***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Codex said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Eh, I really can't see anyone leaving Kang, Hit Monkey, or Wong out on defense for any length of time. Chasm will steamroll all those guys.

    These are probably offensive-only characters, which is sort of the problem with this type of counter.

    Isn't that what we or maybe just I want, an offensive counter that downs chasm quickly. If it's terrible on defense its a good thing because hopefully it opens up other counter teams to Kang monkey or Kang sw.

    What I don't want to see is endless Kang SW or Kang monkey, because then we just replaced one ad nauseum team with another.

    It's really, really hard to predict this because MPQ has such a hivemind-based metagame, and a lot of factors go into it beyond "who's the best character?"

    The problem here is that Chasm still beats everyone, including Kang, so the question will be: does Kang's existence make Chasm a defensive liability? If Kang beats Chasm so trivially that players will lose points by running Chasm, you'll see the metagame shift.

    I don't think we can answer that question just yet, but I think the answer is no. Counters like this just don't work in this game -- and Kang is an extremely powerful character on his own!

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 581 Critical Contributor
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    @CallTheStorm said:

    @killahKlown said:

    @CallTheStorm said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @bladewing said:

    @CallTheStorm said:
    One scenario will be interesting. Team A with Wong and team B with Kang. When Wong is away by his own power, Kang kill/send away other two members of team A. In this case, is team A Wong coming back right away or team B win instantly?

    It sounds like Team B will instantly win, if what Ice said on Discord is correct.

    This would give Wong the biggest suicide ability in the game. If you're using Team B with Kang against a Team A with Wong, you can just down the other 2 opposing toons, and leave all the purple for the computer-controlled Wong to snatch up. Wong then fires the purple and boom, you win!

    This does not bode well for Wong.

    But Wong will reduce up to 30% ability damage from Kang too.
    Now the question is if Hit Mokey/Wong/Kang's pool is worth going all in. When you can take those APs back, I feel Kang/Wong/Monkey team is very efficient at killing the immortal teams.
    Wong buffers Monkey, Kang keeps AP safe, and Monkey can kill villains (Chasm/ihulk) and prevent their reviving with cheap red power. Feel it's not a bad pool.

    You're not seeing the problem.

    I kill your monkey then collect blue for my Kang. You send your wong away, I use my Kang to send yours away. Match over, I win. And only had to down one character

    Please note following facts:
    Monkey red deals 35% extra to Kang,
    Wong gives another 30% extra on it,

    Have tested this? Not sure how you can claim this interaction is a fact if you haven't seen a real example of the mechanics

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    % damage doesn't stack. I remember lifting the mathematical formula from reddit, which was lifted from discord, for calculating the various types of damage buffs.
    Likewise, if you put someone to be be buffed by Okoye's passive and Apocalypse's passive, whoever has the higher damage buff will be used, instead of stacking on top of one another.

  • CallTheStorm
    CallTheStorm Posts: 63 Match Maker
    edited February 2023
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    @killahKlown said:

    @CallTheStorm said:

    @killahKlown said:

    @CallTheStorm said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @bladewing said:

    @CallTheStorm said:
    One scenario will be interesting. Team A with Wong and team B with Kang. When Wong is away by his own power, Kang kill/send away other two members of team A. In this case, is team A Wong coming back right away or team B win instantly?

    It sounds like Team B will instantly win, if what Ice said on Discord is correct.

    This would give Wong the biggest suicide ability in the game. If you're using Team B with Kang against a Team A with Wong, you can just down the other 2 opposing toons, and leave all the purple for the computer-controlled Wong to snatch up. Wong then fires the purple and boom, you win!

    This does not bode well for Wong.

    But Wong will reduce up to 30% ability damage from Kang too.
    Now the question is if Hit Mokey/Wong/Kang's pool is worth going all in. When you can take those APs back, I feel Kang/Wong/Monkey team is very efficient at killing the immortal teams.
    Wong buffers Monkey, Kang keeps AP safe, and Monkey can kill villains (Chasm/ihulk) and prevent their reviving with cheap red power. Feel it's not a bad pool.

    You're not seeing the problem.

    I kill your monkey then collect blue for my Kang. You send your wong away, I use my Kang to send yours away. Match over, I win. And only had to down one character

    Please note following facts:
    Monkey red deals 35% extra to Kang,
    Wong gives another 30% extra on it,

    Have tested this? Not sure how you can claim this interaction is a fact if you haven't seen a real example of the mechanics

    I missed the part of Wong cannot add additional damage. That's my bad. Other than that's, any other mistake?

    Again , I usually won't think too much about how do I beat the AI, as I said AI always plays dumb. With selected boost/tu, usually players can beat AI in many ways. What we can discuss is how will AI beats players and how easy will it be.

    In the worst scenario without cascade, a 450 Wong/Monkey team can kill a 450 Kang in 3-4 turns.
    Wong casts Hand of Hoggoth to generate 6 x 1460 Strike Tiles in the beginning, matches red 3 times (Wong's match damage), Monkey's red power. By the time Kang's 70312 health has left lower than 15% already.

  • Sp1d3r
    Sp1d3r Posts: 187 Tile Toppler
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    @Borstock said:
    Am I reading his blue right? If you get 27 blue AP, enough to fire it 3x in one turn, you win the match, don't you?

    Yes that's how I read it.. BRB and polaris will accumulate that pretty quick

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    We should have a race to see who can collect 27 blue aps for Kang in the fastest timing. :D

  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I wonder if a team him with 5* Hawkeye and Gargantos in pick 3 and can get 27 blue AP pretty quickly. 27 blue ap, match over. Hit Monkey may also be even quicker since with 6 purple you can get to 27 blue ap really fast in a couple of turns. Oh yeah you can also use boosts to get to 4 blue ap at the start of the match of course, so really we are talking about maybe only 23 blue AP to win in some cases.

    He seems to be an attempt at another hard Chasm counter and even other revive characters. I imagine that away does not trigger revive abilities and Chasm can't destroy his AP. This passive is a clock since you can't reduce his AP, although stun is an option.

    You will still take damage from Chulk teams but I think you should win pretty consistently against the AI. Chulk teams should be able to beat the AI Kang no problem too.

    Anyone who can generate blue to get him to 27 blue AP and survive long enough against Chulk is his partner. 5* SW, BRB, and Dr. Thor (potentially due to charged tiles and cascades).

    Heimdall probably isn't best choice since you have to use blue to reduce blue. 5* Kamala is good against non-Chulk teams but useless against them since that team never fires powers.

    There are a lot of 4* good matches too, but not useful against Chulk due to their low health.

    Any other combo idea's to get Kang to 27 Blue AP fast?

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,641 Chairperson of the Boards
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    In practice, I doubt the 27 blue AP will be the goal. It'll probably be 18 and one down. Guessing, of course.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Unless you're trying to do it for the "achievement" I don't think it's useful, practical, or even necessary to send all 3 enemies Away.

    With the majority of these combos it's going to take a while to get to 27, and unless it's a challenge node or a 5* feature PvP, you'll almost certainly have killed at least one guy by then.

    It's much better to think of this power as a shortcut that lets you instakill one enemy, cutting every Kang fight down by 1/3. That is insanely powerful!

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,546 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Realistically you only need to send 1 person away.
    In pick 2, gather AP down the required character. Target the character you want to keep on the battlefield, and when you are sure you have enough damage to down that character within 4 turns, then send the away target away.
    In PvE it may be beneficial to send 2 away on the CL10 challenge node, but 3 seems like a stretch.

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Sp1d3r said:

    @Borstock said:
    Am I reading his blue right? If you get 27 blue AP, enough to fire it 3x in one turn, you win the match, don't you?

    Yes that's how I read it.. BRB and polaris will accumulate that pretty quick

    I believe Kang has to place the CD to send the Enemy away. By the time you get 27 Blue with BRB/Polaris there won't be any basic tiles to place the CD.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Kang Shards are out. My fastest timing was 35 seconds. Can anyone do it in 25 seconds?

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2023
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    Lol, Chasm got a new bff.

    https://streamable.com/8gu5yf

    Hit Monkey better with Chasm imo.

    The loop continues ........................

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ha ha. Kang's animation for his black power is so cute - like he is excited for a birthday party!

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If you target iHulk first and send Chasm away, match could end faster.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler
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    @HoundofShadow said:
    If you target iHulk first and send Chasm away, match could end faster.

    Take your pick however you like. The "immortality" still play the same. Away means nothing, unless it's all remaining character.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler
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    Also if all blues tiles are not basic, you can't send any away.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    That blue power. Ha ha, insane. I only have one cover in it and man it is so broken. Hilarious!

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,546 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Chasm heals up if web tiles are matched and has much more health.
    iHulk self damages pretty heavy and has much less health though. Your team will likely take less damage and require less turns if you send Chasm away and keep iHulk out.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler
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    @dianetics said:
    Chasm heals up if web tiles are matched and has much more health.
    iHulk self damages pretty heavy and has much less health though. Your team will likely take less damage and require less turns if you send Chasm away and keep iHulk out.

    How are you downing Hulk with Chasm away ?