Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
Unless you're secretly a player whose name I'd know, it literally does not matter how hard you push, because the game is rigged against you (by us, not the devs). You won't place because someone else is fully in control of that.

If they slimmed season brackets down it would be harder to rig.

You know as well do I that people get punched when they are open. It happens to me and my guildmates often. It is part of this games PvP.

Don't act like it is some illuminati ****.

@Bowgentle said:
Nah I will never t1 without going to s4.
I won't even keep t10.
That's fine, I'm ok with t25.

I'm saying if the season was split into t500 groups and you were number 2, then you would work harder.

I know if a season was top 500 i would be motivated to push every pvp event.

Bowgentle

No, I wouldn't push harder unless I negotiated t1 at the start of the season.
That's the only way to t1, even if they made brackets 20 players.

dianetics

@Bowgentle said:
No, I wouldn't push harder unless I negotiated t1 at the start of the season.
That's the only way to t1, even if they made brackets 20 players.

Actually alluding to my original post. You can work really hard and a group of players can push you out.

Negotiating placement is wild. Back in the day of 2's and 3's in WoW arena it would be near impossible. But, in this game it is Friday morning.

As a single player or small guild, there is no way to directly fight back, so we are resigned to accept others players wishes.

Anyways back to my hole. Be well folks.

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:

@entrailbucket said:
Unless you're secretly a player whose name I'd know, it literally does not matter how hard you push, because the game is rigged against you (by us, not the devs). You won't place because someone else is fully in control of that.

If they slimmed season brackets down it would be harder to rig.

You know as well do I that people get punched when they are open. It happens to me and my guildmates often. It is part of this games PvP.

Don't act like it is some illuminati ****.

@Bowgentle said:
Nah I will never t1 without going to s4.
I won't even keep t10.
That's fine, I'm ok with t25.

I'm saying if the season was split into t500 groups and you were number 2, then you would work harder.

I know if a season was top 500 i would be motivated to push every pvp event.

It actually kind of is Illuminati stuff, though? I mean, not to that level, but I promise you there is absolutely nothing you can do to win a bracket ever. However much you score, someone who's coordinating will score more.

Bowgentle

And that's fine.
If you want cutthroat PVP, there's S2 and S5.
If you want a very, very easy 1200, there's S1.
If you want a stone, you go S4.
I have no clue what's going on in S3.

Zarqa

@Bowgentle said:
And that's fine.
If you want cutthroat PVP, there's S2 and S5.
If you want a very, very easy 1200, there's S1.
If you want a stone, you go S4.
I have no clue what's going on in S3.

Genuine question: PvP slices have flips too, right? So is the above true just for the initial flip, or for all flips in those slices? That’s something I’ve always wondered.

entrailbucket

@Zarqa said:

@Bowgentle said:
And that's fine.
If you want cutthroat PVP, there's S2 and S5.
If you want a very, very easy 1200, there's S1.
If you want a stone, you go S4.
I have no clue what's going on in S3.

Genuine question: PvP slices have flips too, right? So is the above true just for the initial flip, or for all flips in those slices? That’s something I’ve always wondered.

All flips. Because matchmaking isn't done by bracket, it's the entire slice.

Bad

. > @Bowgentle said:

And that's fine.
If you want cutthroat PVP, there's S2 and S5.
If you want a very, very easy 1200, there's S1.
If you want a stone, you go S4.
I have no clue what's going on in S3.

Is it fine? No, it isn't at all.
In other games you can grind hard and you can get high rewards in a high rank.
But this game has extrinsic factors and no matter how much you play you can't win.
EB talking about no one played other games? Maybe that's true. If not pvp's system would had been revamped 5 years ago.
Maybe limiting the skip button

Scofie

Tsk. I came here for another 5 pages of argument about how OP MThor is but all I got was an insightful conversation about the state of PvP in the modern game...

Now how do I get into this illuminati group and get T1 without playing PvP....? I once got 2nd place through a lucky bracket snipe with 7 minutes remaining.

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:
Tsk. I came here for another 5 pages of argument about how OP MThor is but all I got was an insightful conversation about the state of PvP in the modern game...

Now how do I get into this illuminati group and get T1 without playing PvP....? I once got 2nd place through a lucky bracket snipe with 7 minutes remaining.

Oh, I'm sure there are 8 or 10 players around here who'd be happy to give you an invite. You won't get t1 anywhere ever though, even with a public room -- those spots are predetermined and only available to those in the extra special top secret rooms (I wish I was joking).

Bowgentle

I heartily recommend people visit s2 to get a comparison point to the easy slices.
Then reconsider if you want to play "real PVP" or are just happy to leech off the high point targets in the easy slices.

entrailbucket

When I talk about how the game was, there was basically always coordination. There's coordination in s2!

The difference is the number of players coordinating. In the old days it was a bunch of groups of 20, or maybe 40, that all hated each other and fought each other, but helped their own group and played together.

These days the biggest rooms have like, I dunno, 1000 people? All "coordinating" together. There's really no check on points, and some players are functionally immune from attacks. They've built this conveyor belt where everybody gets wherever they want to get, easily and consistently.

It sounds good, right!? PvP where there's very little danger and you get wherever you want and all the enemies are actually friendly! Except in practice it's horrifically boring (to me, at least, and to many, many of the players actually doing it).

That's my real problem with this stuff, and with optimal PvE, and with some other MPQ things. A lot of folks choose to play in these really boring, un-fun ways, because they think they have to, I guess, and then complain about not having fun.

Daredevil217

@Scofie said:
Tsk. I came here for another 5 pages of argument about how OP MThor is but all I got was an insightful conversation about the state of PvP in the modern game...

Now how do I get into this illuminati group and get T1 without playing PvP....? I once got 2nd place through a lucky bracket snipe with 7 minutes remaining.

Same here.

But the thread pretty much ended on page 21 after the Great Wall of Contradictions post. The OP retracted their original stance on nerfing Thor and asked for the thread to die. EB owned up to his many contradictions and also admitted this thread really isn’t about nerfing Thor. Everyone just sort of moved on to talk about PVP in general without even a mention of Thor. Actually it’s sort of a metaphor for the game itself. People complain about whatever the best is but eventually tire out and move on unless the character is an actual problem, in which case you see multiple threads sustained over time and mentions of them in threads that aren’t even about them (Gambit, Chasm). You could probably lock this or split it off at this point.

Bad

This thread is already a split conversation by the few nerfers so it's a bit hard to split it again.

I don't want a generous slice or sniping a slice in order to get progression or rank rewards.
What I'd like is a pvp system not controlled by people using another MS app, and not being this people exactly the minority in this game.

Others asynchronous pvp games don't have slices and everyone is on the same event. There's a percentage of players and there are rewards for entering that %. Maybe rewards for to rank into the 25%, another one for the 10%, another one for 5 and 1%, and then the top 100 players and better rewards.
You shouldn't be able to chase players and make them lose points. That's toxic and there's really nothing to gain from it except immature people getting pissed off.
A pvp where alliances have a lot less importance and any individual could have a chance to be the winner.
That's what I really would love to see.

Bowgentle

Without alliances and without LINE and without coordination of any kind, the game would have died 9 years ago.
And this is the last I'll say on the topic of PVP.

Glockoma

Nerf Thor. 🔥🌎🔥

entrailbucket

@Tony_Foot said:

@entrailbucket said:

@ You won't get t1 anywhere ever though, even with a public room -- those spots are predetermined and only available to those in the extra special top secret rooms (I wish I was joking).

Remove the names from PVP, job done. These people are the type that play a full priced AAA game while solving the puzzles with a youtube guide. It's exploting and no better than tappers.

This has been talked about for years as a solution, but it wouldn't actually change anything. There are several ways to handle it with minimal effort that'd have no impact on coordination whatsoever.

If you combined this with "no skipping while shielded," well, now we're talking. I don't think the devs care enough about it to antagonize these (extremely loud, very entitled) players, though -- the backlash would be worse than any change they've ever made (except true healing, maybe).

Bad

Pvp is about being good fighting isn't it? Then:

• No brackets everyone in the same event and there will be a top 100 and a % of your score compared to others players' performance
• After skipping 2 times you must gain 60 points in order to skip another 2 times.
• As everyone is playing in the same event, more generous rewards for top 100 and for those in the 25%.

These changes could make a more transparent, competitive, and less toxic pvp.

entrailbucket

@Bad said:
Pvp is about being good fighting isn't it? Then:

• No brackets everyone in the same event and there will be a top 100 and a % of your score compared to others players' performance
• After skipping 2 times you must gain 60 points in order to skip another 2 times.
• As everyone is playing in the same event, more generous rewards for top 100 and for those in the 25%.

These changes could make a more transparent, competitive, and less toxic pvp.

1 would ensure that only the coordinators could ever get placement.

2 is interesting, and would help hinder some coordination, but would kill PvP completely for a bunch of lower rosters.

3 is necessary if you do #1, obviously, but I don't think the combination of those things would have the effect you're aiming for.

DAZ0273

If you want to kill co-ordination surely you make it so that when shielded you never give points for an attack regardless of when you got queued?