Upcoming 5-Star (11/17 release): No 3-Star Version

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @dianetics said:
    My concerns stem from low tier players not high tier.
    I’ve mentioned the imbalance of the early game for new players. Fattening the 3* roster slows down progression for new players.
    I want more people to make to 4* and 5* faster so the later game is healthier.
    I know my posts have been about the farm but it impacts newer players far worse than long term players.
    We do not need a fat roster at the low end.

    Agreed - it affects all levels of play, even if it does so in slightly different ways. I can't think of any who benefit meaningfully from it.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Devs are lowering +300 slots to 1200 hp.
    On DDQ it can be earned 45 hp daily. ~1350 hp per month.
    A lot of free 4* covers and shards.
    What else do you want? Free characters and free slots without having to play at the very least?
    As you can see I'm not concerned about new players at all as long as devs don't.
    If you want a gacha game not releasing characters, sorry that's not possible, or at least not an alive running gacha game.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    The thing is, new players want more different 3* characters. If you look at facebook, reddit or even this forum, requests for more 3* by new players can be observed from such places. That was the main reason for releasing 3/5.

    The veterans are looking at the game from optimal / min-max playstyle viewpoint, while new players are looking at things from "I want more varieties in 3* land." Both viewpoints don't agree with each other.

    Without 3+5 release, I don't think they will reduce roster slot to 1200, which nets those with over 300 roster slots a net gain of ~400hp a month. As a matter of fact, roster slot was reduced to due to release of 3+5.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dual simultaneous releases mean you will need 2400 hp every time a 5* comes out now rather than the previous 2000 assuming you are above 300 slots.

  • nixed
    nixed Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
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    @GrimSkald said:
    Yes, in general I think if you release a 3* with every 5*, the tier is going to get pretty bloated which will slow down new players. This doesn't really affect me, but adding hurdles to new players isn't the best idea in general.
    Thanks for the advance heads-up! More communication is an awesome thing.

    I'm pretty sure the entire point is to slow down new players. "Having More Feeders" doesn't help speed up progression since the primary limiting factor of a new player is HP starvation, not feeder covers.

    Just anecdotally, my good friend who I got into the game about 5 months ago just recently quit once he realized there will be more 3's regularly now. He was very excited to have about 3/4 of 3-stars rostered and "be able to get into 4-star land soon" but when he realized they're adding more 3's he lost all interest because he doesn't have the time commitment to play the game every day, and now says he'll "never get out of 3-star land."

    I was sad for him but it didn't affect me since I have all 3's and 4's already rostered so i'm way ahead of the curve.

  • Hammer3001
    Hammer3001 Posts: 130 Tile Toppler
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    I’m a 5-Star player. I like the new characters.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm a 5* player and I love those new 3s too.
    And I've posted a recorded battle with 3
    arcade.
    As a 5* player I have pleeenty of options to play meta but I absolutely loved that 3* character and playing him now I know that I will champ him.
    Fun to play, strategic powers.
    If I was on 3* or 4* tier I'd enjoy him a lot.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Imagine how much better he’d be if he were a 4*, or if the 5* were as good?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Have you played with a champed arcade 5* for to opine that way?

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Nope, mine's a 1/1/1. I couldn't even tell you what either does aside from "trap stuff," but I've seen more than one person talking about how good the 3* was, so my question stands - imagine if it was a 4 or 5*, how much better would it be?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The only difference between 3* and 5* are fortified repeaters and better numbers. Traps are the same, if the player matches them, +1AP, if the enemy matches -1AP.
    Fortified repeaters are great for him. So it isn't as bad. The 5* version can do a great third wheel role.
    The 3* version is a gift for 3* and 4* players. They released them as they are so there isn't a 4* version( who to continue the progression would do double the damage as the 3* and less than half the 5*.)

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I just champed my 3* Arcade - why DOES he hit so hard? His traps at 170 are doing a little over 1k base damage each, and my 4* Black Cat at level 344 only does 1400 off her traps. That’s serious power creep on top of the tier bloat.

  • NemoAbernnigan
    NemoAbernnigan Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2022
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's not more rewards. Some simple math will show that.

    Before September, there were 47 3*. For really veteran players, 3* farm turns about twice a year. We have 47 * 113 covers * 2 = 10, 622 3* covers in a year.

    Right now, we have 49 3*. The number of times 3* farm turn is 10,622 / (49*113) = 1.92 times a year.

    As you can see, your 3* farm turns slower the more 3* you have. Also, the closer your characters are to max champed, the better your rewards are.

    The dev needs to insert additional 11074 - 10622 = 452 covers a year for it to be termed more rewards.

    That assumes that you farm all 3* which I don't think is necessarily the case for all. I don't have a farm for all 49, maybe half that. So switching out which 3* I am building at any given moment doesn't necessarily impact to the degree above but every 3* added does mean I have less chance to get whatever 3* I am chasing in the farms I do have running.

    I agree it is not more rewards overall though but it is potentially more targeted rewards if it opens up lines of feeders to 4* who never had 3* feeders in the past and they then lead to new 5* fed. But that is a different thing to what I think is being suggested?

    Wait, if you're running farms why wouldn't you be farming all 3s? What about when you get a cover for a max champed 3? Isn't it kind of a waste to just trash it for ISO?

    I'm not sure where I stand on the influx of new 3*s debate but this bit confused me haha.

    Edit: I didn't know why that one line is in italics, I didn't format it. Strange.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,270 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Random italics have been popping up left and right - I tried to fix one that happened to me but it didn’t show in the markdown viewer

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 467 Mover and Shaker
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    I'm not entirely anti-new-3, but I'd much rather when they happen they actually add something to the game... from what I can tell Emma and Arcade have both done that, so that's really cool! That said, we don't NEED a 3 for every 5 release and I think you're doing better to make them when you can make them good. There's no-one actually very angry about the release schedule that plays the game, at worst we want to know when things are happening so we can be ready. That's that whole side of things lol.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Random italics have been popping up left and right - I tried to fix one that happened to me but it didn’t show in the markdown viewer

    I think is has something to do with the use of *. Like all 5s are awesome when used in the 1 node of DDQ.

    Nice I recreated it. All 3* work well in the 1* node too.

    Ok so plural *. How about random s don’t work in the 1 node.

    Nice. How about n is not even English so I don’t know what you’re saying

    There you go. It’s a shortcut that markdown uses. * immediately followed by a letter makes the following italics until the next *. this might be useful if I can remember it exists. I wonder what other shortcuts there are.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yeah but this thing wasn't there before.
    It has been just this week.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022
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    @Bad said:
    Yeah but this thing wasn't there before.
    It has been just this week.

    Yeah, the way quotes appear when responding has changed as well so the comments interface has been updated or is new. If interested there is a link at the bottom of the comments input. It leads here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown