What are your thoughts after more than one year of boosted 5* in PvPs?

124

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    MMR doesn't take boosted characters level into account. They take your raw/organic roster level into account.

    The problem you faced is similar to one the problem a multi-champed 5* player faces: it isn't fair to pair players who don't have one or more of the boosted champ with those who have the boosted champ. 

    This is an interesting question to ask for July's Dev Q&A and see what solution the new dev has to solve this tricky problem. 
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    DAZ0273 said:
    Probably what is happening is that the 5* you are seeing are incomplete/partly built and so are likely only at a base level of 300-350 but with the boost they get basically champed 5* health. Without the boost their health pools are probably not too disimilar to a level 300 champed 4*.  I see lots of incomplete 5* run in my MMR (sort of around 457) every boost week and sometimes if it is a newer 5* they can boost over 100k health easily but still not hit very hard power wise if they don't have the numbers in the covers. It makes things interesting but I can see how this would be a complete nightmare for 4* players - you guys have my sympathy on trying to chew through that. With boost weeks here to stay though, maybe the idea is to start levelling your 5's and get use out of them because even incomplete the health growth can be massive if boosted and it isn't like your MMR is not finding you boosted 5* now running champed levels of health anyway.
    Oh yes, 100%, they're undercovered. And unboosted they'd be completely fine for my mmr. Even boosted, their powers are fine. I can even deal with the insane match damage. It's really just the champed levels of 5* health that is a slog to get through on weeks where there's a lot of them.
    I was considering that - leveling my 5* (if I had iso, which I don't) in response. But, as you said, undercovered boosted 5* don't hit that hard, so they wouldn't actually be much help against 50k opponents. They'd just be a meat shield. Surviving is (thankfully) not my problem; damage output is vs 50k health.
    In weeks with lots of (undercovered) boosted 50k health 5* (Elektra, Apoc weeks...), you have 2 options as a 4* player: hope the 4* boost list has someone who hits very hard (Iceman = love) or be restricted to super meta like America / Polaris teams, which is boring. Thankfully not all weeks are as bad as the Elektra or Apoc ones were.
    HoundofShadow said:
    MMR doesn't take boosted characters level into account. They take your raw/organic roster level into account.

    The problem you faced is similar to one the problem a multi-champed 5* player faces: it isn't fair to pair players who don't have one or more of the boosted champ with those who have the boosted champ. 

    This is an interesting question to ask for July's Dev Q&A and see what solution the new dev has to solve this tricky problem. 
    Honestly, I agree, the situations are comparable. I actually don't mind if they can still see/hit me (offense-wise, they're still very much 4* players; they SHOULD see me/be able to hit me!) and I don't mind if I can still see some of them. But I'd really appreciate it if mmr would prioritise the non-50k health ones to show me since that's kinda above my 4* paygrade so to say, lol.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,351 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    MMR doesn't take boosted characters level into account. They take your raw/organic roster level into account.

    The problem you faced is similar to one the problem a multi-champed 5* player faces: it isn't fair to pair players who don't have one or more of the boosted champ with those who have the boosted champ. 

    This is an interesting question to ask for July's Dev Q&A and see what solution the new dev has to solve this tricky problem. 

    Correct and because of that MMR can't distinguish between which characters are boosted that week and which ones are not. As far as our old buddy MMR is concerned, if your base level is 300 and so are your other top characters you get MMR of 300-ish regardless if the character is actually boosted to over 400+ and you are being attacked by rosters with a couple of boosted incomplete 5*. It isn't a fair fight but changing it would mean a more complex MMR system that would have to adapt on a weekly basis to boosted vs non boosted characters. Sounds like a headache.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,351 Chairperson of the Boards
    AlexR said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Probably what is happening is that the 5* you are seeing are incomplete/partly built and so are likely only at a base level of 300-350 but with the boost they get basically champed 5* health. Without the boost their health pools are probably not too disimilar to a level 300 champed 4*.  I see lots of incomplete 5* run in my MMR (sort of around 457) every boost week and sometimes if it is a newer 5* they can boost over 100k health easily but still not hit very hard power wise if they don't have the numbers in the covers. It makes things interesting but I can see how this would be a complete nightmare for 4* players - you guys have my sympathy on trying to chew through that. With boost weeks here to stay though, maybe the idea is to start levelling your 5's and get use out of them because even incomplete the health growth can be massive if boosted and it isn't like your MMR is not finding you boosted 5* now running champed levels of health anyway.
    Oh yes, 100%, they're undercovered. And unboosted they'd be completely fine for my mmr. Even boosted, their powers are fine. I can even deal with the insane match damage. It's really just the champed levels of 5* health that is a slog to get through on weeks where there's a lot of them.
    I was considering that - leveling my 5* (if I had iso, which I don't) in response. But, as you said, undercovered boosted 5* don't hit that hard, so they wouldn't actually be much help against 50k opponents. They'd just be a meat shield. Surviving is (thankfully) not my problem; damage output is vs 50k health.
    In weeks with lots of (undercovered) boosted 50k health 5* (Elektra, Apoc weeks...), you have 2 options as a 4* player: hope the 4* boost list has someone who hits very hard (Iceman = love) or be restricted to super meta like America / Polaris teams, which is boring. Thankfully not all weeks are as bad as the Elektra or Apoc ones were.
    HoundofShadow said:
    MMR doesn't take boosted characters level into account. They take your raw/organic roster level into account.

    The problem you faced is similar to one the problem a multi-champed 5* player faces: it isn't fair to pair players who don't have one or more of the boosted champ with those who have the boosted champ. 

    This is an interesting question to ask for July's Dev Q&A and see what solution the new dev has to solve this tricky problem. 
    Honestly, I agree, the situations are comparable. I actually don't mind if they can still see/hit me (offense-wise, they're still very much 4* players; they SHOULD see me/be able to hit me!) and I don't mind if I can still see some of them. But I'd really appreciate it if mmr would prioritise the non-50k health ones to show me since that's kinda above my 4* paygrade so to say, lol.

    Definitely. There isn't an issue in the 3*/4* boosts because although champed 4* are obviously better it takes a while to build them and the level difference between a baby champed 4 and a max champed 3 (which is very attainable for a 4* player) are hardly apart at all. But you can level up a 5* with just one cover to 270 immediately and getting it above 300 takes next to no covers at all whereas that is 30 covers on your 4*. Perhaps the answer is to boost the 4* even higher than is currently so they can at least compete a bit better. I dunno.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    AlexR said:
     you have 2 options as a 4* player: hope the 4* boost list has someone who hits very hard (Iceman = love) or be restricted to super meta like America / Polaris teams, which is boring. 
    And this is the key.
    A brolaris team can defeat anyone. Sometimes they defeat my 2 godboosted 5*s.
    By the way I had a member on my alliance always getting 1300 points with a 450 brolaris team.
    The best 4* character should be used, although being boring.
    Or just wait for the week to pass.
    Or jump to 5* land.
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    Bad said:
    AlexR said:
     you have 2 options as a 4* player: hope the 4* boost list has someone who hits very hard (Iceman = love) or be restricted to super meta like America / Polaris teams, which is boring. 
    And this is the key.
    A brolaris team can defeat anyone. Sometimes they defeat my 2 godboosted 5*s.
    By the way I had a member on my alliance always getting 1300 points with a 450 brolaris team.
    The best 4* character should be used, although being boring.
    Or just wait for the week to pass.
    Or jump to 5* land.
    I disagree with this. There are ~125 4* in the game. Making it so 90% cannot compete and only one or two meta teams can survive in pvp is not just boring, it's bad design.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,351 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bad said:
    AlexR said:
     you have 2 options as a 4* player: hope the 4* boost list has someone who hits very hard (Iceman = love) or be restricted to super meta like America / Polaris teams, which is boring. 
    And this is the key.
    A brolaris team can defeat anyone. Sometimes they defeat my 2 godboosted 5*s.
    By the way I had a member on my alliance always getting 1300 points with a 450 brolaris team.
    The best 4* character should be used, although being boring.
    Or just wait for the week to pass.
    Or jump to 5* land.

    On the odd occasion that I get defeated by 4* teams I normally find the retal is very juicy indeed and winning it is childs play. So this can still be a risky situation if you end up giving more points in the retal than you got for the win. Of course the 4* player might be playing wins and not care but until this recent change in win amounts I was always interested in points, that might change with this though.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    The truth is that 110 levels only make deadly a meta character, who actually was already deadly  before. 
    For the big majority of the other characters, is just a meatshield dealing a small amount of damage extra. That helps the player having it, being a gacha game, and could annoy the player don't having it. As I said before, a champ em all player gets rewarded for a week (and the meta seeker player gets pissed off to the point that talking on behalf and pretending to care so much about new players :D)
    Still it's much better than fighting always the same meta teams, as players simply will use the best tool despite being the 10% of all the characters.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    Bad said:
    The truth is that 110 levels only make deadly a meta character, who actually was already deadly  before. 
    For the big majority of the other characters, is just a meatshield dealing a small amount of damage extra. That helps the player having it, being a gacha game, and could annoy the player don't having it. As I said before, a champ em all player gets rewarded for a week (and the meta seeker player gets pissed off to the point that talking on behalf and pretending to care so much about new players :D)
    Still it's much better than fighting always the same meta teams, as players simply will use the best tool despite being the 10% of all the characters.

    This has also been my experience. I have been climbing early with the boosts these last few weeks, but when I need to put the event to bed and hit1200 pts, I've been switching to Unboosted Shang-Chi/Onslaught because they are still the most reliable way to chew through these health pools quickly on weeks somebody who isn't at least A tier is boosted. They aren't defensively problematic, but they let me accrue points fast enough to hit 1200 and save out for the event which is all I'm really after for full progression. 

    The characters who light up on boost week but wouldn't normally get used are the ones whose health is normally too low to support their powersets - they require you to eat a bunch of damage to do something like Deadpool, or like Killmonger where he punishes crits showing up but also has to eat a crit to do it, which means they can do it like once, or characters who do a lot of board shake, where their match damage really comes online and matters, or somebody like Knull and Ultron whose powers were for whatever reason wildly underbalanced from launch and finally start doing real numbers.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    Interesting. That hasn’t been my experience at all. I’ve pretty much been on all in on using the boosted characters since they’ve started this whole thing. It’s been fun. I’m glad Shang is there for folks to still hit their goals though.  He needs an Okoye-level world tour in special stores so others can get him and have another option to attain their goals if they aren’t interested in (or have 7 years to spare) acquiring/playing other characters. 

    I’m really appreciating the Jean Grey rework especially this week. She is flat out bananas boosted, saves on packs, and hits like a truck. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    I’m not sure why it is, but I definitely find events where I’m queuing 550s even though my best naturally covered characters are 469/461/461. It’s not always, but I’ve definitely seen it. I usually try to use at least one of the boosted characters, but it’s often the case that I need to bring an unboosted battery or other type of synergy rather than relying on a boosted pair.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been seeing these 550 roster for quite a while and sometimes I see them as early as hitting ~1000 points, and often >1200 points. Sometimes I need to pause and see if I'm looking at the correct mmr because their health would be ~250k hp each. I think it probably has to do with breaking mmr. 

    Playing slice one and with a lot of time left. 
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,065 Chairperson of the Boards
    I love the boosts and I hope they’re here to stay. I dig the variety I can create. 

    Of the 70 5*s in the game, I’ve champed 65 of them. The only ones to elude me are:

    Silver Surfer 5/3/3
    Big Wheel 6/2/4 (I have no desire or motivation to ever champ him)
    Gambit 3/3/4 (I sold my champed Gambit for the deal when he was nerfed)
    Moon Knight 1/4/3
    Ms Marvel 0/1/0

    i try to champ em all (except Big Wheel cuz he looks stupid)
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    My roster:- I have all 5* champ except for Abigail and Kamala. 

    I love the 5* boost because of the variety it brings to the week. Like Daredevil, I usually go all in with the 5* boost, meaning I play exclusively 5* teams for my pvp. They may not be the most efficient nor have the most synergy, but that’s part of the charm for me, because I get to try different teams. 

    On this note, I am glad for the recent change to the wins requirement (50 wins for 18 CP) because it means I can just use the boosted team without fail of losing points. More time is spent playing, but I can spread it out to get 50 wins instead of trying to climb and shield out at specific times. 

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,656 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tiger_Wong said:

    i try to champ em all (except Big Wheel cuz he looks stupid)
    Your missing out because he is so much fun to play with. Especially paired with Shang Chi.

    He may look dumb but the things he does helps to shake out the board. If you use Valk with them BW can shake out her strike tiles too. It’s one of my go to teams.
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 829 Critical Contributor
    dianetics said:
    Tiger_Wong said:

    i try to champ em all (except Big Wheel cuz he looks stupid)
    Your missing out because he is so much fun to play with. Especially paired with Shang Chi.

    He may look dumb but the things he does helps to shake out the board. If you use Valk with them BW can shake out her strike tiles too. It’s one of my go to teams.
    Agreed, this is all I’ve been using for 3 weeks because it’s unbeatable in pick 3 nodes. No health packs wasted either. I should have Shang champed in 2 months max . 
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    I think the variety is really cool and I'm glad that people get to play and play against different teams now! That said, as a capped 4* I do think that MMR needs adjustments so that boosted 5s don't entirely rule the roost. I typically see 90% boosted 5 and champ 4 at my 360~ mmr from 500+ on and it's a chore to work through.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    Timemachinego said:
    I think the variety is really cool and I'm glad that people get to play and play against different teams now! That said, as a capped 4* I do think that MMR needs adjustments so that boosted 5s don't entirely rule the roost. I typically see 90% boosted 5 and champ 4 at my 360~ mmr from 500+ on and it's a chore to work through.
    I see the same and my MMR is 340ish so we could well be playing in the same MMR given there is a dearth of levels between 370 (where 4*s cap out) and 450 (5* champ). This is why I keep advocating raising the level cap on 4* to 420 (max 150 champ levels) to fill in that huge gap. And yeah, it's a pain fighting L460-500 5*s when their match damage wrecks teams in a few turns or a lucky cascade.

    Not sure what they can do though. Presumably you, like me have every character rostered so whomever is boosted in 4/5* land we have all of them even if we don't choose (or want) to use them in a given week.

    The *only* possibility would be to boost unchamped 5* by less than 100 levels. Perhaps a minimum of 30 levels + a fraction of how much they've been leveled between 255-450. So for example a L255 would get a base 30 levels taking them to 285 and nothing from being leveled. But a L350 would get +30 base levels then (350-255)/(450-255) * 70 (remaining possible boost levels) or +34 more so +64 levels total so they'd fight at L414 for the week. A L450 would get the full +100 level boost.

    KGB
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    I would guess that level gap is there deliberately to create a gulf between the tiers that is intended to make the 4* player feel aspirational about moving up, and the 5* player to feel rewarded for graduating out of the minors into the big leagues. I think the way y’all are choosing to play comes with the downside of  exposure to the higher tier by design. I could be wrong though.

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