mThor dillemma.

entrailbucket

@JoeHandle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@DAZ0273 said:
The worst thing about playing MPQ is waiting for your turn to happen. There is absolutely nothing more muscle twitchingly polarising than watching the enemy Jane (or other characters who delay the players action) explode cascade after cascade firing powers left right and centre and feeling like you are being pummelled without any way to respond. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does I can see how it triggers the rage switch.

So much this.

More than anything else I wish you could just turn off the AI turn entirely. So that right after your turn ends, the board just changed quickly (say 1 second delay tops) to show the updated board after the AI turn (regardless of how long it was) so that you could immediately move again. The delays when facing certain enemies (mindless ones, sentries, sentinels, attack tiles, mThor) are interminable. Being able to turn off the AI turn would help a lot.

And yes, I am aware of what that would do to the PvE race and shield hopping etc. But I don't care. The number of people that matters for is 1-2% of the players (top 10 in any event) and they'd adjust and just learn to twitch even faster.

KGB

I wouldn't mind this at all. I play really fast anyway (mostly out of force of habit at this point) and an instant AI turn would make me even faster. It'd hugely benefit players with more match-3 skill, which is exactly what the game should be rewarding at the high end.

Skillful players being able to snipe cupcakes or multi-snipe single-match hops would upset some folks, though. I'd tell them they should learn to play faster.

The game has gotten MUCH faster over the past 10.5yrs. Even faster should be welcome relief I would think. Sure some would bail out of the merry go'round, but that churn happens anyway. Anyokne exiting is/was likely already just looking for a reason to do so.

Some folks just don't like change, and the previous devs changed so slowly that they ended up cultivating a group of hardcores that want to play the same fights, at the same times, using the same characters, forever and ever.

I'm in favor of shaking things up to keep the game interesting.

ThisisClemFandango

I have read all of your comments, some well reasoned others bordering on confrontional.
I sat here thinking how could I diffuse this situation? Is there something I could contribute to help?
Then I remembered that life is short and we'll all be dead soon and none of this will matter.

Nero

Create a diversity of charachters with usefull kits, not garbage.
For me it's not Mthor or others characters like that are "to good" but why are so many others charachters so insignifiants in the game. Rebalance them and refresh the game.

I'm not sure create a Omega red, or Mthor, make money on it and finally say "nerf" it is the best thing for people that give you money.

entrailbucket

@Nero said:
Create a diversity of charachters with usefull kits, not garbage.
For me it's not Mthor or others characters like that are "to good" but why are so many others charachters so insignifiants in the game. Rebalance them and refresh the game.

I'm not sure create a Omega red, or Mthor, make money on it and finally say "nerf" it is the best thing for people that give you money.

If they made every character in the game as strong as m'Thor, isn't that the same thing as nerfing her? Isn't she the best now because she's better than everyone else?

I'd be fine with balance achieved in this way, it just seems like it'd be a ton of unnecessary work getting there -- you can either buff/redo 100+ characters or nerf/redo 3 or 4.

dianetics

I'm not sure she is the best. She is very strong, but the best? Not so sure...probably not.
She is easily dealt with and Col5 is arguably better than her 1v1.
This isn't a 1v1 game though, but even in pairs she is easily dealt with.

I have a 335 Shaw and he shuts her down completely. Previously, using Col5 and OR shut her teams down as well.

She has no damage reduction, no healing, and no power scaling. By herself she is pretty mid, and if you remove her charged tiles (Chasm or Shaw) she has few benefits.

Compare her to the other nerfs...Chasm, Gambit, or Bishop and you realize she isn't in the same league.

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:
I'm not sure she is the best. She is very strong, but the best? Not so sure...probably not.
She is easily dealt with and Col5 is arguably better than her 1v1.
This isn't a 1v1 game though, but even in pairs she is easily dealt with.

I have a 335 Shaw and he shuts her down completely. Previously, using Col5 and OR shut her teams down as well.

She has no damage reduction, no healing, and no power scaling. By herself she is pretty mid, and if you remove her charged tiles (Chasm or Shaw) she has few benefits.

Compare her to the other nerfs...Chasm, Gambit, or Bishop and you realize she isn't in the same league.

If she's not that good, then why are so many players using her? How many other characters can punch up 100+ levels?
Why are so many players so upset about the mere suggestion of a nerf?

Edit: Actually...I'll leave this here, but forget it. I'm not getting baited into this nonsense again where I'm debating 18 people all making different contradictory arguments.

Daredevil217

@dianetics said:
I'm not sure she is the best. She is very strong, but the best? Not so sure...probably not.
She is easily dealt with and Col5 is arguably better than her 1v1.
This isn't a 1v1 game though, but even in pairs she is easily dealt with.

I have a 335 Shaw and he shuts her down completely. Previously, using Col5 and OR shut her teams down as well.

She has no damage reduction, no healing, and no power scaling. By herself she is pretty mid, and if you remove her charged tiles (Chasm or Shaw) she has few benefits.

Compare her to the other nerfs...Chasm, Gambit, or Bishop and you realize she isn't in the same league.

I’m with you. I don’t think she’s the best character either. But the argument isn’t about how hard she is to beat but how easily she punches up. I do think defense is a big part of ranking a character in this game and is why defensive nuisances like Chasm and Bishop got dealt with and offense only glass cannons like Thorkoye and Polaris have been seen as fine. But defensive annoyance isn’t the end all be all. Why she gets the angst of the vocal minority and not say Shang Chi, Okoye, or Kang who all also punch above their weight class is a whole other question.

Zalasta

Part of the problem with relying on boosted characters is that we have weeks like this week with no interesting characters, and all of them have significant color overlap. I’ve been using non boosted characters all week.

entrailbucket

If I opened PvP and found a wall of Kang, or Okoye, or Colossus, (or Heimdall, or Dr Strange, or Howard the Duck, or anyone else) I'd suggest they be nerfed too.

Everyone I see is using m'Thor every single week, for every single event, so she needs to get knocked down.

If someone replaces her as part of a wall, then they need to get knocked down too. There are way too many characters in this game to have the metagame be dominated by one character or team.

Zalasta

I don’t mind seeing mThor in PvP often as I almost exclusively target those teams. They’re much faster to beat than most of the boosted teams. We just need to have a solid counter at all levels for players without a deep bench.

Hellblazer666

Just do something about Mthor 's blue ability that is really annoying. That Blue Ability can go off like 5-6 times an a row. It's really bad on teams with Polaris and BRB

entrailbucket

@Zalasta said:
I don’t mind seeing mThor in PvP often as I almost exclusively target those teams. They’re much faster to beat than most of the boosted teams. We just need to have a solid counter at all levels for players without a deep bench.

If everyone decided to run a character that had 10HP and died to one hit, that'd be just as bad. I don't care how easy or hard anybody is to beat, I want to play the game to play the game, not to rack up easy points or wins. I want interesting matches against diverse teams.

The wall of m'Thors is just as bad as the wall of Chasms, or the wall of Gambits, or the wall of Okoyes, because they invalidate all the other characters.

Zalasta

We must be seeing different teams due to our levels. I never see a wall of mThor teams. It might be only 1 in 6 or more teams with mThor. It’s far less frequent than it used to be. Then again, I also only play to 500 points.

TheXMan

I think others have mentioned but OR/Colossus already is showing up more and more in PvP. I would much rather play against mThor than that.

Daredevil217

@Hellblazer666 said:
Just do something about Mthor 's blue ability that is really annoying. That Blue Ability can go off like 5-6 times an a row. It's really bad on teams with Polaris and BRB

I think at most it can go off 4 times in a row and that’s pretty rare. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it personally. You’ll get the beginning of the turn proc and then if she happens to fire her blue, red and yellow in the same turn, you’ll get it 3 more times (4 total). The AI doesn’t fire the same power more than once, so that should be the max, though I get it can feel like a lot more.

Godzillafan67

@TheXMan said:
I think others have mentioned but OR/Colossus already is showing up more and more in PvP. I would much rather play against mThor than that.

Ditto. I'm routinely hitting an OR wall where he's paired with Chasm, Colossus, or iHulk.

KGB

@Daredevil217 said:

@Hellblazer666 said:
Just do something about Mthor 's blue ability that is really annoying. That Blue Ability can go off like 5-6 times an a row. It's really bad on teams with Polaris and BRB

I think at most it can go off 4 times in a row and that’s pretty rare. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it personally. You’ll get the beginning of the turn proc and then if she happens to fire her blue, red and yellow in the same turn, you’ll get it 3 more times (4 total). The AI doesn’t fire the same power more than once, so that should be the max, though I get it can feel like a lot more.

Not if you are running her with BrB/Polaris when every one of her powers destroys a ton of protects which triggers tons of Blue/Green AP gain from BrB plus tons more protect tiles to keep the winfinite going.

KGB

Hellblazer666

@KGB said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@Hellblazer666 said:
Just do something about Mthor 's blue ability that is really annoying. That Blue Ability can go off like 5-6 times an a row. It's really bad on teams with Polaris and BRB

I think at most it can go off 4 times in a row and that’s pretty rare. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it personally. You’ll get the beginning of the turn proc and then if she happens to fire her blue, red and yellow in the same turn, you’ll get it 3 more times (4 total). The AI doesn’t fire the same power more than once, so that should be the max, though I get it can feel like a lot more.

Not if you are running her with BrB/Polaris when every one of her powers destroys a ton of protects which triggers tons of Blue/Green AP gain from BrB plus tons more protect tiles to keep the winfinite going.

KGB

exactly I was dealing with that **** earlier today

Philbert101

It’s not a dilemma. And she doesn’t need a nerf or soft counters. Just tweak her passive to not fire on its own every round. Just when she actively fires powers. It’s not as complicated as people are making it.
Captain Marvel has been quietly changed a few times. Shouldn’t be as big of deal as it’s being made.

Mr_F

@Godzillafan67 said:

@TheXMan said:
I think others have mentioned but OR/Colossus already is showing up more and more in PvP. I would much rather play against mThor than that.

Ditto. I'm routinely hitting an OR wall where he's paired with Chasm, Colossus, or iHulk.

OR is weak to Electro. And, cough, cough, mThor. And that is why so far I'm not scared by his presence. Yet.

I'll raise another question: Chasm seems pretty working against her in my test past few days but main concern is his AP drain. He autoshutdown my team with that. Sure, he so far has worked but I am forced to either use OR or Kang etc. with him leading to not what I want from mThor counter. I can slap Electro with another two and still defeat OR while Chasm limits my options here. Also he drain helath packs as he stays healhly only vs anotjer chasm (wchich requires things like OR to kill him).

In broader perspective, Chasm is meta counter here (slows Polaris before she can do the crazy stuff as he nullifies mThor and BRB round start) but she drains joy with AP. His so boring and limited with options. Only plus is that, with Kang I can finally use Gwenom here.

So can we say that Chasm is our answer and move on? IMO nope.