Black King (Sebastian Shaw) 4*

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Comments

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    fight...Fight..FIGHT!

    @entrailbucket, have you used ascended MBaku? Is he good?

    He's INSANE. He's also one of the few that benefits significantly from being 5/5/5, so there's some fun teams to be made there.

    I thought he might be good, somethin to think about, thanks @entrailbucket !

    What if... we actually see even more MThor because she ends up being a great partner to buff Shaw?!? That could be fun. In my experience Chasm already fully spays her anyway, but I do get that she is in 85+% of the teams I see.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,620 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @Mr_F said:
    mThor problem is simple: in the game when ya have to collect "whatver" to fire powers, she is to versitile. She never was to hard to beat. She just collect that "whatever" so easily that she is best partner to everybody.

    On the other hand, I know that if she will be less present somebody instantly will replace her. So I preffer her omipresence in a staple meta when nobody is realy broken. Even if I want her to be nerfed it is so far better if she stays the way she is now.

    Unless devs will come with something surpsising.

    Yeah, if they nerfed her the omega red/collosus teams that flood every lightning round would probably replace all those shang/Jane teams. I'd much rather see the mthor teams all the time.

    MThor plays great with anyone who doesn't rely keeping something on the board, and is fantastic against anyone who does, so yeah, she fits into a lot of teams. For the L/Rs a pain-in-the-butt defensive team is best (Mthor isn't,) so that's why we see so many OR/Col. I agree that if MThor is nerfed, that team will probably become the default pick two, which is so-so.

    I still say that so long as at least two of the boosted 5*s play well together you don't see too much of her. We've just had two consecutive weeks where that just plain has not been the case.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    fight...Fight..FIGHT!

    @entrailbucket, have you used ascended MBaku? Is he good?

    He's INSANE. He's also one of the few that benefits significantly from being 5/5/5, so there's some fun teams to be made there.

    I thought he might be good, somethin to think about, thanks @entrailbucket !

    What if... we actually see even more MThor because she ends up being a great partner to buff Shaw?!? That could be fun. In my experience Chasm already fully spays her anyway, but I do get that she is in 85+% of the teams I see.

    Mine is just a baby but I see the potential and I've used him a bit. That one account that keeps getting posted here has him at 550 but I haven't seen it using him yet.

    I don't think folks will use m'Thor to buff Shaw. I do think that's a viable strategy though! Her problem is that she only makes one charged tile per turn passively, and Shaw wants to eat all your AP. Black Bolt would be good at this, if he wasn't so awful at... everything.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

    How would you describe it? You're constructing a counter-argument to an argument that no one is making.

    Please tell me exactly what my strawman argument was.

    You are the one continually calling for MThor to be nerfed or countered. I never did.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

    How would you describe it? You're constructing a counter-argument to an argument that no one is making.

    Please tell me exactly what my strawman argument was.

    You are the one continually calling for MThor to be nerfed or countered. I never did.

    I don't know why I keep letting myself get baited by the m'Thor Defense Force. She's going away eventually, and it's going to be hilarious. The devs themselves said they're looking at her. It's happening.

    But sure, let's do it -- the strawman you created is "players want m'Thor to be nerfed because they can't win fights against her." Then you countered that (non-existent) argument by saying that she's actually very easy to beat, so they're wrong about wanting her to be nerfed.

    This is the definition of a strawman argument. You made up your own narrative, then countered it.

    I haven't seen anyone anywhere saying that they can't win fights against her. The players I've seen that are asking for a nerf are bored of having to face her over and over again.

    Do you have a counter-argument for that one? Should I just not be bored of only seeing her in PvP?

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

    How would you describe it? You're constructing a counter-argument to an argument that no one is making.

    Please tell me exactly what my strawman argument was.

    You are the one continually calling for MThor to be nerfed or countered. I never did.

    I don't know why I keep letting myself get baited by the m'Thor Defense Force. She's going away eventually, and it's going to be hilarious. The devs themselves said they're looking at her. It's happening.

    But sure, let's do it -- the strawman you created is "players want m'Thor to be nerfed because they can't win fights against her." Then you countered that (non-existent) argument by saying that she's actually very easy to beat, so they're wrong about wanting her to be nerfed.

    This is the definition of a strawman argument. You made up your own narrative, then countered it.

    I haven't seen anyone anywhere saying that they can't win fights against her. The players I've seen that are asking for a nerf are bored of having to face her over and over again.

    Do you have a counter-argument for that one? Should I just not be bored of only seeing her in PvP?

    Do we need to do a quote off? You have been against MT for a long time. For lots of reasons in lots of different threads. I can find them if you want. But you have wanted her nerfed/countered for at least over a year. But your reasons for countering her weren't because you were bored, until recently.

    Please show me any quotes, besides yours, who say they are bored facing her. There are lots of quotes about not wanting to play her because her randomness can beat you. Or she is too powerful. But not because they are bored. Those are your words.

    You make up your own narrative also and decide on the counter for it. So maybe we both put up strawmen?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

    How would you describe it? You're constructing a counter-argument to an argument that no one is making.

    Please tell me exactly what my strawman argument was.

    You are the one continually calling for MThor to be nerfed or countered. I never did.

    I don't know why I keep letting myself get baited by the m'Thor Defense Force. She's going away eventually, and it's going to be hilarious. The devs themselves said they're looking at her. It's happening.

    But sure, let's do it -- the strawman you created is "players want m'Thor to be nerfed because they can't win fights against her." Then you countered that (non-existent) argument by saying that she's actually very easy to beat, so they're wrong about wanting her to be nerfed.

    This is the definition of a strawman argument. You made up your own narrative, then countered it.

    I haven't seen anyone anywhere saying that they can't win fights against her. The players I've seen that are asking for a nerf are bored of having to face her over and over again.

    Do you have a counter-argument for that one? Should I just not be bored of only seeing her in PvP?

    Do we need to do a quote off? You have been against MT for a long time. For lots of reasons in lots of different threads. I can find them if you want. But you have wanted her nerfed/countered for at least over a year. But your reasons for countering her weren't because you were bored, until recently.

    Please show me any quotes, besides yours, who say they are bored facing her. There are lots of quotes about not wanting to play her because her randomness can beat you. Or she is too powerful. But not because they are bored. Those are your words.

    You make up your own narrative also and decide on the counter for it. So maybe we both put up strawmen?

    ...so no answer. Cool! I hope you have a backup plan for when they murder her!

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 836 Critical Contributor

    I just pressed play on the epic fight music from star trek when kirk and spock fight each other.

    Seriously tho guys, chill yeah?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    I just pressed play on the epic fight music from star trek when kirk and spock fight each other.

    Seriously tho guys, chill yeah?

    Pfft, I've been in the trenches of all the MPQ Nerf Wars.

    When I made the first post here suggesting Gambit should get nerfed, some guy kept sending me pictures of severed heads. I got death threats because I supported the Sentry nerf. Heck, I thought True Healing was a good idea.

    This is nothing!

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,273 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    I just pressed play on the epic fight music from star trek when kirk and spock fight each other.

    Seriously tho guys, chill yeah?

    Pfft, I've been in the trenches of all the MPQ Nerf Wars.

    When I made the first post here suggesting Gambit should get nerfed, some guy kept sending me pictures of severed heads. I got death threats because I supported the Sentry nerf. Heck, I thought True Healing was a good idea.

    This is nothing!

    I sincerely hope that when gambit was nerfed you replied to their pm's with a link to the post about his nerf and a pic of whatever the best laughing meme was at the time.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThisisClemFandango said:
    I just pressed play on the epic fight music from star trek when kirk and spock fight each other.

    Seriously tho guys, chill yeah?

    Pfft, I've been in the trenches of all the MPQ Nerf Wars.

    When I made the first post here suggesting Gambit should get nerfed, some guy kept sending me pictures of severed heads. I got death threats because I supported the Sentry nerf. Heck, I thought True Healing was a good idea.

    This is nothing!

    I sincerely hope that when gambit was nerfed you replied to their pm's with a link to the post about his nerf and a pic of whatever the best laughing meme was at the time.

    Eh. Honestly I just don't interact with those people at all. I'll fight you in the game! But people who want to threaten and be weird out of game just aren't worth dealing with. Since then I've configured Line so nobody can message me unless I've added them first.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,629 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I don't think folks will use m'Thor to buff Shaw. I do think that's a viable strategy though! Her problem is that she only makes one charged tile per turn passively, and Shaw wants to eat all your AP. Black Bolt would be good at this, if he wasn't so awful at... everything.

    If you want to exploit his gains you are not doing it through charged tiles. Nobody generates them fast enough.

    Gambit is off the table for him since he needs his purple. I’m still messing around with it but Evo and Vulture show some promise.
    I got 335 Shaw tanking over a 490 Colossus. I did this through massive ap gen and firing his purple.

    I’m still not sure he is a character people will want to build around. If SheThor gets nerfed his value drops drastically.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,795 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 3 April 2024, 13:47

    Man, I can't wait until next month, if the data mining is remotely accurate.....

    Thor won’t be nerfed.

    They’ve sold her to too many people who use her in pve for hard nodes, players who aren’t focused as much on speed. She is incredibly valuable as a part of a winfinite team and she takes out CDs with ease. She’s the most accessible hammer for a lot of nails.

    The game is mostly dependent on vets and many folks who have spent on and chased her will be very frustrated by an actual nerf.

    What if you made a character that punished you for removing their special tiles? What if.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf said:
    Man, I can't wait until next month, if the data mining is remotely accurate.....

    Thor won’t be nerfed.

    They’ve sold her to too many people who use her in pve for hard nodes, players who aren’t focused as much on speed. She is incredibly valuable as a part of a winfinite team and she takes out CDs with ease. She’s the most accessible hammer for a lot of nails.

    The game is mostly dependent on vets and many folks who have spent on and chased her will be very frustrated by an actual nerf.

    What if you made a character that punished you for removing their special tiles? What if.

    The "people will get mad about it" argument has never stopped them before, probably because veteran players have never quit in significant numbers as a result of a nerf or change.

    The character you're talking about already exists, sorta! 4* Deadpool punishes her for removing his CD tiles. It works pretty well against her, but so does basically everything else, and she still stomps all over him when she's on offense.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,222 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @bluewolf said:
    Man, I can't wait until next month, if the data mining is remotely accurate.....

    Thor won’t be nerfed.

    They’ve sold her to too many people who use her in pve for hard nodes, players who aren’t focused as much on speed. She is incredibly valuable as a part of a winfinite team and she takes out CDs with ease. She’s the most accessible hammer for a lot of nails.

    The game is mostly dependent on vets and many folks who have spent on and chased her will be very frustrated by an actual nerf.

    What if you made a character that punished you for removing their special tiles? What if.

    The "people will get mad about it" argument has never stopped them before, probably because veteran players have never quit in significant numbers as a result of a nerf or change.

    The character you're talking about already exists, sorta! 4* Deadpool punishes her for removing his CD tiles. It works pretty well against her, but so does basically everything else, and she still stomps all over him when she's on offense.

    Deadpool takes a while to get his out and his power only protects his CD's.

    Realistically, you need a support that punishes the enemy for removing/matching friendly specials. That way it can be deployed on ALL teams against her. If it's only a single character power, then only teams with that character matter while all other teams don't. We need a support with this power and we need supports in PvP.

    KGB

  • MgoBlue51
    MgoBlue51 Posts: 111 Tile Toppler
    edited 3 April 2024, 19:57

    I was thinking a character that acted like a defensive Polaris would work. If you destroy my special tiles, put out more and cause damage. That could be exploited on offense using normal Polaris and mthor as well, so shield sim would remain a lot of her.

    I admit, she's boring. I only skip her when points are just super low, but she's relatively easy to beat. I don't play LR very often, so I don't run into OR/Colossus often, but goose and/or electro can help against SOME of that.

    I think my issue is more about how no one counters her, at least not until shaw. The game becomes a lot less strategy, a lot less chess, and more about brute force/speed whenever you face her. I don't want her nerfed, I just wish there were more variety. I know when one meta leaves, another follows... So this is merely a dream.

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