Upcoming 5-Star (11/17 release): No 3-Star Version

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    A new 3* that rewards a Reptil cover, as an example, doesn't help early players because they are not going to actively pursue champing him regardless of where his feeder line goes. For newer players it will be heavily reliant on how important/effective the 4* earned is and how it helps them progress. Otherwise that is just covers that will end up sold for Iso rather than a precious roster slot and an abandoned 4* with some shards.

    @NemoAbernnigan said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's not more rewards. Some simple math will show that.

    Before September, there were 47 3*. For really veteran players, 3* farm turns about twice a year. We have 47 * 113 covers * 2 = 10, 622 3* covers in a year.

    Right now, we have 49 3*. The number of times 3* farm turn is 10,622 / (49*113) = 1.92 times a year.

    As you can see, your 3* farm turns slower the more 3* you have. Also, the closer your characters are to max champed, the better your rewards are.

    The dev needs to insert additional 11074 - 10622 = 452 covers a year for it to be termed more rewards.

    That assumes that you farm all 3* which I don't think is necessarily the case for all. I don't have a farm for all 49, maybe half that. So switching out which 3* I am building at any given moment doesn't necessarily impact to the degree above but every 3* added does mean I have less chance to get whatever 3* I am chasing in the farms I do have running.

    I agree it is not more rewards overall though but it is potentially more targeted rewards if it opens up lines of feeders to 4* who never had 3* feeders in the past and they then lead to new 5* fed. But that is a different thing to what I think is being suggested?

    Wait, if you're running farms why wouldn't you be farming all 3s? What about when you get a cover for a max champed 3? Isn't it kind of a waste to just trash it for ISO?

    I'm not sure where I stand on the influx of new 3*s debate but this bit confused me haha.

    Edit: I didn't know why that one line is in italics, I didn't format it. Strange.

    I was trying to stay below 300 slots. When I get there maybe my thinking will change. Max champed 3 is a 50/50 - do I need to keep that Max champ? Sometimes I will sell and restart. But I have enough dupe farms going to be able to be OK for now.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    It's important to realize how is a new player situation, also for the concerned forumers:
    A new player can't freely choose, so their best tools will be the available characters at that moment.
    If they started playing consistently 2 months ago, very well could happen that they landed a good set of reptile covers, in that case could happen that effectively reptile is their mvp character.
    Following that logic, new players getting a lot of arcade covers now could be more than happy and won't have clue about what concerned players would be talking about.
    And this is what gacha games are all about: to give reliable tools to anyone playing regardless of their roster strength (and this important fact is continually forgotten on this forum).

  • NemoAbernnigan
    NemoAbernnigan Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    @DAZ0273 said:
    A new 3* that rewards a Reptil cover, as an example, doesn't help early players because they are not going to actively pursue champing him regardless of where his feeder line goes. For newer players it will be heavily reliant on how important/effective the 4* earned is and how it helps them progress. Otherwise that is just covers that will end up sold for Iso rather than a precious roster slot and an abandoned 4* with some shards.

    @NemoAbernnigan said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's not more rewards. Some simple math will show that.

    Before September, there were 47 3*. For really veteran players, 3* farm turns about twice a year. We have 47 * 113 covers * 2 = 10, 622 3* covers in a year.

    Right now, we have 49 3*. The number of times 3* farm turn is 10,622 / (49*113) = 1.92 times a year.

    As you can see, your 3* farm turns slower the more 3* you have. Also, the closer your characters are to max champed, the better your rewards are.

    The dev needs to insert additional 11074 - 10622 = 452 covers a year for it to be termed more rewards.

    That assumes that you farm all 3* which I don't think is necessarily the case for all. I don't have a farm for all 49, maybe half that. So switching out which 3* I am building at any given moment doesn't necessarily impact to the degree above but every 3* added does mean I have less chance to get whatever 3* I am chasing in the farms I do have running.

    I agree it is not more rewards overall though but it is potentially more targeted rewards if it opens up lines of feeders to 4* who never had 3* feeders in the past and they then lead to new 5* fed. But that is a different thing to what I think is being suggested?

    Wait, if you're running farms why wouldn't you be farming all 3s? What about when you get a cover for a max champed 3? Isn't it kind of a waste to just trash it for ISO?

    I'm not sure where I stand on the influx of new 3*s debate but this bit confused me haha.

    Edit: I didn't know why that one line is in italics, I didn't format it. Strange.

    I was trying to stay below 300 slots. When I get there maybe my thinking will change. Max champed 3 is a 50/50 - do I need to keep that Max champ? Sometimes I will sell and restart. But I have enough dupe farms going to be able to be OK for now.

    I've got everyone but Havok and 5* Arcade rostered and I'm still only at like 272 roster slots or so, with a forced roster of 1* Juggernaut ready to drop whenever needed. I did sell off some of my farm leading up to and during the anniversary to make room for new characters and keep HP for vaults as high as I could, but prior to that I was waiting til my dupe was champed to sell the maxed version and still had plenty of room before hitting 300. I don't level the whole farm fast enough for it to really become an issue, but I'm only in 4* land, still got like half of them unchamped. Regardless though, as you pointed out, it's rarely necessary to have more than one cover for a 3* to fulfill its purpose once you move beyond 3* land, so I'd rather sell off the maxed version and reroster a single cover in the farm than just let that crop whither on the vine. But yeah, definitely don't need to keep a full stock off maxed 3*s for your farm to run effectively.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Using Reptil in your

    @Bad said:
    It's important to realize how is a new player situation, also for the concerned forumers:
    A new player can't freely choose, so their best tools will be the available characters at that moment.
    If they started playing consistently 2 months ago, very well could happen that they landed a good set of reptile covers, in that case could happen that effectively reptile is their mvp character.
    Following that logic, new players getting a lot of arcade covers now could be more than happy and won't have clue about what concerned players would be talking about.
    And this is what gacha games are all about: to give reliable tools to anyone playing regardless of their roster strength (and this important fact is continually forgotten on this forum).

    How can it be forgotten when you are constantly reminding everybody that this is a "gacha" game? ;)

    I run a new player friendly Alliance so I get a little sneak peak sometimes on how newer players approach the game which now has vastly bloated 4* tiers. Last time I checked our newer players hadn't bothered to roster Reptil if they had the chance at him...but of course that doesn't speak for the larger player base out there. Perhaps there is a world where new players have Reptil favourited and Polaris covers are sold for iso.

    On the other hand I would expect them to be rostering 3* Arcade because it absolutely rained covers for him (and seems to still be doing so).

  • NemoAbernnigan
    NemoAbernnigan Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    I have Reptil favorited! He feeds Havok, the last 5* I haven't rostered aside from 5* Arcade.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @NemoAbernnigan said:
    I have Reptil favorited! He feeds Havok, the last 5* I haven't rostered aside from 5* Arcade.

    Yeah but you are not a 3* player are you? I have every 4* champed bar Deathlok, Reptil and Doop (he is 4/4/4) and I am struggling to find reasons to care about Reptil.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    @NemoAbernnigan said:
    I have Reptil favorited! He feeds Havok, the last 5* I haven't rostered aside from 5* Arcade.

    Yeah but you are not a 3* player are you? I have every 4* champed bar Deathlok, Reptil and Doop (he is 4/4/4) and I am struggling to find reasons to care about Reptil.

    He feeds Havoc.
    That's it. His only use.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bowgentle said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @NemoAbernnigan said:
    I have Reptil favorited! He feeds Havok, the last 5* I haven't rostered aside from 5* Arcade.

    Yeah but you are not a 3* player are you? I have every 4* champed bar Deathlok, Reptil and Doop (he is 4/4/4) and I am struggling to find reasons to care about Reptil.

    He feeds Havoc.
    That's it. His only use.

    Right - hardly a priority for 3* players!

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It’s pretty easy to champ Polaris as a new player, isn’t it? Through shards and milestones? Hopefully no one has to break into the 4* meta with Reptil.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It depends on how much those players play. In another thread, I think dianetics expects to champ his first 4* at around day 365 on his second account that mimics super casual players.

    New players who play full progression will likely to champ newest 4* faster (due to 5 essentials that flood players with new 4* covers + recent 3* feeding newest 4* trend) than they can champ a classic 4*. Polaris would probably be their third to fifth 4*.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,274 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    I actually see the junior players in my alliance with like 2-3 champed 3*, and a bunch of weakly covered 4 and 5; generally a combination of characters they think are cool due to fiction but may be mechanically not great, or just the ones most recently offered/given out. The more experienced players generally give them the advice to build a low tier roster engine instead of chasing those characters, but across the board they seem to be trying to graduate out of the 2 and 3* tier ASAP, which doesn't align much with a low end player wanting to languish in those tiers and collect more 3s. Like we really have to convince these people, they don't immediately feel the wisdom of it at all.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    On my country there is a saying:"better a bird in the hand than thousand of birds flying".
    If a new player suddenly has all powers for reptil and something more, effectively reptil can be his first or second best character as I said he doesn't have anything more.
    Not really so hard to understand imo.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It could be due to them wanting to focus on their favourite characters, which happen to be spread across the tiers. The best way to know the answers is probably to ask them why. :D

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @HoundofShadow said:
    It depends on how much those players play. In another thread, I think dianetics expects to champ his first 4* at around day 365 on his second account that mimics super casual players.

    New players who play full progression will likely to champ newest 4* faster (due to 5 essentials that flood players with new 4* covers + recent 3* feeding newest 4* trend) than they can champ a classic 4*. Polaris would probably be their third to fifth 4*.

    They will champ newest 4* that are good because they don't (unless they are spending) have the capacity to carry bad characters. I would agree that if a character is a persons favourite that that could influence choice but mostly it is going to be more focused.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,915 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bad said:
    On my country there is a saying:"better a bird in the hand than thousand of birds flying".
    If a new player suddenly has all powers for reptil and something more, effectively reptil can be his first or second best character as I said he doesn't have anything more.
    Not really so hard to understand imo.

    But if he/she/they then have the opportunity to gather a similar amount of covers for somebody else, say Deathlok, watch how quickly Reptil gets sold if it is a fight for the roster slot, lol!

  • Hammer3001
    Hammer3001 Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
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    So what are we thinking the new 5-Star is going to be?

    I put the odds at:
    New MCU Black Panther - 1/2
    Namor (Phoenix Five) - 1/3
    MCU Iron Heart - 1/8
    M’Baku - 1/8

    Thoughts?

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I hope it’s Namor from that group with a BP rebalance. Still holding out for Omega Red at some point.

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 466 Mover and Shaker
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    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I hope it’s Namor from that group with a BP rebalance. Still holding out for Omega Red at some point.

    BP doesn't need much but I agree that it's probably coming. Just a health and match damage increase and don't spend tu AP with yellow. Then his black down to like 6 AP and a fortified CD tile.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    He could be a pretty viable counter to Chasm with some tuning on Move or Be Moved. It would be ideal if the King of the Dead had some sway over all these revivers.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    MPQ 264 is out. The clue is

    Home grown smarts....

    And the release note might have spoilt who the next 5* is.