Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

Timemachinego

@entrailbucket said:

The fun, competitive multiplayer game that is MPQ PvP is completely by accident and has nothing at all to do with the game the devs were attempting to build. I don't believe they even anticipated its existence, and I certainly don't think they could ever have created such a fun game on purpose.

They used to talk about making an alliance war mode -- the problem with that is that there's a 0% chance that the official alliance war mode would be anywhere near as fun as the one we created for ourselves. In fact, we'd probably just repurpose their alliance war mode into something more fun.

The fun here is all hidden behind 10 years of shorthand in chats, tactics, social norms, and grudges. It only exists because the MPQ devs managed to accidentally create the perfect platform for it, but none of that is documented or explained anywhere official, nor could it be.

It's funny how often you go on about this glorious secret PVP game because it's largely gone extinct; You're making arguments in favor of an "extra" part of the game that very few are still playing.

I'm going to have to run some fuzzy numbers but we can estimate that at least 40k players are interacting with seasonal PVP play to some extent, 15~ of these at the highest tier (info taken from recorded bracket flips).

Of those 40k+ there are at most 1k unique players amongst all the various pvp slice rooms and the majority of them are there because working together in that way is a reliable method to generate a lot of points.

Of those 1k, how many are actually taking part in the dump/snipe/grudge behavior you relish in? I'm in an alliance family of over 200 active players(I know). Of those 200, I can name like 6 whole people that actually go hard on hunting specific players or alliances.

If we're the 1% you're speaking for an even smaller subset of subsets.

Pantera236

@Timemachinego said:

@entrailbucket said:

The fun, competitive multiplayer game that is MPQ PvP is completely by accident and has nothing at all to do with the game the devs were attempting to build. I don't believe they even anticipated its existence, and I certainly don't think they could ever have created such a fun game on purpose.

They used to talk about making an alliance war mode -- the problem with that is that there's a 0% chance that the official alliance war mode would be anywhere near as fun as the one we created for ourselves. In fact, we'd probably just repurpose their alliance war mode into something more fun.

The fun here is all hidden behind 10 years of shorthand in chats, tactics, social norms, and grudges. It only exists because the MPQ devs managed to accidentally create the perfect platform for it, but none of that is documented or explained anywhere official, nor could it be.

It's funny how often you go on about this glorious secret PVP game because it's largely gone extinct; You're making arguments in favor of an "extra" part of the game that very few are still playing.

I'm going to have to run some fuzzy numbers but we can estimate that at least 40k players are interacting with seasonal PVP play to some extent, 15~ of these at the highest tier (info taken from recorded bracket flips).

Of those 40k+ there are at most 1k unique players amongst all the various pvp slice rooms and the majority of them are there because working together in that way is a reliable method to generate a lot of points.

Of those 1k, how many are actually taking part in the dump/snipe/grudge behavior you relish in? I'm in an alliance family of over 200 active players(I know). Of those 200, I can name like 6 whole people that actually go hard on hunting specific players or alliances.

If we're the 1% you're speaking for an even smaller subset of subsets.

I mean 6 out of 200 is 3%. I'd agree that it's probably not 3% overall but to say it's largely extinct is a weird thing to say.

Bad

This thread is a split conversation because of many players having big problems with her. She was totally OP, her cascades deadly.


Probably I could post screenshots like this one and the previous one every day I find a maxed Mthor. And make videos severely beating up Mthor teams.
And like I already said, no, there isn't a gacha game having a really hard to build 5*s mechanic where they nerfed an easy to beat character just because they are popular.

Bowgentle

@Bad said:
This thread is a split conversation because of many players having big problems with her. She was totally OP, her cascades deadly.


Probably I could post screenshots like this one and the previous one every day I find a maxed Mthor. And make videos severely beating up Mthor teams.
And like I already said, no, there isn't a gacha game having a really hard to build 5*s mechanic where they nerfed an easy to beat character just because they are popular.

You realize using a lower level Shang Jane to beat a maxed one isn't really helping you to convince people that she's not OP?

Bad

@Bowgentle said:

You realize using a lower level Shang Jane to beat a maxed one isn't really helping you to convince people that she's not OP?

There is the another screenshot using kingpin and Omega, if it's for to convince people.
Actually what people should take from that screenshot is the damage that a maxed Mthor did to me.
The supposed struggle I had to endure.
And I could beat Mthor with just any other good team.

Bad

I couldn't find any maxed Mthor in SIM right now, sorry about that.


But it's possible to see what awful damage did to my team (sarcasm on).

Gymp28

@Daredevil217
I’m not going to quote your post about EB as we’d be here forever scrolling, but just to say I love you and that’s a masterpiece of contradiction. 👍
Well put Sir!

Timemachinego

@Pantera236 said:

I mean 6 out of 200 is 3%. I'd agree that it's probably not 3% overall but to say it's largely extinct is a weird thing to say.

Fair, but we're also arguably the top alliance in the game. It's kind of an arms race scenario, every competitive alliance family tries to keep a few of these maniacs around so that they can threaten mutual destruction if anyone goes too hard in a particular direction.

My main (poorly articulated) point was that EB is in favor of a game that very few people are actually participating in; it's amazing that he's taken his inability to understand general consensus and stretch it into a 20+ page thread.

The rockett

@DAZ0273 said:

Early MPQ is pretty hilarious in some ways to me with all the nonsense. Like that Spaceship guy and his "legal counsel" who rocked up on the boards at some point. Didn't they try and demand the Devs accept them buying breakfast or something?!?! Bonkers. They had delicious levels of delusional importance, I loved it! I miss those sort of lunatics. I guess it is sort of why I like Entrail so much with his tales of players laying siege to the developers HQ instead of them pretty much being 89% spreadsheet nerds. I regret in some ways not being able to get into the whole Line petty bollocks but at the same time maybe not, lol.

Wow, the catering lunch joke I made 5+ years ago still lives on. NICE!!!!

BlackBoltRocks

@Daredevil217 take all my Likes and Insightfuls. You sir just won the forums.

entrailbucket

@Daredevil217 great job! You cut n pasted like 30 lines, completely out of context, from what, 100 different posts, over how many days, to assemble the argument you wanted, which is what, exactly? That I contradicted myself? Whatever I've been saying seems to have gotten the point across, if you'd spend more time dissecting every line of my every post than you do playing MPQ.

So yes, I think it's pretty weird that "the way people want to play the game," according to you, is to not play the game part of the game. How am I trying to take away someone's fun when players in this thread are saying the game is already no fun and they want to minimize their time spent playing it?

If I want the game to be something it's not, what is that thing? You keep saying that and I don't understand what you think I want. What do YOU want it to be? Why are those things incompatible?

DAZ0273

I never found the Puzzle Warrior > @The rockett said:

@DAZ0273 said:

Early MPQ is pretty hilarious in some ways to me with all the nonsense. Like that Spaceship guy and his "legal counsel" who rocked up on the boards at some point. Didn't they try and demand the Devs accept them buying breakfast or something?!?! Bonkers. They had delicious levels of delusional importance, I loved it! I miss those sort of lunatics. I guess it is sort of why I like Entrail so much with his tales of players laying siege to the developers HQ instead of them pretty much being 89% spreadsheet nerds. I regret in some ways not being able to get into the whole Line petty bollocks but at the same time maybe not, lol.

Wow, the catering lunch joke I made 5+ years ago still lives on. NICE!!!!

Oh that was you? Sorry 'bout that, lol!

The rockett

@DAZ0273 said:
I never found the Puzzle Warrior > @The rockett said:

@DAZ0273 said:

Oh that was you? Sorry 'bout that, lol!

Yea the joke was about I wonder if I would cater a lunch to their office if we could get some communication from them. Funny enough, I made that joke and it got a response.

DAZ0273

@The rockett said:

@DAZ0273 said:
I never found the Puzzle Warrior > @The rockett said:

@DAZ0273 said:

Oh that was you? Sorry 'bout that, lol!

Yea the joke was about I wonder if I would cater a lunch to their office if we could get some communication from them. Funny enough, I made that joke and it got a response.

No worries - I mis-remembered.

bbigler

I could post screenshots everyday of MThor battles gone badly - where she gets crazy cascades and AP and hurts my team in just a few turns. Colossus makes her manageable and I would rather fight her than boosted 5-stars. So I’m not justified in calling for a nerf even though her battles look unfair.

In comparison to Shang, she hits above her weight (but not as much as Shang) but she has better defense than Shang too. Put them together and you have a team that can hit way above their level and has some PVP deterrence. But since PVP is a game of picking the lesser of 2 evils, MThor teams get hit a lot.

So now that I’m retracting my original statement to nerf MThor (which started this mess) can this thread die now?

entrailbucket

I think this stopped being about Thor a long time ago (witness the many, many contradictory statements about what she is/does from the same players, including me) and started being about philosophy and what players want the game to be. I actually find all that way more interesting than "is character x bad for the game?" because "bad for the game" will have different meanings to everyone, and it's those ideas that are more fun to talk about.

Bad

@bbigler said:
I could post screenshots everyday of MThor battles gone badly - where she gets crazy cascades and AP and hurts my team in just a few turns.

Post them. Maybe you could get more advice.
My screenshot in SIM wasn't my best battle. Bad board, I couldn't match her initial chargeds, she got some lucky cascades.
Also riri isn't the best choice, you can only use her green until Mthor is out (I played her thinking hopefully no one will find more excuses). And still that's all she could hurt me.

entrailbucket

@Timemachinego said:

@entrailbucket said:

The fun, competitive multiplayer game that is MPQ PvP is completely by accident and has nothing at all to do with the game the devs were attempting to build. I don't believe they even anticipated its existence, and I certainly don't think they could ever have created such a fun game on purpose.

They used to talk about making an alliance war mode -- the problem with that is that there's a 0% chance that the official alliance war mode would be anywhere near as fun as the one we created for ourselves. In fact, we'd probably just repurpose their alliance war mode into something more fun.

The fun here is all hidden behind 10 years of shorthand in chats, tactics, social norms, and grudges. It only exists because the MPQ devs managed to accidentally create the perfect platform for it, but none of that is documented or explained anywhere official, nor could it be.

It's funny how often you go on about this glorious secret PVP game because it's largely gone extinct; You're making arguments in favor of an "extra" part of the game that very few are still playing.

I'm going to have to run some fuzzy numbers but we can estimate that at least 40k players are interacting with seasonal PVP play to some extent, 15~ of these at the highest tier (info taken from recorded bracket flips).

Of those 40k+ there are at most 1k unique players amongst all the various pvp slice rooms and the majority of them are there because working together in that way is a reliable method to generate a lot of points.

Of those 1k, how many are actually taking part in the dump/snipe/grudge behavior you relish in? I'm in an alliance family of over 200 active players(I know). Of those 200, I can name like 6 whole people that actually go hard on hunting specific players or alliances.

If we're the 1% you're speaking for an even smaller subset of subsets.

The competitive PvP game has gone extinct, largely -- that's correct. I guess I'd ask you, how many of the 4000 players in your "alliance family" actually enjoy playing PvP the way they currently do? How many of them instead view PvP (and/or PvE, which we won't even get into here) as a chore that must be done to earn rewards, an un-fun slog where time spent must be minimized, in order to get to the fun part? How many of them prefer a metagame where one best team exists, and is weak on defense, so you can always use the same guys to beat the same guys, and quickly get PvP over with?

I'm not arguing that the way I prefer is "right," because there is no right way to play a game. I'm arguing that it's more fun. A lot of players have never played PvP this way and have no desire to, but why? If you don't like what you're doing now, why not try something different? If you find the way you play PvP fun currently, then why are you trying to spend as little time and energy on it as possible? If you've never played competitively, how do you know it's less fun than what you do now?

Bad

@entrailbucket said:

I'm not arguing that the way I prefer is "right," because there is no right way to play a game. I'm arguing that it's more fun. A lot of players have never played PvP this way and have no desire to, but why? If you don't like what you're doing now, why not try something different? If you find the way you play PvP fun currently, then why are you trying to spend as little time and energy on it as possible? If you've never played competitively, how do you know it's less fun than what you do now?

If you really need an answer I can give you mine.
This game already demands an excesive amount of real life schedule in all competitive events, I don't want to increase that commitment at all even if it's more fun.
The other game I'm playing also has guild events, I don't want to take time off in that game for playing more mpq pvp.
Also I refuse to play mpq pvp using line. The other game needs discord in order to coordinate and I can't manage increased messages. Plus working.

entrailbucket

@Bad said:

@entrailbucket said:

I'm not arguing that the way I prefer is "right," because there is no right way to play a game. I'm arguing that it's more fun. A lot of players have never played PvP this way and have no desire to, but why? If you don't like what you're doing now, why not try something different? If you find the way you play PvP fun currently, then why are you trying to spend as little time and energy on it as possible? If you've never played competitively, how do you know it's less fun than what you do now?

If you really need an answer I can give you mine.
This game already demands an excesive amount of real life schedule in all competitive events, I don't want to increase that commitment at all even if it's more fun.
The other game I'm playing also has guild events, I don't want to take time off in that game for playing more mpq pvp.
Also I refuse to play mpq pvp using line. The other game needs discord in order to coordinate and I can't manage increased messages. Plus working.

So...like..."demands," "excessive," "commitment." Are these the sort of words you use to describe a completely optional activity that you do in your free time for fun? This sounds like a job, not a hobby.

If someone enjoys, say, fishing, or hiking, would they complain that those hobbies demand too much of their time? Could you imagine someone who goes fishing for fun (not for sustenance) complaining that they just want to go to the lake and catch 50 fish as quickly as possible, so they can move on to some other activity they actually like?