***** Magik (Phoenix Five) *****

Options
1…910121415…19

Comments

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,807 Chairperson of the Boards

    Her boosts are percenage based, and other boosts are flat damage based. Apoc and Wanda stack on Crystal. Her red repeaters boost appears to be addative to Emma and or Okoye/Apoc.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,091 Chairperson of the Boards

    There are a number of % boosts that stack and/or are match damage based. Like ph5 colossus and Killmonger. Or ph5 Emma and Adam warlock. I don’t know why you guys just don’t TRY stuff out and see for yourself. ESPECIALLY since BCS has taken over.

    That’s why I get annoyed with all the “this character blows” literally 5 seconds after being released WITHOUT EVEN TRYING ANYTHING. So just take a step back, re-evaluate what the powers are and how they work and how they could connect with other powers and other characters. Just look at all the sneaky buffs and changes done to some of the older characters and powers. Look at the new characters and powers since BCS has taken over.

    You’re not in Kansas anymore.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,807 Chairperson of the Boards

    I did try it out with okoye and Emma and it looks like ALL their boosts stack.

    Okoyes flat damage, Emma’s percentage, and Magiks per tile boost. Percentage boosts are generally additive and flat damage boosts choose which is higher.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I finally found the formula that was posted in reddit, which was supposedly revealed by Demiurge two years ago:

    "As explained by a dev, the formula is (base + % boost) + flat boost + strikes"

    With BCS in charge, it's better to start questioning and be more curious or keep an open-mind about how certain powers work together.

    And keep more ideas flowing.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    I did try it out with okoye and Emma and it looks like ALL their boosts stack.

    Okoyes flat damage, Emma’s percentage, and Magiks per tile boost. Percentage boosts are generally additive and flat damage boosts choose which is higher.

    Ok, so then the question becomes "is any of this intentional?"

    We have tons of precedent for boosts NOT stacking, and for match damage not being boost-able, so it's fair to make those assumptions unless that stuff is specifically stated in the character descriptions.

    Magik appears to be an exception to a bunch of these rules -- maybe she was done differently on purpose, or maybe all these interactions are bugged. The power descriptions don't indicate any of that. If these are unintentional, when the fixes show up it will hurt her significantly.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I finally found the formula that was posted in reddit, which was supposedly revealed by Demiurge two years ago:

    "As explained by a dev, the formula is (base + % boost) + flat boost + strikes"

    With BCS in charge, it's better to start questioning and be more curious or keep an open-mind about how certain powers work together.

    And keep more ideas flowing.

    OR -- and again, this is a crazy idea -- they could just actually tell us, in the power descriptions, whether boosts apply to a power or not, and how boosts stack. Why should that be kept secret?

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Tiger_Wong said:
    There are a number of % boosts that stack and/or are match damage based. Like ph5 colossus and Killmonger. Or ph5 Emma and Adam warlock. I don’t know why you guys just don’t TRY stuff out and see for yourself. ESPECIALLY since BCS has taken over.

    That’s why I get annoyed with all the “this character blows” literally 5 seconds after being released WITHOUT EVEN TRYING ANYTHING. So just take a step back, re-evaluate what the powers are and how they work and how they could connect with other powers and other characters. Just look at all the sneaky buffs and changes done to some of the older characters and powers. Look at the new characters and powers since BCS has taken over.

    You’re not in Kansas anymore.

    Well, the 'magik is trash' whining immediately post nerf was always over the top. But that's not to say that all characters from BCS are strong or good. For example, I'm not being overwhelmed by swarms, even in the post-wasp-rework world. Yes people should always caveat their opinions on characters pre-release, and yes BCS seems to put out higher-baseline 5*s than demi did. That doesn't mean that players need to stop evaluating new characters on paper.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    5 words added to her power description -- " this ability can be boosted" would have completely changed all the evaluations and the reactions to her change.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I doubt so because repeaters getting boosted by powers have been happening for years. The only big change is that % base damage can stack. Someone should just ask the dev for the formula to calculate damage boost of each catergory in the dev q&a.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    I doubt so because repeaters getting boosted by powers have been happening for years. The only big change is that % base damage can stack. Someone should just ask the dev for the formula to calculate damage boost of each catergory in the dev q&a.

    I mostly agree with this. The unusual thing here is that magik's own passive, % damage boost seems to be stacking with Emma's passive, % damage boost. This may be working as intended since magik's boost is flat and applies only to her, while emma's boost keys off of affiliations, which is a relatively rare boost type. so it's not inconceivable that they could stack, but we don't have a lot of valid comparisons to make in game.

    If you run IM46 with a team IM ally and emma how much damage does his red do?

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I guess the formula is (main damage + bonus damage) * Emma's boost.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Someone should try out Wong/Emma/Magik to see if Wong can further stack the % damage on Magik.

  • tonypq
    tonypq Posts: 557 Critical Contributor

    You guys think all the damage stacking is by design and not something we'll be told down the road is bug fix ?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Who knows since they don't talk.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    Who knows since they don't talk.

    Right, we have absolutely no idea whether or not this is intended, and it really, really affects how strong she is.

  • tonypq
    tonypq Posts: 557 Critical Contributor

    It's going to make a difference how hard people pull for her too. Even with the ability changes if the damage boosting stacks then I think quite a few players will pull for a decent amount of covers. Just tough not knowing if she's working as intended with the lack of input from BC.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,807 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    Ok, so then the question becomes "is any of this intentional?"

    We have tons of precedent for boosts NOT stacking, and for match damage not being boost-able, so it's fair to make those assumptions unless that stuff is specifically stated in the character descriptions.

    Magiks match damage bonus acts the same as Crystal...it is ability damage. Magiks match damage doesnt get boosted, her her bonus damage on an ability is boosted. 4* juggs is the outlier here.

    Magiks match damage is bonus damage/ability damage the same as Crystal or even Polaris or Morbius. It is a reaction to a specific condition.

    The stacking bonus's on % dmg increase is much more interesting. How is it calculated? It appears to be additive, but without a training dummy we cannot test it truthfully. My short hand testing showed that all Emma boosts and Magiks short boosts combined. Those were added to the final damage alongside Okoye.
    So both boosts were added to the final damage and did not interact with each other, but all percent based boosts were additive...so each percent added to the final output(they did not multiply it).
    Very similar to how 5witch boosts works with her passive and her blue.

    You are right we have precedent for like boosts not stacking, but those boosts are flat damage increases. But for % based increase we have very few sources to relate against. Just 5witch and Emma and nobody really uses Emma.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    Does Okoye boost the Polaris/Morbius abilities? The main negative example that I'm 100% sure about is 4* Juggernaut's passive, and that is definitely NOT boosted by anybody. I'm about 90% sure that OBW is the same way, because I remember people complaining about that one too.

    I think there's a post on here somewhere that compares all these abilities and asks for clarification on how/why some are boosted and some are not.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,757 Chairperson of the Boards

    ...aaaaaand, found it. Roadwarrior did a really extensive breakdown. The game is, in fact, incredibly inconsistent about what gets boosted and what doesn't.

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79221/wakanda-forever-how-does-it-even-work

Categories