I can’t believe it’s not a Chasm nerf thread

Pantera236

Also just to add when SS was boosted I seen a bunch of people complaining that his black was too expensive and never fired it. I paired him with Wanda and literally fired it every match, sometimes twice.

entrailbucket

@Pantera236 said:
Also just to add when SS was boosted I seen a bunch of people complaining that his black was too expensive and never fired it. I paired him with Wanda and literally fired it every match, sometimes twice.

I'm sure it's perfectly fine when boosted. I posted that but I wasn't complaining-- I never had a chance to cast it because every enemy team was dead (including tons of 550 Chasms) before I ever got close to 12 black.

Pantera236

Yeah it wasn't targeted at you, you weren't complaining that he was useless. I'm more saying that people that say there is no way to get AP against chasm just need to think of other teams. Having said that I think his AP drain combined with abyss tiles not letting you gain AP is a little much. At least old school Gambit didn't actually deny you getting AP, just drained it.

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@MrDupaTM said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

That’s ok with me. Let’s make him a bottom tier, I won’t mind.

I remember the day they finally announced the Gambit nerf. All those players who spent $10,000 or more maxing him out (or scraping together and saving their meager rewards for months) because they thought they'd win everything forever, suddenly getting the rug yanked out from under them, reminded that it's not their game, it's the developers', and they can take away your toys anytime they want.

It was... beautiful. I hope to see it again someday.

The Rollbacks after anniversary are pretty high up there, too.

Bad

Let's say I started liking chasm and now I despise him.
So now I have to try to get 1200 points without playing a chahulk team.
I only need to use 2 +2 AP and+2 All in every battle.
If I don't have SS because I didn't start playing the game since it begun, I need possibly 2 health packs each battle, depending on the first turn taking a lot of damage on cascades, Ihulk AoE and chasm passive.
Now I need a nice cascade in order to win AP quickly before chasm throws dirt in all the board.
Now I need to hop on every battle because anyone will target a non chasm team which is easier.
And that's all. Easy. I wonder why pvp lost 500 points in every rank threshold, being everything so easy lol.

GrimSkald

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

Wanda is good at getting more AP you want with her purple. Brb, especially once you get his blue out, passively gets you AP. If you don't have those characters at a high enough level Jane and Riri work great, albeit not so great on defense.

Wanda's purple is her strongest color, so any time you have Wanda in front, you lose 3 purple. This makes it much more difficult to get out, basically you need to get a bunch in a single turn. Boosting doesn't help much - those 2 AP go away the first time she matches something other than purple.

BRB is a little better, but you still need some kind of AP gain to get it out, and you'd better pray you do so before Chasm covers all the blue tiles with void or web tiles. You've also lost his first turn protects. He's still not a great choice.

Basically your only reliable choices are characters who do board shake every turn, and even they still have their own problems - Jane looses her first turn charged tiles so her speed is cut by a lot, Half-Thor exists, I guess, but only a mad person leaves them out in PVP. You can bring Chasm/iHulk yourself, but once the board fills up with web tiles you will long for death by the time the fight ends.

Or, I guess, you can bring a good TU. A poor solution.

HoundofShadow

Abigail's passive destroys 1 ap in enemy's strongest colour whenever a cd or repeater goes to zero once per turn. One of her pairing was Wanda. Not a decent counter to that but the point is 1 ap drain per turn is insignificant. If you do a match-3, it will take Chasm three turns to drain 3 aps in strongest colours, if it's toned down.

I remember the dev saying that there will be some upcoming change(?) to this meta a week or two ago. Alternatively, we can wait for Dev Q&A to see what else they plan to do to this meta.

As for slice 2 or 5, I've been there before. It's easy to get T5 or T10 if you're willing to spend HP for shield hopping. If that slice is full of 7X Chasm from 9XX to 1200 points since September/October, I don't mind going there.

The wait for Chasm's nerf/effortless counter continues...

Next 5* release happens on 02/09. Soon...?

entrailbucket

@HoundofShadow said:
Abigail's passive destroys 1 ap in enemy's strongest colour whenever a cd or repeater goes to zero once per turn. One of her pairing was Wanda. Not a decent counter to that but the point is 1 ap drain per turn is insignificant. If you do a match-3, it will take Chasm three turns to drain 3 aps in strongest colours, if it's toned down.

I remember the dev saying that there will be some upcoming change(?) to this meta a week or two ago. Alternatively, we can wait for Dev Q&A to see what else they plan to do to this meta.

As for slice 2 or 5, I've been there before. It's easy to get T5 or T10 if you're willing to spend HP for shield hopping. If that slice is full of 7X Chasm from 9XX to 1200 points since September/October, I don't mind going there.

The wait for Chasm's nerf/effortless counter continues...

Next 5* release happens on 02/09. Soon...?

Slice 1 is full of 75 point fights. Other slices are...not.

Last event in s2, I did about 110 fights in a bit less than 2 hours overall -- half Chasm/half other teams, and shielded 5 minutes from the end at 1200. I was #1 in my bracket by a mile. I didn't find any fight worth more than about 40 points. Most of my fights were worth between 5 and 7 points after crossing 900. I lost 500 points or so to attacks, and dumped another 600 or 700 purposely, to smash those attackers in retaliation.

Since you're such a skilled player, why not try to do the same? It should be quite easy for you.

Pantera236

@GrimSkald said:

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

Wanda is good at getting more AP you want with her purple. Brb, especially once you get his blue out, passively gets you AP. If you don't have those characters at a high enough level Jane and Riri work great, albeit not so great on defense.

Wanda's purple is her strongest color, so any time you have Wanda in front, you lose 3 purple. This makes it much more difficult to get out, basically you need to get a bunch in a single turn. Boosting doesn't help much - those 2 AP go away the first time she matches something other than purple.

BRB is a little better, but you still need some kind of AP gain to get it out, and you'd better pray you do so before Chasm covers all the blue tiles with void or web tiles. You've also lost his first turn protects. He's still not a great choice.

Basically your only reliable choices are characters who do board shake every turn, and even they still have their own problems - Jane looses her first turn charged tiles so her speed is cut by a lot, Half-Thor exists, I guess, but only a mad person leaves them out in PVP. You can bring Chasm/iHulk yourself, but once the board fills up with web tiles you will long for death by the time the fight ends.

Or, I guess, you can bring a good TU. A poor solution.

If you take +2 all +2 r/y and +2 p/blue and put Wanda on the right apoc on the left and take loaner required (if their top color is red yellow or purple, otherwise you can take full strength) so they die on your 1st stunned turn apoc will jump up front and chasm will take black. Turn 2 (your 1st turn after being stunned) you put Wanda's purple on red, then match yellow asap. Doesn't take long before the required character is down, chasm and ihulk are low enough in health and you've got apocs repeaters out and 7 red.

For brb it's the exact same basically you are just going for that initial blue match to get his blue going and yellow to get apocs going.

These aren't theory crafting either. I've won hundreds of matches with them.

HoundofShadow

I've hit 1200 points in S2 or S5 before and you just need to shield hop (without coordination). I've done that a few times before in the past. The main differences between S1 and these two slices are more wins needed: 18-22 vs ~ 26-28, and more HP needed: 150-300 vs ~1500. If you did 110 fights in 120 minutes, each match took about 1 minute and I guess you broke mmr and was hitting 3/4 team? If you are challenging me to play 110 fights for 2 hours, I can't do that. I'm hitting 1200 points/18-22 wins in about 45-50minutes in slice 1.

If players still can't gather ap to fire powers, it might prove that they still don't understand how Chasm's power works, assuming they are bringing some team that counters them. If they are putting any two characters together, then it's another story.

In Ultron/Gargantos boost week, I was hitting 6X and 7X Chasm/iHulk team 4-5 times per pvp, and I also beat a couple 550 Chasm + champed iHulk with baby champed boosted Ultron/Gargantos. And my retals didn't come from Chasm/iHulk, it came from Gargantos/Ultron players I hit along the way. For the past few weeks, I don't remember seeing Chasm/iHulk dominate pvps

entrailbucket

I did not. The vast majority of those fights were against champion 5*. About half were against Chasm.

So we can easily see the difference in your play style. You do 20 fights per event. I do 5 times as many fights as you, often more than that.

You probably never get attacked or lose points. I get attacked constantly and deal with those attacks by dumping and retaliating excessively.

I allow myself between 30 seconds and a minute per match. You have no problem playing a single match for 5 minutes or more.

You have the game's difficulty permanently set to "very easy." I have it set to "very hard," and you can't understand why the game is easier for you.

Here's a hint -- it's not skill.

HoundofShadow

I think I mentioned hitting 1200 in 26-28 wins in slice 2 or 5. I don't remember saying spending 5 minutes per match. My average match is about 1.5-2 minutes. I'm done with pvp (hit 1200) in ~45-50minutes.

I would like to finish matches in 30 - 60 seconds as well. What's your secret?

entrailbucket

Skill. Analyze the board state post-enemy-move as quickly as possible. Start making your move before he's finished his, every time.

Get 6ap minimum every time you move the board. Identify match-4 and 5s or matches that cascade into match-4s and 5s, quickly.

I don't believe you got to 1200 in s2, and if you did, you certainly did not do it in 26 fights.

Again, what you're doing in s1 is not at all difficult. A child could do this. It requires zero skill to win a few high point fights in a leisurely fashion while suffering no attacks. It's also extraordinarily boring, which is why I have no interest in playing that way. Win 100 or 200 low-point fights against Chasm in a minute or less each and let us know how easy he is.

HoundofShadow

Next time I head to slice 2 or 5, I'll take a video of my mmr opponenents. As long as you're willing to spend hp, it's not difficult.

I want to say I can't guarantee getting 6ap min most turns and I can't guarantee match-4/5 that will lead to another match-4/5. That answers why you could finish matches in 30-60 seconds while I'm taking 90-120 seconds per match.

I think some S1 players would disagree with what you said. I think we've quite a number of S1 players in this forum. Some of them mentioned getting attacked while climbing, throwing them back to 900(?) range. Any S1 players agree or disagree with that?

entrailbucket

@HoundofShadow said:
Next time I head to slice 2 or 5, I'll take a video of my mmr opponenents. As long as you're willing to spend hp, it's not difficult.

I want to say I can't guarantee getting 6ap min most turns and I can't guarantee match-4/5 that will lead to another match-4/5. That answers why you could finish matches in 30-60 seconds while I'm taking 90-120 seconds per match.

I think some S1 players would disagree with what you said. I think we've quite a number of S1 players in this forum. Some of them mentioned getting attacked while climbing, throwing them back to 900(?) range. Any S1 players agree or disagree with that?

Do those players also only fight 75 point matches? Do you ever get attacked while climbing?

My guess is that you've managed to luck into a start time that coincides with many of the BC players finishing their climbs. They won't retaliate for 1 point against you, and any other active snipers are going after higher points than you've got. I don't know why the scorers aren't dumping and enforcing you, or sending other enforcers after you, but maybe nobody does that anymore.

Anyway, your attitude toward the metagame appears to be unique because of your unique play style.

HoundofShadow

I do get attacked and the frequencies depend on how many hours are left, and who's boosted. For example, in the last pvp, I got attacked twice. When I was playing 5 or fewer hours before S1 ends, I get attacked 6-10 or more times. If I'm playing with <24 hours but >10 hours left, I hardly get attacked (~ 1 to 3 times)

I think my luck must have gone to pvps these ~2 years. If only it went to pulling from special stores. I'm fine with that tradeoff.

Codex

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

Wanda is good at getting more AP you want with her purple. Brb, especially once you get his blue out, passively gets you AP. If you don't have those characters at a high enough level Jane and Riri work great, albeit not so great on defense.

Wanda's purple is her strongest color, so any time you have Wanda in front, you lose 3 purple. This makes it much more difficult to get out, basically you need to get a bunch in a single turn. Boosting doesn't help much - those 2 AP go away the first time she matches something other than purple.

BRB is a little better, but you still need some kind of AP gain to get it out, and you'd better pray you do so before Chasm covers all the blue tiles with void or web tiles. You've also lost his first turn protects. He's still not a great choice.

Basically your only reliable choices are characters who do board shake every turn, and even they still have their own problems - Jane looses her first turn charged tiles so her speed is cut by a lot, Half-Thor exists, I guess, but only a mad person leaves them out in PVP. You can bring Chasm/iHulk yourself, but once the board fills up with web tiles you will long for death by the time the fight ends.

Or, I guess, you can bring a good TU. A poor solution.

If you take +2 all +2 r/y and +2 p/blue and put Wanda on the right apoc on the left and take loaner required (if their top color is red yellow or purple, otherwise you can take full strength) so they die on your 1st stunned turn apoc will jump up front and chasm will take black. Turn 2 (your 1st turn after being stunned) you put Wanda's purple on red, then match yellow asap. Doesn't take long before the required character is down, chasm and ihulk are low enough in health and you've got apocs repeaters out and 7 red.

For brb it's the exact same basically you are just going for that initial blue match to get his blue going and yellow to get apocs going.

These aren't theory crafting either. I've won hundreds of matches with them.

Follow up questions
1) are you using 450ish or 500ish or 550 apoc, Wanda?
2) is this against 450ish or 500ish or 550 chasm ihulk?

Pantera236

@Codex said:

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@Pantera236 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

Wanda is good at getting more AP you want with her purple. Brb, especially once you get his blue out, passively gets you AP. If you don't have those characters at a high enough level Jane and Riri work great, albeit not so great on defense.

Wanda's purple is her strongest color, so any time you have Wanda in front, you lose 3 purple. This makes it much more difficult to get out, basically you need to get a bunch in a single turn. Boosting doesn't help much - those 2 AP go away the first time she matches something other than purple.

BRB is a little better, but you still need some kind of AP gain to get it out, and you'd better pray you do so before Chasm covers all the blue tiles with void or web tiles. You've also lost his first turn protects. He's still not a great choice.

Basically your only reliable choices are characters who do board shake every turn, and even they still have their own problems - Jane looses her first turn charged tiles so her speed is cut by a lot, Half-Thor exists, I guess, but only a mad person leaves them out in PVP. You can bring Chasm/iHulk yourself, but once the board fills up with web tiles you will long for death by the time the fight ends.

Or, I guess, you can bring a good TU. A poor solution.

If you take +2 all +2 r/y and +2 p/blue and put Wanda on the right apoc on the left and take loaner required (if their top color is red yellow or purple, otherwise you can take full strength) so they die on your 1st stunned turn apoc will jump up front and chasm will take black. Turn 2 (your 1st turn after being stunned) you put Wanda's purple on red, then match yellow asap. Doesn't take long before the required character is down, chasm and ihulk are low enough in health and you've got apocs repeaters out and 7 red.

For brb it's the exact same basically you are just going for that initial blue match to get his blue going and yellow to get apocs going.

These aren't theory crafting either. I've won hundreds of matches with them.

Follow up questions
1) are you using 450ish or 500ish or 550 apoc, Wanda?
2) is this against 450ish or 500ish or 550 chasm ihulk?

I have 550 both apoc and Wanda, and iirc 525 brb. Because of that though I, on my climb anyway, am fighting pretty much exclusively 550 chasm's and quite a bit of them are 500 -550 ihulks. Jane Riri is terrible on defense. My float point with them was like 500 points 🤣 I just like using them to poke fun at all the people that went all in on chasm, and a lot of them upped their ihulks too, and I can easily beat them with a 50x Jane and a 480 Riri. It's the simple things in life.

Bad

After Hound's hit "I don't see any chasm and I can prove it " comes "I can play in any slice finding 75 points battles and I will prove it".
Whatever all players could be experiencing, he isn't and also in the opposite way. Awesome!
By the way, playing in S1 as always, 550 points and I'm t49. No 75 points, only chasm for 40 so I will wait for later. As always.

Codex

Thanks. I have seen a few Riri Jane, glad this team works. I am close to 450 Riri.

I have not seen any hit monkey, I was hoping sw and monkey would be a good counter.