Black King (Sebastian Shaw) 4*

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  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    I can never remember these things: when can we favorite Shaw?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    I'll still run MT/SC. It was never about their defense so I don't really care if others can hit them.

    I was more concerned about whether you can consistently win on offense with her, in THIS event where he's on 100% of enemy teams and also on your team.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,727 Chairperson of the Boards

    I run Dr. Thor, but I don't leave her out on defense. I also fully expect all the retals.

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:
    I'll still run MT/SC. It was never about their defense so I don't really care if others can hit them.

    I was more concerned about whether you can consistently win on offense with her, in THIS event where he's on 100% of enemy teams and also on your team.

    I would think the majority still be low leveled or even the loaner will still make Thor consistent enough. However if both players have just a few levels on his purple she will definitely struggle with much less charge tiles on the board.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @tiomono said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:
    I'll still run MT/SC. It was never about their defense so I don't really care if others can hit them.

    I was more concerned about whether you can consistently win on offense with her, in THIS event where he's on 100% of enemy teams and also on your team.

    I would think the majority still be low leveled or even the loaner will still make Thor consistent enough. However if both players have just a few levels on his purple she will definitely struggle with much less charge tiles on the board.

    That's what I was thinking -- Shaw will eat charged tiles on the enemies' turn but also on yours. I was curious about whether she's so strong that she can deal with that situation.

    I guess if everybody is using the loaner then it doesn't matter, though.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,795 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    I can never remember these things: when can we favorite Shaw?

    Starting April 4 when the new season begins, if the past pattern holds.

  • Scorpion201
    Scorpion201 Posts: 66 Match Maker

    Shaw is great, buts what the ideal build for him 5/5/3 against the likes of mthor, Polaris etc and 5/3/5 against non charged users?

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 836 Critical Contributor

    I'd run him 553, may pair him with a level booster to get the 555 but depends on synergy.
    Bit underwhelmed with his green but his black and purple are amazing.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 296 Mover and Shaker
    edited 26 March 2024, 21:24

    I think it should be 5/5/3 as well. There are fringe cases where you can pair Shaw with the carnage types. If Shaw is on the right of center would that double dip if carnage is on the left?

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    IMO, he proves a simple thing: how busted mThor is. We already have counters for her but apparently - and may be wrong - that wasn't enough. I have tested him after I already has champed him and mThor just became a match-bot. And he is even better counter to Shang Chi than P5Collosus.

    It was wise to release such strong counter to her as 4* as that is a perfect solution to a problem: how to release a counter without making countered character instantly obsolete. If he was 5* that would make mThor totally inreveleant but as a 4* he can be easily defeated in 5* land unless ascended - which will take some time to happen.

    So I predict that before he will shift something in meta/mThor omnipresence, some long time will pass.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,727 Chairperson of the Boards

    Dr. Thor is a glass cannon. I immediately target her when I see her in PvP.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    I saw a ton of her, but almost everyone is running the loaner Shaw. That probably explains it.

    I do wonder whether she can win fights at all on offense against a covered/levelled one (nobody tried to hit mine with her).

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Borstock said:
    Dr. Thor is a glass cannon. I immediately target her when I see her in PvP.

    There's a million ways to beat her, but currently she can also trivially beat any team in the game.

    I'm interested in whether she can beat Shaw. I already know he can beat her -- that's not interesting, because ANYBODY can beat her.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,795 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 27 March 2024, 02:01

    If you were insisting on taking Thor against Shaw, I would probably bring Riri or Colossus as the second. Are we talking pick 2 or 3 here?

    One on one it’d be hard…you’d have to ap boost, save up ap to nuke and maybe you could do it.

    He’s interesting because he’s effective but will take a lot of damage building up the hits, so even if you win you’re using a health pack. Offense is terrible until he’s been hit a lot.

    Seems tricky for AI to use well since I’m not even sure exactly what to do in what order….he’s always burning match dmg.

    Cheap nukes are the key against him.

    Would be funny to bring Phylla and Moondragon against him.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Borstock said:
    Dr. Thor is a glass cannon. I immediately target her when I see her in PvP.

    There's a million ways to beat her, but currently she can also trivially beat any team in the game.

    I'm interested in whether she can beat Shaw. I already know he can beat her -- that's not interesting, because ANYBODY can beat her.

    I'm running some test and my answer is :YES. My champed, lv 272 & 20k health Shaw has so far never survived a fight against her. And I brought Crystal and/or Collossus with him to kee alive longer. With that much charged tiles he eventually gest enough match damage and starts tanking colors and board can force ya to keep him there via no other matches avaible than his. And then he starts taking damage and, just as I said previosly, he dies pretty fast.

    The problem of mThor is not how to beat her but what she can beat. And the answer is: almost everything and most circumstances. And IMO that will change when we start seeing more and more of ascended Shaw.

    But I am still far away from definite answers here. Just few fights I did is too small pool. I could be just unlucky. Times will show us.

    @Bzhai That too. Good point.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,629 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I saw a ton of her, but almost everyone is running the loaner Shaw. That probably explains it.

    I do wonder whether she can win fights at all on offense against a covered/levelled one (nobody tried to hit mine with her).

    She can't really do much when he is around. I have a 280 running with Emma and Omega Red and pretty much cruising through all SheThor teams. He basically shuts her down, once he gets a lot of levels maybe 350 range or ascended she is going to have a lot of trouble when he is around.

    Side note his green scales really well, but unless you can keep him in the back it isn't doing anything busted or broken. So as far as that goes keep him 553.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    @dianetics said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I saw a ton of her, but almost everyone is running the loaner Shaw. That probably explains it.

    I do wonder whether she can win fights at all on offense against a covered/levelled one (nobody tried to hit mine with her).

    She can't really do much when he is around. I have a 280 running with Emma and Omega Red and pretty much cruising through all SheThor teams. He basically shuts her down, once he gets a lot of levels maybe 350 range or ascended she is going to have a lot of trouble when he is around.

    Side note his green scales really well, but unless you can keep him in the back it isn't doing anything busted or broken. So as far as that goes keep him 553.

    In pick 2 propably any boosterd 5* does not have problem with her. Focus her and she is down fast. In simulator, that is a diffirent story.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,629 Chairperson of the Boards

    I just ran about 5 simulators looking for her and left her for last each time. She just can't get anything off, and when she does the damage is pretty low. Since he is converting charged tiles and not destroying them her red doesn't get ridiculous and her yellow tickles.

    As long as you are picking your team correctly Shaw will make her pretty much useless and you just have to pick partners to take out the other two effectively.
    Once he gets big its going to be even more trouble for her since he wont get nuked down in a few turns.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    I had different expierence in that. I won all the times but he ended dead everytime and mThor or whatever did some nasty damage to him. I just couldn't make him stay in back and while he was in front he died easily. But as I said before, I could be just unlucky and just mine 2-3 fights proves nothing here. I have to do some more testing before I can made my mind here.

    What were you running, BTW?

    But still, overall he is well designed and nice addition.

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