*****Victor Mancha (Victorious)*****

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  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Blackstone said:
    My wife showed me a TikTok of this lady trying to make a casserole... But she added a twist to every step/ingredient that made it more difficult for her to prepare the dish, while simultaneously making the dish look less appetizing... It was one of those "everyone's so creative" posts.

    Sooooo.. do you have a photo of this woman's casserole or what?

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 603 Critical Contributor

    Negative Ghost Ri....I mean, Punisher, I do not.

    However... This character traded in his preppy sweater for a Black bolt cosplay outfit, but people think he's Syndrome from the Incredibles.

    Similarly, the casserole claimed to be one thing, and appeared to be a knock-off version of something else.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 6 February 2024, 19:13

    I don't think this guy is bad at all. He's not "meta," if that's all you're concerned about, but all his abilities are cheap and seem to do decent damage for the cost.

    The biggest issue is that he does a bunch of stuff that's not super useful in the current metagame. He locks special tiles (all of which are totally irrelevant due to m'Thor), he reduces the strength of enemy protect tiles (same), and he does damage that scales based on enemy special tiles (same) and how many of his shrapnel tiles are out (see above).

    Characters that depend on putting stuff on the board, or the enemy putting stuff on the board, are just not going to do much when the metagame is dominated by a character who destroys the entire board every turn while targeting special tiles.

    PS: none of this means he'll be useless forever. Metagames change, and there's no reason we can't swing back to a special tile meta at some point in the future. I wouldn't skip him.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:
    Characters that depend on putting stuff on the board, or the enemy putting stuff on the board, are just not going to do much when the metagame is dominated by a character who destroys the entire board every turn while targeting special tiles.

    Unless they have a cheap stun.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 6 February 2024, 20:06

    @entrailbucket said:
    I don't think this guy is bad at all. He's not "meta," if that's all you're concerned about, but all his abilities are cheap and seem to do decent damage for the cost.

    The biggest issue is that he does a bunch of stuff that's not super useful in the current metagame. He locks special tiles (all of which are totally irrelevant due to m'Thor), he reduces the strength of enemy protect tiles (same), and he does damage that scales based on enemy special tiles (same) and how many of his shrapnel tiles are out (see above).

    Characters that depend on putting stuff on the board, or the enemy putting stuff on the board, are just not going to do much when the metagame is dominated by a character who destroys the entire board every turn while targeting special tiles.

    PS: none of this means he'll be useless forever. Metagames change, and there's no reason we can't swing back to a special tile meta at some point in the future. I wouldn't skip him.

    It sorta sounds like you're suggesting nerfing someone.

    If not we need a character who basically counters Mthor extremely hard, and would need to be run every time with Vicmach to make him useful whenever you face the extremely common team with Mthor. Say, someone who at 450 did 6K passive dmg per turn against the enemy team whenever charged tiles were out. Or every time you destroyed a special tile on your turn, you took like 5K dmg when they were at 450. Or maybe just stunned you every time you destroyed a special, that could do it.

    The meta will not shift without one of these things happening, or someone who does so much dmg passively that you just leave Jane on the bench, since she's been outclassed. Like say, an Omega analog with 2x dmg or something, and not relying on a CD that can be destroyed so there's no counterplay. Someone who basically just always wins and there's nothing you can really do about it.

    Unless I'm not imaginative enough to see how you shift the meta back to "specials matter" enough to make Vicmach someone you need to have more than baby champed.

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards

    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    @tiomono said:
    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

    I don't think anybody "owns" charged tiles, but maybe?

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 6 February 2024, 20:33

    @bluewolf said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I don't think this guy is bad at all. He's not "meta," if that's all you're concerned about, but all his abilities are cheap and seem to do decent damage for the cost.

    The biggest issue is that he does a bunch of stuff that's not super useful in the current metagame. He locks special tiles (all of which are totally irrelevant due to m'Thor), he reduces the strength of enemy protect tiles (same), and he does damage that scales based on enemy special tiles (same) and how many of his shrapnel tiles are out (see above).

    Characters that depend on putting stuff on the board, or the enemy putting stuff on the board, are just not going to do much when the metagame is dominated by a character who destroys the entire board every turn while targeting special tiles.

    PS: none of this means he'll be useless forever. Metagames change, and there's no reason we can't swing back to a special tile meta at some point in the future. I wouldn't skip him.

    It sorta sounds like you're suggesting nerfing someone.

    If not we need a character who basically counters Mthor extremely hard, and would need to be run every time with Vicmach to make him useful whenever you face the extremely common team with Mthor. Say, someone who at 450 did 6K passive dmg per turn against the enemy team whenever charged tiles were out. Or every time you destroyed a special tile on your turn, you took like 5K dmg when they were at 450. Or maybe just stunned you every time you destroyed a special, that could do it.

    The meta will not shift without one of these things happening, or someone who does so much dmg passively that you just leave Jane on the bench, since she's been outclassed. Like say, an Omega analog with 2x dmg or something, and not relying on a CD that can be destroyed so there's no counterplay. Someone who basically just always wins and there's nothing you can really do about it.

    Unless I'm not imaginative enough to see how you shift the meta back to "specials matter" enough to make Vicmach someone you need to have more than baby champed.

    What about a character that could absorb charged tiles?

    Power 1 passive: each turn removes 1 charged tile from the board storing its energy.
    Power 2 active: removes up to 4 charged tiles from the board dealing damage for each and storing their energy.
    Power 3 active: deals damage based on stored energy and creates 2 charged tiles.

    We bring back the terror of Bishop. 5* 3* Bishop.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @tiomono said:
    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

    Almost certainly not. Agnostic tiles (ones that don't belong to either player, such as charged, web, void, etc.) aren't targeted by things that go for (or prefer) "special" tiles.

    If we see a Polaris meta arise Victor may be a good antidote to it, but MThor is, as others said, the best answer to pretty much anyone who relies on tiles on the board.

    Though... MThor plays badly when you want to keep tiles on the board ( Omega Red anyone?) so we may see some shifts in the future -- who knows? Metas shift, speed rules above all and a faster team may edge out MThor at some point.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    @GrimSkald said:

    @tiomono said:
    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

    Almost certainly not. Agnostic tiles (ones that don't belong to either player, such as charged, web, void, etc.) aren't targeted by things that go for (or prefer) "special" tiles.

    If we see a Polaris meta arise Victor may be a good antidote to it, but MThor is, as others said, the best answer to pretty much anyone who relies on tiles on the board.

    Though... MThor plays badly when you want to keep tiles on the board ( Omega Red anyone?) so we may see some shifts in the future -- who knows? Metas shift, speed rules above all and a faster team may edge out MThor at some point.

    It's going to be really difficult because so many players have gone all in on the current metagame. Say they release some new powerful guy -- that guy has to be better at 450 than the current guys are when they're maxed out or nearly maxed out, or nobody will even find out!

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards

    I’m not sure about that. I think most people know that Gator Loki and Cosmo are pretty great counters to Thor whether they have them at 550 or not. It’s just that getting them to 550 would take forever. But if you really hate Thor, you can always go that route. Or beg for a nerf. Or, wait for the meta to shift as it always does.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    I’m not sure about that. I think most people know that Gator Loki and Cosmo are pretty great counters to Thor whether they have them at 550 or not. It’s just that getting them to 550 would take forever. But if you really hate Thor, you can always go that route. Or beg for a nerf. Or, wait for the meta to shift as it always does.

    The metagame does always shift! What typically causes that? Chasm/Hulk just disappeared because they released a new overpowered guy? Okoye/Hulk went away because Scarlet Witch/Colossus was more powerful?

  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    edited 6 February 2024, 22:31

    @entrailbucket said:

    @tiomono said:
    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

    I don't think anybody "owns" charged tiles, but maybe?

    They are "owned" in some aspect. 4* Gamora will count purple charged tiles created by her teammates as "friendly special tiles" for the auto-downing passive of her black.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    I’m not sure about that. I think most people know that Gator Loki and Cosmo are pretty great counters to Thor whether they have them at 550 or not. It’s just that getting them to 550 would take forever. But if you really hate Thor, you can always go that route. Or beg for a nerf. Or, wait for the meta to shift as it always does.

    Despite her becoming the ubiquitous use no matter what else is out there solution, she isn't getting nerfed. The meta will shift. But it will be a while. Until it does those who like using her in every match will be able to do so. After it does she'll still be S tier. Until then she will be clogging up every PvP.

    It won't shift until they release a character that is a hard counter to her. Hopefully that happens sooner than later. Something that punishes all passives would work, something that hits back hard when tiles are destroyed rather than matched would work too.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 836 Critical Contributor

    I can only hope that a dev will stop by and clarify whether charged tiles are included

    Hahahahahahahaha I'm sorry I tried so hard to keep it together, I'm very funny.

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,452 Chairperson of the Boards

    How good would he be with beta Polaris

    Or them Polaris and someone
    His store sort of sucks. Maybe when he goes to ll

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards

    @MoosePrime said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @tiomono said:
    Do charged tiles count as enemy special tiles for the purpose of locking? If so you won't get a cheap stun vs drThor but you may be able to slow her roll.

    I don't think anybody "owns" charged tiles, but maybe?

    They are "owned" in some aspect. 4* Gamora will count purple charged tiles created by her teammates as "friendly special tiles" for the auto-downing passive of her black.

    And I learned something today.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 7 February 2024, 00:47

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    I’m not sure about that. I think most people know that Gator Loki and Cosmo are pretty great counters to Thor whether they have them at 550 or not. It’s just that getting them to 550 would take forever. But if you really hate Thor, you can always go that route. Or beg for a nerf. Or, wait for the meta to shift as it always does.

    The metagame does always shift! What typically causes that? Chasm/Hulk just disappeared because they released a new overpowered guy? Okoye/Hulk went away because Scarlet Witch/Colossus was more powerful?

    Thorkoye went away because IHulk AOE was a great counter and Thor couldn’t “hide”.

    Okoye/Hulk then dominated the meta but were countered by Steel Witch. Idk that they are more powerful overall. But they are head to head. I use OG Thor and Okoye (two of the very best in PVE) way more than I do Steel Witch. Hard to say Steel Witch are “more OP”.

    I don’t believe they ever released a counter to this team that worked. I think the meta just shifted because a more powerful character was released.

    Chasm/Ihulk dominated and SEVERAL obvious counters were released. None of them worked. So he was nerfed.

    The oppressive meta was taken down and replaced with another glass cannon meta (similar to Thorkoye).

    So the meta will shift in any of the following ways:

    1. They will release a hard counter for Jane Thor like they did Gladiator Thor (not hard to do… several suggestions have been made).

    2. They will release a character more powerful than Thor like they did Steel Witch (with power creep I believe this is inevitable).

    3. Enough people will whine and they will nerf Thor (definitely possible but I don’t see it happening before 1 and 2 above we had like 9 counters to Chasm before they finally reworked him. 0 for Thor. And other than you talking about it in multiple threads, the complaints from players are nowhere near chasm levels).

    Whatever happens, the meta will shift and I’m ready to ride whatever wave is next. Should be fun!!

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf said:

    If not we need a character who basically counters Mthor extremely hard, and would need to be run every time with Vicmach to make him useful whenever you face the extremely common team with Mthor. Say, someone who at 450 did 6K passive dmg per turn against the enemy team whenever charged tiles were out.

    Ascend your Lockjaw, he does 6885 passive damage at 455 to the front enemy if there is a strongest color charged tile present.

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