I can’t believe it’s not a Chasm nerf thread

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: New Character - ***** Wong (Sorcerer Supreme) *****.

entrailbucket

Unless it cost AP, then you'd never get to use it against Chasm.

HoundofShadow

How many people still finding the "perfect" counter for Chasm/iHulk?

Timemachinego

@HoundofShadow said:
How many people still finding the "perfect" counter for Chasm/iHulk?

This entire forum has gone around and around with you on this. There are many counters, none are fast or defensive so the best answer to chasm/ihulk is chasm/ihulk and it's painfully boring.

HoundofShadow

That's true. However, I don't remember anyone defining what fast means. If anyone could define fast in terms of minutes and seconds in winning matches against Chasm/iHulk, assuming similar mmr, that would be insightful (to the dev team). So, winning matches against Chasm/iHulk in pick-2 and pick-3 in how many minutes and seconds is considered fast, assuming similar mmr for both teams?

Timemachinego

@HoundofShadow said:
That's true. However, I don't remember anyone defining what fast means. If anyone could define fast in terms of minutes and seconds in winning matches against Chasm/iHulk, assuming similar mmr, that would be insightful (to the dev team). So, winning matches against Chasm/iHulk in pick-2 and pick-3 in how many minutes and seconds is considered fast, assuming similar mmr for both teams?

Fast would probably be something like 90s or under but then we throw in the caveat of reliable also, so that if you queue'd up a couple of those matches you'd come out ahead on a hop or high climb. Risk/reward are not part of my calculations when I'm trying to reach a shield, just yes/no. I realize that's anti-fun, but final climb to shield in PVP generally isn't.

I know personally that if I'm aiming for 1k (which is my alliance min) I can ride up to like 850 (last 24hrs of event but BEFORE last 11~, single 5 champ mmr) in s1 with whatever teams I like (and I do enjoy playing non-meta boosted teams when I can) but I need either some very fat queues or a very fast team (think 60s max per match) to make the scramble past that.

HoundofShadow

When I'm using boosted characters against boosted characters, my matches can take between 90 to 150 seconds. Matches that end in under a minutes using boosted 5* are your high DPS characters like SC or mThor boosted. That probably why I'm fine with ~ 2 minutes match against 7X points iHulk/Chasm.

Timemachinego

@HoundofShadow said:
When I'm using boosted characters against boosted characters, my matches can take between 90 to 150 seconds. Matches that end in under a minutes using boosted 5* are your high DPS characters like SC or mThor boosted. That probably why I'm fine with ~ 2 minutes match against 7X points iHulk/Chasm.

tbf I'd be fine with ~2 minutes if I was only finding 7x point matches; usually at the last 100~ points of my climb I'm lucky to find 4x that I know I can take out let alone in a reasonable time. I realize that's largely a timing game and one of my weakest points, I really need to start recording when I do find multiple juicy targets out and about. On my climb to shield for Namora I saw multiple 70+ and it took a great deal of stress off (was around 19 hours from end, for whatever reason). Granted half of those were allies that I skipped and I gave the other half a few minutes to shield up (it's just polite).

Timemachinego

Whatever the thread title is I still say nerf Chasm.

At the very least turn down his AP drain; opening stun and revival/heal mechanics are more than enough already. He'll still be quite powerful, just not intolerable to deal with. Characters that shape the meta are good and expected. Characters that dominate the meta are bad.

entrailbucket

This is the same thing that happened with Gambit, Bishop, and all the rest. Every question, no matter how unrelated, eventually turns into "Chasm is too good."

GrimSkald

@Timemachinego said:
Whatever the thread title is I still say nerf Chasm.

At the very least turn down his AP drain; opening stun and revival/heal mechanics are more than enough already. He'll still be quite powerful, just not intolerable to deal with. Characters that shape the meta are good and expected. Characters that dominate the meta are bad.

This is what I say. There's a lot about Chasm that is just a hair too good, but the thing that makes him agonizingly boring to play against is the AP drain. He is the perfect counter for any character that requires AP to use their powers, which is, you know, almost all of them. It doesn't matter if you have a 9 AP power that reads "kill Chasm instantly and prevent him from reviving himself" - you're never going to get that 9AP to cast it without jumping through a lot of hoops.

HoundofShadow

You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

BriMan2222

Gargantos drain is linked to a countdown tile, which can easily be destroyed in a variety of ways and it drains a random color, not your strongest color which is often the color you need the most.

If gargantos drained 1 ap passively and it drained colors by strongest in the exact same way as chasm does it would probably be much more of an issue because it wouldn't be so ridiculously easy to avoid or to be in a color that doesn't matter to you at all. Comparing gargantos terrible ap drain to chasms best ap drain in the game is not a good comparison.

GrimSkald

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

entrailbucket

@HoundofShadow said:
When I'm using boosted characters against boosted characters, my matches can take between 90 to 150 seconds. Matches that end in under a minutes using boosted 5* are your high DPS characters like SC or mThor boosted. That probably why I'm fine with ~ 2 minutes match against 7X points iHulk/Chasm.

You exclusively play in the first PvP end time, correct? For the next event, choose the second or fifth end time, and see how your experience changes.

entrailbucket

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

See, here's the thing...95% of the 5* tier is "useless" except during their boost week. Why is Chasm an exception to this rule? Does he have more stars? Is he more difficult to get? Where in the game can I see that he's meant to be usable when unboosted, when no other characters have that designation?

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@HoundofShadow said:
When I'm using boosted characters against boosted characters, my matches can take between 90 to 150 seconds. Matches that end in under a minutes using boosted 5* are your high DPS characters like SC or mThor boosted. That probably why I'm fine with ~ 2 minutes match against 7X points iHulk/Chasm.

You exclusively play in the first PvP end time, correct? For the next event, choose the second or fifth end time, and see how your experience changes.

"Come to S2, we have cookies!"

entrailbucket

He's permanently moved the difficulty slider on the game to "very easy," and cannot understand why those of us who play on medium or hard are having a different experience.

MrDupaTM

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

That’s ok with me. Let’s make him a bottom tier, I won’t mind.

Pantera236

@GrimSkald said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

You keep saying that, and yet I've played any number of games against him where I literally have never been able to fire a single power. Tell us your magical way of gaining AP against Chasm so you can fire powers, I want to hear it.

Wanda is good at getting more AP you want with her purple. Brb, especially once you get his blue out, passively gets you AP. If you don't have those characters at a high enough level Jane and Riri work great, albeit not so great on defense.

entrailbucket

@MrDupaTM said:

@HoundofShadow said:
You tone down all that and he's useless.

1) No team stun = useless against start of game special tile characters. That's one of his key draws.
2) Ap drain reduced to 1 = insignificant. Gargantos' 1 ap drain is living proof. Do you feel any pinch when he drains only one ap? If players felt anything about 1 ap drain per turn, his ap drain mechanic would be nerfed.
3) Toned down revival/heal = a better OML true heal

Because he's so slow at draining ap, and players are brushing off his ap drain, his passive damage and match damage boost will be weaken due to high average ap.

With the above changes, he's not meta and will be reduced to (higher) bottom tier.

You don't need to jump through a lot of hoops, you just need to understand how his draining works step by step.

That’s ok with me. Let’s make him a bottom tier, I won’t mind.

I remember the day they finally announced the Gambit nerf. All those players who spent $10,000 or more maxing him out (or scraping together and saving their meager rewards for months) because they thought they'd win everything forever, suddenly getting the rug yanked out from under them, reminded that it's not their game, it's the developers', and they can take away your toys anytime they want.

It was... beautiful. I hope to see it again someday.