Been out a year, has the game changed?

24

Comments

  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    entrailbucket said:
    Nobody is playing PvE competitively for fun, you're doing it for the rewards.  As long as you're not morally opposed to spending, you can convert the rewards to cash and see if they're worth your time.

    Do the math: they sell Latest tokens for about $10 in special deals, or $17 if you buy CP in a buyclub. 

    If you place in PvE you get 2LTs (one from alliance), which is $34 of value at most.  How much time (and aggravation) does it take you to get that, and what's your time (and aggravation) worth? 

    If it's 3 days for an hour a day, you're saying your time is worth a little over $11.33/hr.  I bet your rate is just a *bit* more than that (mine is).
    I think I'm just cheap.   I blame my ethnicity and parents.   Lol.   But you are right,  if I looked at it that way...I should have just done cl9.  With my 550 thanos,  550 hela,  and 5 something Peter Parker (to use the support to get more green at start), I was winning 50% of the matches at turn 0.  I think the stopwatch guys also made it less fun... also I heard that they caught people cheating the timing somehow.  
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2021
    I play pves competitively. I do it mainly for the adrenaline rush that it gives me. Watching your ranking going up and down by 1 or 2 positions every 10 clears can be exciting. However, not everyone will feel the same way. 

    Given that each event lasts 3 or 4 days, I wonder how some expect "time based" events to go away. If you expect them to turn all pves into Prologue-like event, then you should simply buy MPQ: Dark Reign for PS and XBox - non-p2w and non-time based. Complete it and never look back again.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nobody grinds CL10 with a spreadsheet and a stopwatch for fun.

    Players get caught up in the competition and trick themselves into thinking the rewards are more valuable than they actually are.  In an auction it's known as the Winner's Curse (look it up!).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    For those who wants time to be removed from pves, how should competitive players who play for top rewards be compensated? If you expect the dev to shift T1-T5 placement rewards into progression rewards, it's not going to happen. 

    If your suggestion is to remove all placement rewards, then what's the difference between this and playing pves for full progression non-competitively?

    If you expect pves to be non-time based and requires only 1 clear, how much progression rewards are you willing to sacrifice? If the value of progression rewards are reduced by 85%, are you fine with this tradeoff? Realistically, they are not going to let progression rewards remain the same while reducing the total clears+grinds from 6 or 7 to 1. That's a 83-85% reduction. 
  • BagPuss
    BagPuss Posts: 73 Match Maker
    HoundofShadow said:
    For those who wants time to be removed from pves, how should competitive players who play for top rewards be compensated? If you expect the dev to shift T1-T5 placement rewards into progression rewards, it's not going to happen. 

    If your suggestion is to remove all placement rewards, then what's the difference between this and playing pves for full progression non-competitively?

    If you expect pves to be non-time based and requires only 1 clear, how much progression rewards are you willing to sacrifice? If the value of progression rewards are reduced by 85%, are you fine with this tradeoff? Realistically, they are not going to let progression rewards remain the same while reducing the total clears+grinds from 6 or 7 to 1. That's a 83-85% reduction. 

    Slightly erroneous assumption there that progression based = 85% reduction or based on the current model.
    Think outside the box and you can design a different progression system and leave the time based side to PvP.

    The only thing that really needs to change is the placement reward system, it's not even PvP by definition.
    The T10 rewards are the most lucrative, should all players be able to earn this?
    No it would unbalance the ingame economy. So how do you reward the players that want to go that little extra or have those monster rosters?
    Fiendishly challenging nodes ala puzzle gauntlet, older guantlet.. Hell even Simulator without the time aspect.
    If you're unable to complete those nodes, gotta get to that level to beat it. I mean it is PvE.
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    Currently, I am able to roster and champ all new characters while playing CL10.

    I would switch to pure-progression PVE if it would allow me to acquire enough resources continue doing that.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Full progression =  3 or 4 clears.
    Turning full progression to 1 clear = 66%-75% reduction in time spent. 

    And your solution sounds like Gauntlet and these were the feedbacks in 2015:

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/23373/gauntlet-are-you-kidding-me

    They could bring back community scaling with non-time based pves. It will be an eye-opening experience.

    Again, they've been tweaking the pve formulas over the years and they seem to be happy with 24 hours refresh. 2.5hours, 8hours refresh etc were pretty crazy. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    At some point, speed is the only thing they can use to decide a winner.

    The very first implementation of PvE had nodes that never decreased in value, but that scaled up every time you won.  In that setup, the person who could beat the highest level opponents was the winner.

    They can't do this now because of the characters they've added since then.  The strongest teams now can trivially beat enemies of an infinite level. 

    It's the same reason the gauntlet will never come back -- they literally cannot make a fight that you can't faceroll in 10 seconds while you're watching TV.


    When there was tapping in PvE, the winner was not the fastest, but the one who spent the most time playing.  The devs decided to remove that, after players began grinding PvE literally 24/7, presumably to prevent someone dying because they couldn't take a break to eat.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2021
    entrailbucket said:

    It's the same reason the gauntlet will never come back -- they literally cannot make a fight that you can't faceroll in 10 seconds while you're watching TV.

    Kacelius/Boss Ultron (bombs)/Boss Apoc (4 horsemen) all at L650 (heck even at 550). Lets see someone faceroll that in 10 seconds with their stun immunity :D
    KGB
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    The replacement is the Puzzle Gauntlet, where you can't (generally) faceroll the fights, because damage doesn't matter.

    You can see how well it's received when they make those even a little bit difficult to win.  Imagine the reaction they'd get if they made all PvE like that.
  • StanleyBurrell
    StanleyBurrell Posts: 143 Tile Toppler
    If pve lost the competitive aspect I’m not sure I’d continue to play. It has nothing to do with the rewards as at the end of the day it’s all pretty worthless, I just find it fun to compete.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    I must be another rara avis too, because I try to play fast pve scl10 using teams with 4*s that actually are not that fast.
    But I find funny to watch my rank after clearing each node and in days like this on boss events I feel a bit bored without the pve.
    Usually I rank t50 except okoye boosted weeks that it is t100.
    Nevertheless I find funny to look at the outcomes and try to figure out what is happening in each pve and compare it with the last time. 
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    The game is basically the same than last year, there are some differences (specially on the UI side :P) and the meta has changed but it is the same game. 

    There is a new game mode to win supports, more puzzle based that is interesting sometimes that is worth checking.
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    So, basically the same.  I appreciate the feedback.   I know a lot of veterans had already quit when I did.   Many just got tired of the grind.  I know the devs keep getting new spenders to replace the old,  so the game keeps going on without any real changes.   I think it was said earlier,  there's no way to change the game now... to many decision have been made that are unable to be undone without undoing the game.   The future of this game is essentially new characters that may or may not ever be used.  The God mode weekly boost helps some,  I'm guessing,  but overall,  broken characters are broken for a reason.   There's a reason Okoye was used for everything and was the only character that everyone was leveling for almost 2 years instead of accruing all the different characters.  Looks like there were enough 550ish Okoyes that they finally had to get a new broken combo.   Sounds like that is switch/colossus with an added Shang chi for difficult nodes or infinite turn in pvp.(devs have usually nixed these characters quickly, after significant amount have bought the character initially).   Shang chi will help the low levels feel that they can shoot above their weight class since they probably couldn't fight a high level switch colossus.  This is all conjecture since I haven't played in a while,  but seems reasonable.  I do miss the community on line which is the only thing about this game that kept me spending all these years.   The game itself is secondary for me,  and I'm guessing most top players.   I could join back on line,  but feel that half the conversation would go over my head if I wasn't playing which would then cause me to start playing a game in not that interested in. Anyways,  than you again for the info,  I guess for me, I'm right where I should be.  If the game ever changes,  maybe I'll rejoin,  but why kill the goose that lays the golden egg, especially if you have to do minimal work for it. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    These kinds of games simply aren't made to be played for years.  The devs' focus is on newer players' experience, because that's where they make their money. 

    Burnout/attrition of veterans goes with the territory when you're talking about casual, free to play mobile games, because there just isn't that much game here.  There's no secret mode that opens up when you get to higher levels, it's the same few PvEs and the same PvP experience.

    If you still like that stuff (like I do!) or you can find new ways to have fun with those modes or with the new characters, then the game can feel fresh. 

    If you're tired of that stuff and not enjoying it anymore, walk away.  There's a reason it's called the sunk cost *fallacy*.  Far too many veterans stick around despite constantly having a bad time, and they poison all the discussion around the game.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    I like to think that the social interactions on forums keep me interested. I have never been that much invested much in a game without some sort of social aspect.  Plus I like to have something to do during my morning coffee and when watching TV at night. I’m sure the gambling and collection aspects keep the attention deficit side of me on board. The game play itself is pretty ok. I have never played any other match-3 game more than a couple of days though. 

    If things like that do not keep you interested it is more than ok to move on to the next thing or take a break. I imagine someday this game will die too. I cannot imagine everyone still being here 20 years from now.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not long time ago they implemented scl10. It's a neat level for advanced 5* players for to find strong opponents, as foes in there scale to 100 levels more than maxed vet's characters.
    Are they asking for scl11?. If they did possibly I was sleeping.
    No, they don't want it because they don't like tough battles. They want to grind easy battles for the best reward outcome. Obviously in long term they get bored throughout repetitive grind.
    And if a new game mode appears they start complaining because the rewards are not worthing a change of perspective, a game mode where they don't know everything from the start to the end.
    Part of this is on devs blame. They should create new content and ignore all the noise.
    New content funny and oriented to all types of players, giving the rewards they want to, as the best reward is to play new modes.
    And then everyone can play it or not. For each player ranting, possibly there will be 3 players more enjoying it, and they should know it looking at their tracks.
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    Don't get me wrong.   I enjoyed the game when it was 3 and 4 stars.   I enjoys it a little less when 5 stars were introduced, but still manageable.   I think the game went off the deep end when bonus levels were introduced.   And truly made it unmanageable when 5 stars were introduced every 6 weeks.   The characters were never meant to gain those extra 100 levels,  hence why we saw such crazy scaling of powers.   It's why 4 stars dominate BOP or at least did when I last played.   I truly believe champ levels were an afterthought and just happened to work out in the devs favor monetarily.   I liked the game when everyone was potentially equal.   Alliance wars meant something. You could forgo some rewards to attack a whole slice because rewards weren't the end all of everything.   Entrailbucket  can verify those days I bet.   Now a days,  you have to scrape every last reward or someone else will get an advantage.  Alliances used to be like minded people who generally played the same slice at least for pvp, now they are just a means to an end for rewards.   Alliance families were about building a community, now its about hoarding resources.  I know I'm showing my age in this game,  but I think it was better back then.   

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