Black King (Sebastian Shaw) 4*

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Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,795 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Zalasta said:
    Maybe they'll come out with a 5-star that also counters mThor. It would make sense to bring out the 4-star first. Not really holding out much hope though.

    Don’t give up hope yet! But definitely not this week’s. Maybe next month.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:
    Any boosted 5 star will kill her pretty fast by using her charged tiles. With the 3x match damage and 3x ap, match damage plus powers will have her dead fast. She's a glass canon.

    Totally agree. I don't quite understand all the 5* players who seem scared to face her. Does she sometimes cascade so much that you lose immediately? Yes. But maybe once every 10 matches? 20? She is nowhere near the unstoppable forces that 5Gambit, 5Chasm or 4Bishop were "once upon a time".

    She is very, very, very beatable buy a large number of teams. The AI has no idea what order to fire her powers off that make the most sense. For 4* players facing her, I get the frustration that can be there. But for 5* players, I really do not understand all the calls for nerfing her or needing a counter at all.

  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor

    We've come a long way when 5 mthor is what people are complaining about.

    The meta is probably the most balanced it's ever been

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    In one of the Q&As recently, they said they were looking at her for balance purposes. I expect that they'll do like they did with Chasm -- release a bunch of characters attempting to counter her, and if those fail they'll nerf her.

    Shaw is the first attempt, and it's a pretty obvious one. They're clearly paying attention. Now we just have to wait. After Chasm, I have a lot of faith in their ability and willingness to address these types of issues.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 1 April 2024, 16:39

    @entrailbucket said:
    Nobody is scared to face her. We're bored of facing her in every single fight.

    We don't need a character who can beat her -- that's literally everyone. We need a character that she can't beat, so other players will have to switch teams occasionally and we can get some variety back in the metagame.

    Who's bored? You? You say "we're bored of facing her".

    Has there been a poll about who is bored about facing her? I don't mind facing her at all BECAUSE of how beatable she is.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Nobody is scared to face her. We're bored of facing her in every single fight.

    We don't need a character who can beat her -- that's literally everyone. We need a character that she can't beat, so other players will have to switch teams occasionally and we can get some variety back in the metagame.

    Who's bored? You? You say "we're bored of facing her".

    Has there been a poll about who is bored about facing her? I don't mind facing her at all BECAUSE of how beatable she is.

    That's fine, and you're entitled to your opinion. You asked about players who wanted her fixed and I explained why I, and some others, want her fixed. No one has trouble beating her -- that's a strawman being used to dismiss a legitimate argument about variety.

    I think there's a pretty good chance that the devs agree, btw, because they watch usage pretty closely and they've cited it recently. I don't think they want MPQ to be completely dominated by a single character.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 1 April 2024, 16:50

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Nobody is scared to face her. We're bored of facing her in every single fight.

    We don't need a character who can beat her -- that's literally everyone. We need a character that she can't beat, so other players will have to switch teams occasionally and we can get some variety back in the metagame.

    Who's bored? You? You say "we're bored of facing her".

    Has there been a poll about who is bored about facing her? I don't mind facing her at all BECAUSE of how beatable she is.

    That's fine, and you're entitled to your opinion. You asked about players who wanted her fixed and I explained why I, and some others, want her fixed. No one has trouble beating her -- that's a strawman being used to dismiss a legitimate argument about variety.

    I think there's a pretty good chance that the devs agree, btw, because they watch usage pretty closely and they've cited it recently. I don't think they want MPQ to be completely dominated by a single character.

    All I was pointing at here was your use of "we're bored facing her". Just because you and others are bored facing her doesn't mean that everyone is or that the devs should bow to your whims.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Nobody is scared to face her. We're bored of facing her in every single fight.

    We don't need a character who can beat her -- that's literally everyone. We need a character that she can't beat, so other players will have to switch teams occasionally and we can get some variety back in the metagame.

    Who's bored? You? You say "we're bored of facing her".

    Has there been a poll about who is bored about facing her? I don't mind facing her at all BECAUSE of how beatable she is.

    That's fine, and you're entitled to your opinion. You asked about players who wanted her fixed and I explained why I, and some others, want her fixed. No one has trouble beating her -- that's a strawman being used to dismiss a legitimate argument about variety.

    I think there's a pretty good chance that the devs agree, btw, because they watch usage pretty closely and they've cited it recently. I don't think they want MPQ to be completely dominated by a single character.

    All I was pointing at here was your use of "we're bored facing her". Just because you and others are bored facing her doesn't mean that everyone is or that the devs should bow to your whims.

    I don't think the devs require a unanimous player vote before making changes. Tons of players on here wanted Chasm kept the same, and the devs overruled them.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker

    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,430 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    You guys are so weird about this character.

    The other reason I'd enjoy seeing her nerfed or countered into irrelevance is personal -- the dedicated m'Thor users/defenders get SO defensive and worked up about her that I really just want bad things to happen to them. The Gambit people were pretty close, but even they gave up eventually.

    I'm not sure whether the party I have for her nerf will be bigger and more extravagant than the day they killed cupcakes (that one was great!) or the day they killed Gambit, or Bishop, or Chasm, but it'll probably be close!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    Weird thing is, didn't even have a strawman. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

    You asked why players would want her nerfed when she's so beatable. The call for a nerf or counter has nothing to do with whether she's beatable, and nobody anywhere is complaining that they can't beat her. The people complaining are sick of seeing her in every fight.

    That's not a strawman. I'm thinking your definition of a strawman is not what an actual strawman is. But go ahead and you do you.

    How would you describe it? You're constructing a counter-argument to an argument that no one is making.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker

    fight...Fight..FIGHT!

    @entrailbucket, have you used ascended MBaku? Is he good?

    Shaw seems interesting.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Zarqa said:
    EB calling someone else out for using a Strawman fallacy?!? Oh wait, it’s April Fools day. Good one Bucket! 😉

    You guys are so weird about this character.

    I made no comment about this character, so you shouldn’t assume how I feel about him. I was simply trying to be cheeky about your rhetorical techniques that are on display here frequently.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,784 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:
    fight...Fight..FIGHT!

    @entrailbucket, have you used ascended MBaku? Is he good?

    He's INSANE. He's also one of the few that benefits significantly from being 5/5/5, so there's some fun teams to be made there.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    mThor problem is simple: in the game when ya have to collect "whatver" to fire powers, she is to versitile. She never was to hard to beat. She just collect that "whatever" so easily that she is best partner to everybody.

    On the other hand, I know that if she will be less present somebody instantly will replace her. So I preffer her omipresence in a staple meta when nobody is realy broken. Even if I want her to be nerfed it is so far better if she stays the way she is now.

    Unless devs will come with something surpsising.

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