People have talked about doing team rankings or synergy rankings or PvE only rankings or whatever...nobody's ever done it. I think it's a LOT harder than it sounds. I don't even know where you'd start.
I will also say that character rankings aren't totally subjective. Some characters are objectively good in just about any situation and some others are objectively bad in just about any situation. Most of them are somewhere in the middle, and the middle is pretty fluid, though.
@Daredevil217 Regarding Gwenom, in a “general ranking for all”, I agree she’s not top 20, but still above average. Alone she can produce her own web tiles and nuke a team. With Chasm as a partner, she could simply focus on collecting Red since he passively makes web tiles too. She also reduces symbiotes damage, which can be useful in certain situations.
How do you rank Venom Red and Omega? I think Venom Rex is squarely average but Omega is surely top 20. Passive protects and AOE can be easily exploited and his Red hit is good too. His high health also gives some staying power.
As for my roster, I think Gwenom will be #2 behind Shang for dmg output; that’s why I’m excited to cover her. I want Omega as a PVP deterrent, which is better than what I got now. So to me, he’s top 5.
Eh gwenom's web tile generation only works if there are no special tiles out there, and there are a loooot of special tiles floating around.
@Seph1roth5 said: Eh gwenom's web tile generation only works if there are no special tiles out there, and there are a loooot of special tiles floating around.
I would add to this - Gwenom's ability to create webs is actively bad. She only passively creates web tiles if she tanks her colors, and even if she does tank any colors she doesn't as soon as you cross her AP threshold. Her purple can create some, but only a handful and then only if your opponent doesn't create many special tiles.
There's no good web tile generator in the 5* tier at this time, so she only gets good use of her full powers when paired with 4* characters, which is pretty bad. It's why SMPP is such a terrible character, he won't be so bad if he had a good partner in his own tier, but there isn't.
What’s wrong with using 4* characters???
If she was paired with Miles and SM2099, then she would tank all colors and get more passive web creation and AP.
She doesn't tank for long.
@GrimSkald said: @Seph1roth5 said: Eh gwenom's web tile generation only works if there are no special tiles out there, and there are a loooot of special tiles floating around. I would add to this - Gwenom's ability to create webs is actively bad. She only passively creates web tiles if she tanks her colors, and even if she does tank any colors she doesn't as soon as you cross her AP threshold. Her purple can create some, but only a handful and then only if your opponent doesn't create many special tiles. There's no good web tile generator in the 5* tier at this time, so she only gets good use of her full powers when paired with 4* characters, which is pretty bad. It's why SMPP is such a terrible character, he won't be so bad if he had a good partner in his own tier, but there isn't.
@GrimSkald said:
Sadly, Chasm seems to be too good at that too, like everything else he does.
Her Purple is the worst power in both 5* and 3* tier. It basically does nothing if she's paired with special tile generators.
It makes me sad they're still creating new powers with the possibility that they do nothing. At least do small damage! 5* and 3* Vulture's Purple actually does something! I also appreciate that their Green destroys any tiles, unlike someone like Abomination's Green that only affects basic tiles
Eh, her power has a chance to do nothing, or it might do something useful. There are powers that have 0 chance to ever do anything of value though -- take Black Bolt's yellow, for example.
@Daredevil217 said: @Vog said: @Daredevil217 said: Vulture might be the same. I have him as a top 15 character, which might be crazy. @Daredevil217 - do you update your awesome guide somewhere more frequently than on the MPQ Character Discussion post, or is your "he's top 15" comment coming from your current personal edit that you haven't posted yet? Just curious as I look forward to reading your take on High Evolutionary, Gwenom, etc. The latter. I am actually editing the guide now. It’s annoying when I fall behind because I need to update the folks who pair well with the new characters. And of course update the rebalanced characters. Right now I’m just sort of reading/scanning each old entry and making small edits.
@Daredevil217 said:
@Vog said: @Daredevil217 said: Vulture might be the same. I have him as a top 15 character, which might be crazy. @Daredevil217 - do you update your awesome guide somewhere more frequently than on the MPQ Character Discussion post, or is your "he's top 15" comment coming from your current personal edit that you haven't posted yet? Just curious as I look forward to reading your take on High Evolutionary, Gwenom, etc.
@Vog said:
@Daredevil217 said: Vulture might be the same. I have him as a top 15 character, which might be crazy.
Vulture might be the same. I have him as a top 15 character, which might be crazy.
@Daredevil217 - do you update your awesome guide somewhere more frequently than on the MPQ Character Discussion post, or is your "he's top 15" comment coming from your current personal edit that you haven't posted yet?
Just curious as I look forward to reading your take on High Evolutionary, Gwenom, etc.
The latter. I am actually editing the guide now. It’s annoying when I fall behind because I need to update the folks who pair well with the new characters. And of course update the rebalanced characters. Right now I’m just sort of reading/scanning each old entry and making small edits.
Finally updated it!
@Punisher5784 said: @GrimSkald said: @Seph1roth5 said: Eh gwenom's web tile generation only works if there are no special tiles out there, and there are a loooot of special tiles floating around. I would add to this - Gwenom's ability to create webs is actively bad. She only passively creates web tiles if she tanks her colors, and even if she does tank any colors she doesn't as soon as you cross her AP threshold. Her purple can create some, but only a handful and then only if your opponent doesn't create many special tiles. There's no good web tile generator in the 5* tier at this time, so she only gets good use of her full powers when paired with 4* characters, which is pretty bad. It's why SMPP is such a terrible character, he won't be so bad if he had a good partner in his own tier, but there isn't. Her Purple is the worst power in both 5* and 3* tier. It basically does nothing if she's paired with special tile generators. It makes me sad they're still creating new powers with the possibility that they do nothing. At least do small damage! 5* and 3* Vulture's Purple actually does something! I also appreciate that their Green destroys any tiles, unlike someone like Abomination's Green that only affects basic tiles
@Punisher5784 said:
Her purple desperately needs a rework, it's too clunky. 8/10 times I try to fire it and I get an error message. So unless you have another purple user you're just hoarding ap, forced into her no match damage state too early and making her a liability to the team.
At least agent venom's passive drains ap and does some damage, and you have options to use up all the ap to bring him out of his berserk state.
Maybe they were trying to balance her dmg output by limiting her web tile creation? But Chasm can produce web tiles easily in the 5* tier.
Maybe. Perhaps they assumed that people would pair her with Chasm and his self-draining would be enough to keep her black passive under control.
Omega is already in LL, yet I'll wait until failgwenom exits. I think that explains how I rate her. Perhaps I'll pull with this vulture and dinodud.
This discussion brings me back to the reason I play the game - to have fun. Gwenom is something new and different, and if I can find a way to win tough battles with her that would be very satisfying. I’m not excited about VenomRex; and Omega (who I like) feels like a hybrid between Apoc & IHulk. Vulture is a battery but still different than others. The reason I want to champ new characters is to test them out and find new winning teams.
Even if I had all 5*s at 550 and could speed through all events and get #1 every time, it would still get boring after a while. Doing anything over and over gets boring. So, the devs try to invent new mechanics and ways to win and seem to release meta breaking characters twice a year to keep the game interesting.
My point is that I can have fun playing a new character even if they aren’t the top of their tier. If winning becomes too easy it’s not a challenge, therefore not engaging and quickly becomes boring. Does anyone enjoy playing easy nodes? 1 turn and it’s over - is that fun? Do you want new 5*s to be so good that all battles are easy?
I don’t think anyone is criticizing you for playing her. People are just saying they prefer to play other toons. The game is about having fun. If she’s fun for you, then have at it!
I have her champed. I find her to be quite bad because she plays so poorly with 95% of the tier, including Okoye imo. It’s true she is usable with Chasm, though very slow, and you can sort of play her with Parker. Maybe she’ll get a great partner soon that will completely change how you can use her. But, regardless, if you like her kit and think she’s fun, everybody else’s opinion is irrelevant. Enjoy!
Yeah, I said this before... somewhere -- Gwen has the potential to be really great, to be the key character on a really strong, fast team. But the partner she needs just doesn't currently exist.
@Kolence said: @GrimSkald said: @Seph1roth5 said: Eh gwenom's web tile generation only works if there are no special tiles out there, and there are a loooot of special tiles floating around. I would add to this - Gwenom's ability to create webs is actively bad. She only passively creates web tiles if she tanks her colors, and even if she does tank any colors she doesn't as soon as you cross her AP threshold. Her purple can create some, but only a handful and then only if your opponent doesn't create many special tiles. There's no good web tile generator in the 5* tier at this time, so she only gets good use of her full powers when paired with 4* characters, which is pretty bad. It's why SMPP is such a terrible character, he won't be so bad if he had a good partner in his own tier, but there isn't. Sadly, Chasm seems to be too good at that too, like everything else he does.
@Kolence said:
You're right, I wasn't counting Chasm, however, since he's a bad partner for anyone who uses AP to fuel their powers, which Spider-Gwen does.
You can bring Kang, I suppose, which recovers your AP most of the time (not all the time, I don't know why, and it's a bit frustrating I can't figure it out,) but that's your team right there and that's honestly not fantastic synergy considering that Kang and Gwen overlap on two colors.
@658_2 said: I have her champed. I find her to be quite bad because she plays so poorly with 95% of the tier, including Okoye imo. It’s true she is usable with Chasm, though very slow, and you can sort of play her with Parker. Maybe she’ll get a great partner soon that will completely change how you can use her. But, regardless, if you like her kit and think she’s fun, everybody else’s opinion is irrelevant. Enjoy!
Honestly, if we had someone like 4* Miles in the 5* tier she'd make a great partner for them. Miles is capable of spamming web tiles and gains AP every time they're matched. OTOH Miles and Gwen have traditionally overlapped on colors a lot, and the fact that Gwen never tanks for long is really annoying.
All in all she's a bad character. Not the worst, certainly, but her design is pretty dissonant with the existing game.