Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

kuntilanak

@entrailbucket said:

@kuntilanak said:

@Bowgentle said:

@kuntilanak said:
Hmm, talking about "enjoyment', in PVP, it's largely an acquired taste. At least for me.

I don't mind slugging it to 50 wins, as long as i can form fairly viable team(s) that can take me there without draining my resources (health packs and boosts) too fast. I believe most here will stick to the same team for reliability and consistent results. I do that most of the time.

If only they can re-code it as such that when we attack and lost/withdraw, we don't lose points... Then again, that also means the pool point for each subsequent opponents becomes smaller and smaller as you rack up wins... hmm...

Again, that's PVE, not PVP.
If you can't lose points, nobody will ever shield and the top scores will be in the 10000s.

I'm talking about PVP here... and i didn't say we should never lose points. Only when we initiate the match. If we were attacked and lost, we still lose points. Like i said, i don't see it happening at all. Otherwise it would've been implemented long ago.

I'm not sure this would have a huge impact, good or bad, actually. Why is it something you want?

I agree it's not a big deal. Don't mind me lamenting my thoughts...

entrailbucket

@bbigler said:
Because of ascension, “everyone” will have 550s in a few years, then everyone will have caught up with old players. Even 5-Star supports are a little easier to get now.

But I have some questions for the 550 rosters out there: why are you still playing? What’s the point? What are you trying to accomplish? Is the game still fun for you or has it become boring? Personally, I would get bored if my roster progression stopped or slowed to a crawl.

Personally, I don't have ALL the 550s yet, so I'm hanging around until at least then (obviously this is not possible ever, with the rate of releases and now accension).

I love PvP. I love fighting in MPQ. Always have. Still do.

I also love PvE, if a little less. I play off the clock/noncompetitive on PvE and I use it to try out all kinds of different teams and look for new combos. I switched to that strategy after competing stopped being fun for me.

I dropped Shield Sim years ago because it wasn't fun. I just don't touch it. If any part of the rest of the game ever stopped being fun, I'd drop that too, with zero regrets or FOMO.

bbigler

@entrailbucket said:

@bbigler said:
Because of ascension, “everyone” will have 550s in a few years, then everyone will have caught up with old players. Even 5-Star supports are a little easier to get now.

But I have some questions for the 550 rosters out there: why are you still playing? What’s the point? What are you trying to accomplish? Is the game still fun for you or has it become boring? Personally, I would get bored if my roster progression stopped or slowed to a crawl.

Personally, I don't have ALL the 550s yet, so I'm hanging around until at least then (obviously this is not possible ever, with the rate of releases and now accension).

I love PvP. I love fighting in MPQ. Always have. Still do.

I also love PvE, if a little less. I play off the clock/noncompetitive on PvE and I use it to try out all kinds of different teams and look for new combos. I switched to that strategy after competing stopped being fun for me.

I dropped Shield Sim years ago because it wasn't fun. I just don't touch it. If any part of the rest of the game ever stopped being fun, I'd drop that too, with zero regrets or FOMO.

This is the most level-headed thing I’ve ever heard you say.

Bowgentle

I like PVE.
I like taking the occasional t5 from the spreadsheet people.

Bad

@bbigler said:

But I have some questions for the 550 rosters out there: why are you still playing? What’s the point? What are you trying to accomplish? Is the game still fun for you or has it become boring? Personally, I would get bored if my roster progression stopped or slowed to a crawl.

That's a weird question and implies that the ultimate goal of any player is just to get a 550 roster and that's all.

entrailbucket

@bbigler said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bbigler said:
Because of ascension, “everyone” will have 550s in a few years, then everyone will have caught up with old players. Even 5-Star supports are a little easier to get now.

But I have some questions for the 550 rosters out there: why are you still playing? What’s the point? What are you trying to accomplish? Is the game still fun for you or has it become boring? Personally, I would get bored if my roster progression stopped or slowed to a crawl.

Personally, I don't have ALL the 550s yet, so I'm hanging around until at least then (obviously this is not possible ever, with the rate of releases and now accension).

I love PvP. I love fighting in MPQ. Always have. Still do.

I also love PvE, if a little less. I play off the clock/noncompetitive on PvE and I use it to try out all kinds of different teams and look for new combos. I switched to that strategy after competing stopped being fun for me.

I dropped Shield Sim years ago because it wasn't fun. I just don't touch it. If any part of the rest of the game ever stopped being fun, I'd drop that too, with zero regrets or FOMO.

This is the most level-headed thing I’ve ever heard you say.

So what happens if you go back and apply that (100% true) new information to all of the non-level-headed, awful things I've said?

I think I do a terrible job of getting my point across when it comes to stuff like this.

Bowgentle

Nah your point is mostly "play how you want but have fun!"
But you follow it with 5 paragraphs of "how I think you can maximize fun and piss off all-in people!" Which confuses people.

bbigler

@entrailbucket
I was trying to compliment you, but your deductions are correct. I’m only saying this to help ….. you tend to come off negative and sometimes exaggerate to prove your point, so a “level headed” comment was refreshing and I hope you continue that.

I don’t expect everyone to pretend that everything in the game is great, but let’s not be unfairly negative about it either. I try to be optimistic myself but some things do bug me. There are others on this forum that tend to be “Mr Negatives”.

EDIT: what I’ve learned from this forum and other alliance chats is that everyone’s experience playing this game is not the same. So what seems true to you may not be true for someone else. The MThor argument proves that I think.

revskip

@bbigler said:
@entrailbucket

EDIT: what I’ve learned from this forum and other alliance chats is that everyone’s experience playing this game is not the same. So what seems true to you may not be true for someone else. The MThor argument proves that I think.

This is my biggest take away from not only this thread but the meta game in general. What entrail sees at 550 MMR is not what I see at 490 MMR. That was true during the Chasm thread and it is true for this thread as well.

What one person sees in their MMR is only indicative of their MMR. Which is why broad sweeping generalizations are mosbunall incorrect. I see walls of Thor where others might not. I didn't see walls of Chasm where others did.

Beyond that even is also the fact that there is a fair amount of subjectivity in play styles and in player experiences. What is fun for one person isn't necessarily fun for others.

dianetics

@Bowgentle said:
So much salt.
You were never going to catch the people with better rosters anyway.
Go to s2, see if you can compete there.
There's no collaboration.

Look man, I genuinely like your posts and your insights into the game. But, clearly you missed what I was referring to.
I like entrails post and insights as well, but I was reacting specifically to entrail claiming all others were arguing bad faith in a specific post.

@entrailbucket said:
Nobody here plays or has played any other competitive multiplayer game, ever.

Players of other games cheer for nerfs, bans, rebalances, anything that encourages variety and a diverse metagame. MPQ is the only community I've ever been a part of where players not only prefer but DEMAND a stagnant metagame with "one best team" that everyone uses, as long as that team minimizes the amount of time spent playing the game.

Call it salt if you like. But, I wasn't referring to the slice I play in, but how the brackets play out. You are not competing directly with people in your bracket. You compete against them indirectly.

I was not referring to my own experiences at all. I only play PvP for the progression rewards I want. So, sometimes 12 wins and sometimes 1200 points. It just depends on the specific event.

How PvP is structured right now does not incentivize new people trying to come in and join. It actually pushes people out.

The worst part about it is that for every player pushed out the PvP pool gets smaller, because it takes so long for people to get into the high tier pool.

If they broke season placement down to smaller pools of people it might be more agreeable and you could potentially get more engagement.

Bowgentle

But season placement is completely irrelevant after T1.
I'm not going to hop 17 times each event to get one more heroic ten pack at the end of the season.

dianetics

You are right which is kind of the problem.
You and I are in the same bracket, but we will probably never see each other directly in PvP.
They should slim down the season pools to try to incentivize more people to compete.

Bad

@dianetics said:

How PvP is structured right now does not incentivize new people trying to come in and join. It actually pushes people out.

I can agree with that.
Once you have a decent roster, 18 final cps just doesn't worth spending the gold in shields, and much less playing 50 matches.
Also alliances will have advantage against an individual player( this rarely happens in any other asynchronous pvp).
After chasm's debacle, I found that actually I didn't need to rank up at all, just getting to 500 points. If I have a lot of time and good godboost I can push to 1000 points but I wouldn't do that for habit or obligation never more.
Imo the whole system should change in order to be less toxic and more inclusive.
And a new MMR matchmaking won't change the pvp core.

dianetics

@Bad said:
After chasm's debacle, I found that actually I didn't need to rank up at all, just getting to 500 points. If I have a lot of time and good godboost I can push to 1000 points but I wouldn't do that for habit or obligation never more.

I wouldn't call Chasm a debacle. I only play the game in front of me.

But I am 100% in agreement, once I hit 600 points I see no reason to climb. If i do not shield I always end up around 400 points and have to push again.

But again, there is no point for me to climb ever because my rewards are in a pool of 5,000. So really who gives a ****.

entrailbucket

@dianetics It works this way because the game considers me and everyone else here to be in the same tier. And...we pretty much are!

There's obviously quite a bit of difference between me and a 4* player, but once you're at the champion 5* tier, there's just not very many of us. They can't silo me off into some "550s only" tier because there simply aren't enough in the game. That really wouldn't be fair either, because the "550 players" are mostly just "3x meta 550s" and not "all the boosted guys maxed out" like I have. So they'd have to match me with, like, the two other players who have 30+ 550s.

They're concerned mostly with keeping all of us away from the actual new players. The difference between me and you is much, much smaller than the difference between both of us and a new player.

I'd also disagree with HOW new players are being forced out. It's not incoming attacks, although that can be a thing. I don't think the coordinators play that way anymore, though. It's insane scores. A lower roster can put up 5000 points if they have the right friends. But a roster like mine can't (well...I could, but let's leave me out of this) if they don't have the right connections or rooms.

dianetics

@entrailbucket You are right.
But the devs can slim the brackets down.

If you are a new player dropping into PvP and you hit your first couples wins and you are placed like 2000+ there is no incentive to climb. You can check the top scores and just be discouraged.

If a new players pops up in PvP they should be encouraged to compete and try to get t100 season placement. Right now it really isn't possible and pushes new players out.

New players aren't being pushed out from attacks, they are being pushed out from dilution.

I will put it like this. There was one season where each event I placed top 50 for every PvP in my slice. My season placement was outside of top 1000. It doesn't make sense to the average player.

PvP placement is so outside of everything else in the game it is almost alien. One PvE is top 500 and a season PvP is like top 5000? Why it is just strange.

Bowgentle

I highly doubt new players look at season brackets.
They look at the current event.
And really new players are playing in lower CLs.
None of us have any idea how placement looks there.

entrailbucket

The season placement thing is because of what the coordinators/slice controllers have done. Different time slices have different...er..."rules" that influence how much you can score. I used to finish #1-5 every single PvP in s2, and like t1000 for the season or something.

dianetics

The lower cl pvps are borked.
They do not work and they do not have enough players to populate them. On my alt account last year I had 1 champed 3* and I was pushed up against 4* rosters.
I literally had less than 50 players in a PvP and it ranged from 2-4* players.
As far as I can see the pvp game starts in the 4* territory.

When players get to our tier they will see the issues because they have been playing at least 1 year.

I would suggest you both go back and play at the early game because it is wildly different. The game has catered to old heads, but there is nothing for the early game. BCS is trying to appeal to newer players with the 3* releases. So maybe we can get more players pushing up.

I am going back to my cave now, maybe I will see ya'll in a month or two.

Bowgentle

You're doing what most of us are doing - minimizing shield usage while still placing t5/10.
It just happens that your slice scores lower than say, S4 - which is your own decision.
As you very well know, season placement isn't worth the HP expense to get it, individual PVP rewards is where it's at.
And even they need an update.