Character Rebalance Survey for 2024

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThisisClemFandango said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThisisClemFandango said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DrClever said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I want a mode where I fight YOU. I want to take your points away and demoralize you and make you feel bad and stop you from getting rewards.

    Do you? I mean do you actually know who you are fighting? And care?

    It has genuinely never occurred to me.

    I'm with you on what sort of battles PvP should be, I'd just never considered that there was that sort of fun to be had from it.

    Are there players you'd seek out to fight even if it was likely to be dull or difficult?

    I cannot say this strongly enough -- ABSOLUTELY YES, to all three of your questions.

    I absolutely know who I'm fighting and I absolutely care. I target players I don't like, and I'm positive they don't like me either. I've had multi-year wars with many, many players. I enjoy those battles whether I win or lose, because competition is fun. I'm going to keep coming for them forever. I never forget names.

    Their defensive team or point level has no impact on this. If I need to dump 500 of my own points to make an attack hurt them more, I'll do that in a second.

    Some events start off boring because I can't find someone I don't like. In that case I'll do my absolute best to pick a fight with someone random and make a new enemy.

    You frighten me

    I'm really not particularly scary anymore, compared to the old days, and at my absolute peak I was maybe the 18th scariest player in my alliance.

    Everyone used to play this way though. Huge alliance wars were relatively common. People fought over ownership of each slice. We've lost all the competition and hatred and spite and it's really sad.

    Yeah...the loss of hatred and spite is sorely missing.
    Anyone else think it won't be long before eb is on the news "he has killed and sadly will kill again"

    I'm doing Jury service at the moment, I will let you know if his name comes up (after the case was decided of course or else I am going to jail!!!)

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Also, don't worry - if you have no idea what bucket just wrote, you don't have to worry about it, ever.
    At best you're a "random" and will not be targeted.

    Sometimes a "random" will sufficiently annoy me that I decide to do something about it, but the problem there is that they're unlikely to decipher the message I'm trying to send them, or even be aware that I'm sending a message.

    This is all in-game behavior, btw -- communication is handled through patterns of attacks. Players who send threats and other nonsense through Line or any other method are unhinged weirdos.

    In 9 years of playing I've only had someone contact me about pvp outside of the game once. Dude replied to one of my comments on the forum accusing me of "sniping" him because I happened to hit him while he was shield hopping.

    I was like lol dude, I couldn't even see if you were shielded or not, I just hit anyone worth good points that isn't an alliance mate.

    I’ve been contacted a LOT. And it’s never personal because I don’t look at names or even alliance. So I’ve also hit people in my family. I don’t play for placement, just progression. But yeah I’ve been kicked out of rooms and DMmed for my style of play (shrugs).

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Also, don't worry - if you have no idea what bucket just wrote, you don't have to worry about it, ever.
    At best you're a "random" and will not be targeted.

    Sometimes a "random" will sufficiently annoy me that I decide to do something about it, but the problem there is that they're unlikely to decipher the message I'm trying to send them, or even be aware that I'm sending a message.

    This is all in-game behavior, btw -- communication is handled through patterns of attacks. Players who send threats and other nonsense through Line or any other method are unhinged weirdos.

    Yeah I was going to comment on this. The funny thing is they are actually beating you. You may come ahead on points but the fact that they can trigger you to that level means that they’ve already “won” so to speak. I don’t mind going 50 wins. I’m pleasantly surprised when I get an easy climb and do 1200 points instead. But either way, I get to my goal. And even if I were attacked every step of the way, I’ll still get there (maybe it’s wins-based that killed cutthroat PvP comp?). Just like I don’t look at who I hit, I don’t bother to look at who hits me either. The numbers pop up and I hit next and keep playing. So while I’ve clearly lived rent free in a lot of players’ heads, it isn’t intentional. But I don’t know that other players have ever impacted me like that.

    Edit: processing this, I wonder if this was part of me being booted. Since I don’t allow people to “punish” me in game (because I don’t care) the person tried to punish me a different way (shrugs again).

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @Daredevil217 what an unbelievably sad, mind-numbingly boring way to engage with what is one of the most fun and exciting games I've ever played! If other players have this sort of attitude, I can understand why PvP is unpopular, and why all the suggestions end up being "turn it into PvE" -- that's already how it's being played.

    Removing all possibility of strategy and tactics, player interaction, and metagaming skill (not your team, that's boring. I'm talking about speed, point manipulation and coordination) would completely destroy the game for me.

    As to your play style, it actually sounds massively antisocial in practice, in a way that I can appreciate. You are basically indistinguishable from me, except I'm doing this on purpose. It's no wonder that you've been contacted out of game! Other players who know the game's social mores will assume that you're being a jerk, like me.

    If you've been doing this for a long time, it's likely that you were too small to be of concern during the old days when people still tried. Otherwise they'd have made the game completely unplayable for you, and you'd have deserved it!

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    "Competitive" PvP died when they added the wins qualifier.

    In the long, long ago snipers could affect progression as well as placement. You'd have people jumping into different slices having little wars to keep this alliance or that line group from getting their CP.

    Once you could just get there with a predetermined #of wins any agency the snipers had went away.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards

    I play exactly like Daredevil. Zero idea that there is any meta game out there beyond just beating the next team I attack in PvP and just attacking anything that gives decent points for low risk and happy to grind out the 25 wins for the 1000 point reward if necessary. The only reason I probably don't get contacted like he does is because my in game name is not my Forum name.

    I suspect that 99% of players playing PvP are doing this. There is just no way for players to know there is anything else out there besides treating PvP like PvE. My guess is only the people who were playing from the dawn of the game know any better because they were always the advanced rosters and were the early adapters of PvP. It's also unlikely to ever change from this either unless PvP undergoes some major revamp that helps promote rivalries etc.

    KGB

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 852 Critical Contributor

    Yep I'm in the same boat as Daredevil and KGB, I know how important my decisions are for you forumites

  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor

    The most fun I’ve ever had in this game is PVP and inherent rivalries admixed with a bit of drama.

    This is why I advocate for the entire overhaul of the alliance tab to not have to lean on LINE or discord for coordinated attacks. I have long since deleted those apps from my phone.

    Like EB said earlier, the message can certainly be obtained just from back and forth taps, but that message is clearer for some as we all know the top alliances and most of the mates in them.

    PvP is what sets this game apart and certainly the only one that can be thrilling if you are open to the competition within.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 603 Critical Contributor

    @DrClever said:
    I think the best fun I can get from this is assuming that someone is having a simmering feud with me that I'm completely unaware of.

    Lol....

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,963 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:
    I play exactly like Daredevil. Zero idea that there is any meta game out there beyond just beating the next team I attack in PvP and just attacking anything that gives decent points for low risk and happy to grind out the 25 wins for the 1000 point reward if necessary. The only reason I probably don't get contacted like he does is because my in game name is not my Forum name.

    I suspect that 99% of players playing PvP are doing this. There is just no way for players to know there is anything else out there besides treating PvP like PvE. My guess is only the people who were playing from the dawn of the game know any better because they were always the advanced rosters and were the early adapters of PvP. It's also unlikely to ever change from this either unless PvP undergoes some major revamp that helps promote rivalries etc.

    KGB

    Well, if you're attacking other players like you then you wouldn't be contacted, nor would anyone even care, because they won't notice who's hitting them either.

    It's very difficult to treat PvP like PvP at lower levels, because I assume you guys are all getting attacked a ton, at random, all the time. I don't typically feel bad about attacking lower level players for relatively small points -- I just figure my hits will end up part of a giant "...and others" -500, and my name won't even show up.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,470 Chairperson of the Boards

    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:
    I play exactly like Daredevil. Zero idea that there is any meta game out there beyond just beating the next team I attack in PvP and just attacking anything that gives decent points for low risk and happy to grind out the 25 wins for the 1000 point reward if necessary. The only reason I probably don't get contacted like he does is because my in game name is not my Forum name.

    I suspect that 99% of players playing PvP are doing this. There is just no way for players to know there is anything else out there besides treating PvP like PvE. My guess is only the people who were playing from the dawn of the game know any better because they were always the advanced rosters and were the early adapters of PvP. It's also unlikely to ever change from this either unless PvP undergoes some major revamp that helps promote rivalries etc.

    KGB

    Well, if you're attacking other players like you then you wouldn't be contacted, nor would anyone even care, because they won't notice who's hitting them either.

    It's very difficult to treat PvP like PvP at lower levels, because I assume you guys are all getting attacked a ton, at random, all the time. I don't typically feel bad about attacking lower level players for relatively small points -- I just figure my hits will end up part of a giant "...and others" -500, and my name won't even show up.

    At least for me it's the opposite (S5 by the way). I'm almost never attacked 'live' until I break MMR and get hit by the really strong rosters. If I start a day or so before an event ends, I usually climb to 575 or so at which point I'm normally T25 and my skips only show really strong teams that would use a health pack so I stop. Then I don't do anything for 12-24 hrs and when I come back I'll see hits from the strong rosters and I'll be down to 400ish. Then I finish my climb to 1000/25 wins. The only time I'm ever hit live is if I somehow break MMR during day 1 when I'm going to 575 or late in the event (last 1-4 hrs) once I cross 900ish at which point I've definitely broken MMR again and it's a race to get that last 100 points vs 25 wins.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,963 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

    If anything I'm underselling the extent of the Deep State PvP Illuminati. How do you think the guys at the top of your bracket are scoring 3500 or 5000 points every event? At least I'm not one of THOSE people!

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 852 Critical Contributor

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

    I know
    Makes me all tingly knowing that I wind people up unintentionally
    I may start laughing like dr evil everytime I win pvp.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 852 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

    If anything I'm underselling the extent of the Deep State PvP Illuminati. How do you think the guys at the top of your bracket are scoring 3500 or 5000 points every event? At least I'm not one of THOSE people!

    Before turning the gun on himself....

  • rainkingucd
    rainkingucd Posts: 1,433 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

    If anything I'm underselling the extent of the Deep State PvP Illuminati. How do you think the guys at the top of your bracket are scoring 3500 or 5000 points every event? At least I'm not one of THOSE people!

    I have no idea, as I have never looked at the top of my bracket for high scores

  • MegaBee
    MegaBee Posts: 1,047 Chairperson of the Boards

    @rainkingucd said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    It’s hilarious to me how this Deep State PVP Illuminati is out there running secret operations beneath the bland veneer of most of us chasing progression, not reading any names at all.

    If anything I'm underselling the extent of the Deep State PvP Illuminati. How do you think the guys at the top of your bracket are scoring 3500 or 5000 points every event? At least I'm not one of THOSE people!

    I have no idea, as I have never looked at the top of my bracket for high scores

    I occasionally look at the top scores just for the "holy tinykitty how did they do that" factor before going back for progression.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,846 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    What does any of this pvp discussion have to do with character rebalancing?

    Also it’s obvious there are a LOT of players who still don’t play pvp since a common daily quest is “play one pvp match”.

    Pvp is for many players just about fighting the same meta teams repeatedly. And most players, especially if they aren’t 5-10 year vets, have limited options to fight those teams. These matches often get long for those players.

    Pvp also tends to drain health packs and if you aren’t already at the top of the roster heap and can own the leaderboards, odds are you never will be at this point.

    This is precisely why wins was introduced some 5 years ago. Between the need for outside coordination for good placement (generally) and that time sink - and the fact that if you don’t already have a super high end roster you almost never will be chasing good placement -they had to make grinding for progression possible to keep engagement up.

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