***** Magik (Phoenix Five) *****

ThisisClemFandango

I can't believe I went to the trouble of finding Annie wilkes' rant from Misery to demonstrate my disappointment and got no likes.
I had such high hopes for Magik but yeah she seems DOA

entrailbucket

What if I like interesting powers and synergy but want characters to do a worthwhile amount of damage? Why are those things mutually exclusive?

Codex

@entrailbucket said:
What if I like interesting powers and synergy but want characters to do a worthwhile amount of damage? Why are those things mutually exclusive?

There is nothing wrong with wanting it. It's up to BCS to deliver. And let's not forget there are many subsets of players that want different things. They may not cater your wants/needs right away.

entrailbucket

Sure, players are allowed to want different things. But look at Okoye. She synergizes with nearly everyone, and requires strategy (how will you keep her in front?), but her power does a significant amount of damage. Apocalypse is a synergy character with several unique and fun mechanics, who also happens to do a ton of damage. Even the dreaded Chasm has a completely unique, interesting and fun powerset, and also does a metric ton of damage.

So why does Magik get to be unique, synergistic and interesting, but only if she hits like a newborn baby?

pepitedechocolat

My point was not "magic should be meta" as meta is meant to evolve. It is "she should bring something unique enough to be considered nice to play" which from my point of view she does not . Her "unique" power is spawning demons but the damage they do is super low and every other turn, at this point it's just a weakened version of spawning attack tiles.

Besides I dont think devs ever stated "she is not meant to be meta", on the contrary they teased she should be a strong contender even with nerfed numbers. (maybe they are fully mistaken, as it seems their QA process has had some setbacks lately)

Bad

Yes I think the words were she will still be a top.
Hard to say when she still has her new character buff and fighting her I didn't lose nothing more than chip damage.
If there is a match 4 and the repeaters got hit, bad luck they are gone.
Or you can happily match her repeaters if they are going to hit you, then new respawned will have 2 longs turns.
BCS started fresh and strong but now they are creating meh characters and saying weird things about them, which is more preoccupying.

tonypq

It's one thing they nerfed her tiles, they at least could have compensated by boosting maybe her permanent damage and giving her more bite. At least then she might raise the bar a bit for perm damage characters and elevate her niche a bit.

If the next 5 trash it's going to be BCs first stretch of having three very meh 5s in LLs at the same time. That was a normal occurrence with Demi but I didn't think it'd happen with BC.

I'm all for synergistic characters, but they shouldn't be so under tuned that they bring little to nothing unless permanently paired with a damage booster.

Mrcl25

@pepitedechocolat said:

Besides I dont think devs ever stated "she is not meant to be meta", on the contrary they teased she should be a strong contender even with nerfed numbers. (maybe they are fully mistaken, as it seems their QA process has had some setbacks lately)

That's the point, she was nerfed because, according to the devs, "she was nuts" before the nerf. They also said they wouldn't hesitate to change her again if needed, so I hope they can rebalance her somehow, sooner rather than later, as that would help people decide if they should pull from the current latest or not.

HoundofShadow

I'm going to focus on her kit as it is and ignore about other matters like how bad her damage is.

Here is the other interaction between Magik and Emma:

Magik's passive permanent damage = 35% of her match damage.
Emma will boost her permanent match damage by 85% + 2% per red ap.

The formula to calculate Magik's passive permanent match-3 damage is

**(Match-3 damage x 35%) x (85% + 2% per red ap) **

For example, Magik's black match-3 deals 1068 damage. Using the above formula, her total match damage dealt, including her passive permanent match damage is:

(1068x3) + ((1068x3x35%) x 85 % = 3204 + 2074 = 5278

Apocalypse's boost
Simply add his repeater damage boost to 5278 to get total damage for one black match-3

Strike tile boost

**(Match-3 damage x 35%) x (85% + 2% per red ap) + Strike Strength **

To make it clearer, assume there's a 548 strike on the board and her black match-3 deals 3204.

Her total match damage, including passive permanent damage and strike is calculated this way:

(3204+548) + ((3204x35%) x (85%) + 548)
= 6374.

Against Colossus
Here's a surprise thing against Colossus:
(3204 x 17%) + ((3204x35%) x (85%) = 2625
I would expect her to deal 35% of 551.

HoundofShadow

Phoenix Force Synergy
Cyclops/Magik/Emma

Cyclops will boost their base match damage, and Emma's passive boost to Magik's passive permanent match damage uses her base match damage to calculate the additional boosted permanent match damage.

Cyclops creates red for him to gain passive green ap indirectly and then let Emma use red to further boost the ability damage.

Bzhai

@tonypq said:
It's one thing they nerfed her tiles, they at least could have compensated by boosting maybe her permanent damage and giving her more bite. At least then she might raise the bar a bit for perm damage characters and elevate her niche a bit.

If the next 5 trash it's going to be BCs first stretch of having three very meh 5s in LLs at the same time. That was a normal occurrence with Demi but I didn't think it'd happen with BC.

I'm all for synergistic characters, but they shouldn't be so under tuned that they bring little to nothing unless permanently paired with a damage booster.

Yea, based on her powers you have 2 ways to play her. One is the slow burn strategy where you want to overwhelm the enemy with as many repeaters as possible. The other is pure match damage to take advantage of her red passive which you will want her as high level as possible to tank.

As of now her current live version does not excel at either because similar to Knull, the damage is too low. But unlike Knull she doesn't have an insane health pool or defensive mechanisms so she's not a threat in pvp either.

Bad

@HoundofShadow said:
I'm going to focus on her kit as it is and ignore about other matters like how bad her damage is.

**(Match-3 damage x 35%) x (85% + 2% per red ap) **

For example, Magik's black match-3 deals 1068 damage. Using the above formula, her total match damage dealt, including her passive permanent match damage is:

(1068x3) + ((1068x3x35%) x 85 % = 3204 + 2074 = 5278

Yeah. Permanent damage= 2074= chip damage.
A lot of numbers for to say she deals chip permanent damage with each mach she tanks.
Colossus can deal more damage and has a good nuke.

Bad

@dianetics said:
Aside from Daken, isn't all permanent damage is chip damage?

With apocalypse not. But it's needed to draw out his SS.
And with magik it's needed to magik tank over apocalypse.

Bad

Gargantos. Crystal too.
And apoc SS makes all the damage permanent.

HoundofShadow

Gargantos has the highest damage for permanent damage per enemy sap tiles destroyed(?). The highest I went was about 60k permanent damage with his black.

One note on Magik's active red: you gain aps for the enemy special tiles destroyed.

HoundofShadow

It's reliable if you find the perfect teammate.

fight4thedream

There seems to be some confusion regarding Magik's permanent damage:

The permanent damage aspect of the Red Passive Match damage does not take Apocalypse's boost into account.
It does account the for strike tiles though.

Not sure if that's intended behavior or not but I am not a fan of it not factoring in Apocalypse's boost.

Edited for clarity.

Bzhai

@fight4thedream said:
There seems to be some confusion regarding Magik's permanent damage:

Red Passive Match damage does not take Apocalypse's and I think Okoye's boost into account.
It does boost with strike tiles.

Not sure if that's intended behavior or not but I am not a fan of it not factoring in Apocalypse's boost.

So likely it will not work with Emma's passive boost either. So if the damage is calculated solely of match damage equipping boosts and upping her base match damage with Cycl5ps is probably the way to go. Guessing the number will go up too if you make a critical match.

pepitedechocolat

@fight4thedream said:
There seems to be some confusion regarding Magik's permanent damage:
Red Passive Match damage does not take Apocalypse's and I think Okoye's boost into account.
It does boost with strike tiles.

Not sure if that's intended behavior or not but I am not a fan of it not factoring in Apocalypse's boost.

thx for the report! I just went to sim to test with okoye, magic red passive works with okoye dmg boost

HoundofShadow

I tested her numbers multiple times, even writing it on paper. Her passive damage works with emma and apocalypse. However, I'ven never tested apocalypse + Magik without Emma.

I even wrote down the formula one page ago.