What are your thoughts after more than one year of boosted 5* in PvPs?

killahKlown

I just wish they'd shuffle the boosteds more.  I have a 550 Jessica Jones who's boost has been wasted each time because it has always taken place at the same time as boosted Wanda.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Vhailorx said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

I find it irrelevant as Shang is just going to one punch any character regardless of boost . I just had him KO a 250K Mr Sinister with one hit and he wasn’t even angry yet . There’s only 2 types of players now. Those that have Shang and those that will use boosted 5*. 

You are not considering defense.  SC is great for climbing, but when people complain about "lack of tram variety" they mean defensive team selection. People want to see lots of different opponents so that the event feels like less of a slog and they especially don't want to see the same two or three teams on every node. SC is very bad on defense and is therefore largely irrelevant to the discussion of team variety.

True, but I’ve been seeing the same 3 teams in 95% of PvP for over a year . So unless they Bishop BRay that won’t ever change no matter what they do. If I want defense I’ll buy a shield like everyone else does . 

acescracked

BlackBoltRocks said:

I love it. It's given me a reason to use my other champed 5* that are not the meta, instead of effectively being forced to use the same old usual ones while the non-meta ones are left to rot on the bench. The ones who hate it are mainly the sotongs with lv550s who have lost their monopoly in PVP and resent the fact that they now have to share a slice of the pie with other players.

OMG. It's really become the theme here (by all means not just you Bolt) to bash and curse "550" players. I assure you, "550" players aren't Voldemort, Thanos, Gorr, Vecna and all evil incarnate rolled into one!

You'd be surprised; just regular ol' folk who enjoy the game just as everyone here does. Obviously, many enjoy the 'first person shooter' aspect of PvP. The game wouldn't be where it is without competition with others in PvE & PvP.

The evil 550 players are doing fine with the current state of 5* boosts & shang-chi.

Bad

People competing will continue doing so.
550 players won't have any problem with any buffed 5*.
If the godboost allows more people to play pvp, that benefits us the players competing for a rank.
The new rewards system benefits us as I climbed really fast today hitting players I don't use to hit. Still the ones at the top ranking are exactly the usual players as always. 
And people worrying because they could rebalance a character and make it good perhaps should stop seeing things from an egoist pov and try to understand that balanced characters will make for a better game and that will benefit them too in a way or in another. 
For 4* players complaining, I don't have an answer as I can't possibly experience a 4* pvp.

Vhailorx

Bad said:

People competing will continue doing so.
550 players won't have any problem with any buffed 5*.
If the godboost allows more people to play pvp, that benefits us the players competing for a rank.
The new rewards system benefits us as I climbed really fast today hitting players I don't use to hit. Still the ones at the top ranking are exactly the usual players as always. 
And people worrying because they could rebalance a character and make it good perhaps should stop seeing things from an egoist pov and try to understand that balanced characters will make for a better game and that will benefit them too in a way or in another. 
For 4* players complaining, I don't have an answer as I can't possibly experience a 4* pvp.

I don't the body does  much that websites more people to play pvp; I think it is more about improving the subjective experience of those players who already pvp.

Theghouse

Bad said:

Champ em all players with baby champed 5*s never should fight with vets 550 rosters, who easily may have the same character 20 levels more, so it's an unbalanced topic in any case. 

Of course at a high enough score all MMR breaks and the highest scored players can all see each other. But before the MMR breakpoint:

If 450 level rosters should never pair in MMR with 550 level rosters, why should teams of level 570+ boosted characters still be matching against teams of level 450 characters in MMR?

Even if a 550 player does have the same boosted character 20 levels higher as a baby champ player like you suggested, isn't 570 vs 590 a much more even match-up than 570 vs 450?  Isn't that the point of MMR, to provide as even a match-up as possible?

So what is a reasonable explanation for why level 570+ boosted teams should be paired against level 450 unboosted teams?  Why not pair them against level 550+ teams?

It sounds like you're happy to have MMR matching teams 100+ levels apart, as long as players like yourself are on the advantaged side of the mismatch.

Bad

Theghouse said:

So what is a reasonable explanation for why level 570+ boosted teams should be paired against level 450 unboosted teams?  Why not pair them against level 550+ teams?

It sounds like you're happy to have MMR matching teams 100+ levels apart, as long as players like yourself are on the advantaged side of the mismatch.

When I had a level 570 roster I will tell you (actually your apoc is 10 levels higher than mine).
Are there so many mismatches? The truth is I look at the points, I don't care much about the levels anymore. 
There are characters pretty easy to beat at level 550, others not.
What I don't like is to not be able to hit a level 550 player who worths 75 points, so it seems we are at the opposite approach. 

Theghouse

Bad said:

When I had a level 570 roster I will tell you (actually your apoc is 10 levels higher than mine).
Are there so many mismatches? The truth is I look at the points, I don't care much about the levels anymore. 
There are characters pretty easy to beat at level 550, others not.
What I don't like is to not be able to hit a level 550 player who worths 75 points, so it seems we are at the opposite approach. 

It is not really you and I at the opposite approach, it seems that you are at the opposite approach with yourself!

You say you like the god boost despite it pairing 450s and 570+ in same MMR.
You say you think 450 rosters should never be paired against 550 rosters.
You say you wish you could see 550s with your size roster.

None of these comments are in line with each other!

In a nutshell, it seems like you are saying you like god boosts because at your roster size and level you typically have boosted characters, you don't think your size roster should be seem in MMR by 550s even if you are playing boosted teams at 570+, but if 550s are worth more points than you want to be able to see them in your MMR for max points.

If I'm understanding you correctly, that's very focused on what works best for you, your roster, and your playstyle, and not at all considering overall balance or fairness for all types of rosters and play styles.

Not caring much about levels anymore is a luxury that only players with a large number of 5* champed or decently covered and leveled up have, bring able to pick a set of characters boosted to 570+ and then cruising on autopilot into an MMR where you are pretty much guaranteed to have in worst case an equal strength opponent and in best case a ridiculously lower strength opponent.  Players just making the jump to 5* land today might never have that same luxury with the increased difficulty in collecting classic 5* in a tier of 70 characters and growing, especially as most characters do not have skillsets like Shang Chi or Colossus that actually give players a fighting chance to punch up 120+ levels even when not boosted.

Bad

Theghouse said:

You say you like the god boost despite it pairing 450s and 570+ in same MMR.
You say you think 450 rosters should never be paired against 550 rosters.
You say you wish you could see 550s with your size roster.

Sorry but actually who said the 2 first points was you, I was simply answering that.
"I'd be interested to see a new experiment for this next year while the new devs are working on rebalances, keep the boosts but change MMR based on boosted levels.  Then when you have boosted 5*, you are in 550 MMR for the week.  I know a bunch of players in the 550 MMR would love to see a new crop of fresh meat every week using the boosted mid and low tier characters.  I wonder if champ em all type players might have different opinions on that experience?"
This is what you said and what I answered. Please try to remember what you yourself are saying.

Theghouse said:

.  Players just making the jump to 5* land today might never have that same luxury with the increased difficulty in collecting classic 5* in a tier of 70 characters and growing, especially as most characters do not have skillsets like Shang Chi or Colossus that actually give players a fighting chance to punch up 120+ levels even when not boosted.

Now you are here another time jumping off topic, the one who doesnt understand very well is me.
For new players there are milestones helping to get meta characters, read bbigler post.
Now what are you implying here? Because of new players the godboost should'nt exist?
I think you are continuosly putting words in my mouth and accusing me to be insensible or something.... just amazing!

AlexR

Returning 4* player (full 4* mmr, highest leveled character is at lvl 301), coming back from a hiatus from before 5* boosts were a thing.

I will say, as a 4* player it really limits the teams I can play in pvp. Every pvp has a lot of low-covered godboosted 5* with ~50k health and insane match damage. The majority of unboosted 4* cannot compete with that. They just don't have the fast damage required to get through this much health in a reasonable amount of time. Especially in pvp with featured 5* characters, where I'm stuck with a meatshield loaner and only two champed 4*. Those two champed 4* need to have a lot of damage output to get me through a pvp.

Now the question becomes: Can one of the boosted 4* punch through 50k+ health repeatedly? Like 4* Iceman, Iceman was boosted and is great for this. But if not, I basically have to play America (or Polaris, but I try to avoid that in pvp.)

You don't really get through 50k health opponents quickly any other way as a 4* player. 

Theghouse

@Bad this has steered way off course, I am done trying to discuss it with you, but I definitely did not put any words in your mouth.  

I said: "You say you like the god boost despite it pairing 450s and 570+ in same MMR."
You said in your first post in this thread: "I love it. It rewards champ' em all players."
The last part of my statement is not words that you posted, it's just simple fact.  MMR pairs god boosted 570+ teams against unboosted 450 teams, it's been happening consistently for the last year. Surely that's the "reward" you were referring to as a champ em all player.

I said: "You say you think 450 rosters should never be paired against 550 rosters."
You said in your second post in this thread: "Champ em all players with baby champed 5*s never should fight with vets 550 rosters, who easily may have the same character 20 levels more, so it's an unbalanced topic in any case."

I said: "You say you wish you could see 550s with your size roster."
You said in your fourth post in this thread: "What I don't like is to not be able to hit a level 550 player who worths 75 points, so it seems we are at the opposite approach."

I went on further trying to piece together what I thought your opinion was, given these conflicting statements, even addressing the possibility that I might be misunderstanding you: "In a nutshell, it seems like you are saying you like god boosts because at your roster size and level you typically have boosted characters, you don't think your size roster should be seem in MMR by 550s even if you are playing boosted teams at 570+, but if 550s are worth more points than you want to be able to see them in your MMR for max points.  If I'm understanding you correctly..."

Here is one thing you did you get right: "Now what are you implying here? Because of new players the godboost should'nt exist?"

Yes. It absolutely should not continue on in it's current form, in large part because of the detrimental effect it has on smaller and newer 5* players.

Bad

Theghouse said:

I'd be interested to see a new experiment for this next year while the new devs are working on rebalances, keep the boosts but change MMR based on boosted levels.  Then when you have boosted 5*, you are in 550 MMR for the week.  I know a bunch of players in the 550 MMR would love to see a new crop of fresh meat every week using the boosted mid and low tier characters.  I wonder if champ em all type players might have different opinions on that experience?

I repeat again that I was answering this. Obviously 450 rosters and 550 should'nt be together, for that reason there is MMR. 

Theghouse said:

The last part of my statement is not words that you posted, it's just simple fact.  MMR pairs god boosted 570+ teams against unboosted 450 teams, it's been happening consistently for the last year. Surely that's the "reward" you were referring to as a champ em all player.


Yes. It absolutely should not continue on in it's current form, in large part because of the detrimental effect it has on smaller and newer 5* players.

Effectively. If godboost gives 110 levels then it pairs rosters of 450 (not having it) with 560. Now what do you think about a godboosted kingping and loki (this week) vs a player hulkoye level maybe 470? It's that hard to kill? Could be that possibly kingping and loki could have any chance? Come on... your statement is a bit exagerated imo.
And now, new players. I'll tell you a secret: gacha games use to be kind of harsh to new players. Until you find a great way to prevent that, there is a button and it works skipping the battle, I did that thousands of times when I started and I still press it.
Because supressing the godboost will make it all the meta teams coming again. 
It must be that against the meta teams new players have better chances to win.

HoundofShadow

I'm doing a (subjective) tally here:.

Against: 5
Most have their own unique reason. The easiest to understand would be 4* player's pov, which was the difficulty of beating boosted 5* (x two 4* players). The other one would be boosting only 1 5* to increase the variety. Another find it unfair that players whose 5* aren't boosted are paired with boosted 5* for their MMR.

For: 8
The reasons are more consistent: it's largely either they get to use different teams or they get to see different teams. 

Neutral: 4
Doesn't seem to be for or against it. 

I wonder, is seeing more variety of teams more important or is using more variety of teams more important?
Currently, boosted 5* allows us to see up to 4 more different characters as opponents every week, unless the boost week is insignificant.

IMO, there are two types of varieties:

1) one that centres around one character, usally a meta + another which synergise well. For example, Wanda + Colossus/Apocalypse/Okoye/possibly Abigail, or Shang-Chi + Valkyrie/Melinda May/Onslaught/Colossus etc. Boosted 5* falls under this category and usually there is a best two.

2) the other would be a true variety: they are those you see around 600 points and below in slice 1 pvp.

I think if we were to remove boost, we would see more Shang Chi-based teams, all 2022 character releases like Elektra, Shuma and Crystal etc except for maybe Moon Knight. All looks easy to beat on defense and it also allows players to use and see more variety of teams as well. The variety seen won't be as many as boosted 5* week though.

On the flipside, it seems that the dev is focusing on making things better for casual or new players. They might make some changes to boost weeks or even remove them. Those 2* or 3* players in reddit were also complaining about getting paired with boosted 5* in pvp. I'm not sure if they could limit boost week to just scl 9/10 so that players who can't deal with boosted 5* can just play in scl 8. It's a tradeoff with reduced rewards but at least pvp experience is better.

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

I wonder, is seeing more variety of teams more important or is using more variety of teams more important?

Surely the two are linked? If all I have to attack is a wall of Hulkoye then I am going to be influenced in what resources I have available to me to beat them. However if I have a variety of targets to choose from I have greater flexibility in what teams I can use to win, boosted or not.

HoundofShadow

I guess it depends.

For example, in shield sim, all I see is a wall of BRB/Polaris/Kitty and Colossus/Wanda/Apocalypse when I reach ~1600 points. However, it doesn't stop me from using more than 10 different teams to beat them. I see largely two different teams but I'll sti using more than 10 different teams to beat them.

Pre-boost in pvp, Colossus/Wanda was a pain. However, I see a lot of different teams that can beat them now.

This is a scenario where I see limited variety of opponents but I'm still able to use many different teams to beat them.

Bad

But you see a limited variety of opponents because on sim there is no godboost an players use the limited variety of meta teams existing.
There is speed and there is defensive deterrent.
Not using the meta characters for defensive deterrent will open you to a big chance of hits.
Not using the meta characters for speed possibly will mean increased chance on taking damage and depending on your position and the time where you are playing, and unbalance on points gained and points losed.
There are more characters playable right now but that doesn't move the needle on meta play too much.

DAZ0273

Right - SHIELD Sim is a bad example because nothing has changed there in years - once you are up to a certain point your are blocked by a wall of whatever the meta of choice in Pick 3 currently might be. It never REALLY alters! This is partly why I gave up bothering with SS, by the time you had slogged through it you normally had already champed the 4* anyway.

HoundofShadow

In PvPs, I find that it's the same scenario as shield sim. Once you hit a certain point, you are blocked by a wall of meta. Pre-Wanda/Colossus, it was Hulkoye or BRB/Kitty. After them, all you see is Wanda/Colossus or other variations. The only difference is that one is a pick-2 and another pick-3. With boost, you are blocked by a wall of boosted 5* instead, and many  times, you are more or less doing mirror matches.

The above scenario made me wonder, is seeing variety of opponents more important or is using variety of characters more important for 5* players who are for 5* boost?

I imagine If we strip away 5* boost now, I believe we'll see many SC teams (glass cannon), who will allow you to use many varieties of team, Hawkeye/Shuma, Crystal teams or even Elektra teams. There will be Colossus/Wanda or their variations but if you have stringent requirements, your choices would be limited. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I think that is going to wholly depend on the player. It seems unlikely to me that the 550 crowd cares that much about using different teams or they wouldn’t have sunk all their resources into a small number of characters like that. As a champ em all player I like playing different teams against different teams, but it took me a REALLY long time to get to the point in 5* play where at least my side of that equation was possible. The 5* transition of having only 1-3 champed 5*s probably looks an awful lot like the 550 game in that you have to use that set of characters in PVP whether you want to or not, because of MMR. 

So player desire and the reality of the game as implemented are not in lockstep, at least for PVP where you have no active way to select who gets served up to you in regards to difficulty save for limiting yourself to lower teams and farming retaliation hits. MMR seems to punish the player rather than the roster in PVP by not allowing you to join events with a level cap.

HoundofShadow

Most 550 players definitely don't care. Since majority of the 5* players are non-550 players, I'll ignore those 550 players.    

I think the weakness of our mmr is lack of players and players not playing for high enough points. Currently, our opponents are determine by top 3-5 highest levelled characters, our current scores, our slice chosen and number of non-shielded players. If we have 100,000 active players playing pvps, I believe that players would be able to see the "appropriate" opponents  more frequently and would be able to climb more easily. As of now, mmr looks unfair to some. I'm not sure if throwing AI into pvps in higher level works. Theoretically, the dev could create 60,000 different teams for players to play against but it won't be called pvp anymore. It would be more like simulator pve.