Been out a year, has the game changed?

entrailbucket

grunth13 said:

Don't get me wrong.   I enjoyed the game when it was 3 and 4 stars.   I enjoys it a little less when 5 stars were introduced, but still manageable.   I think the game went off the deep end when bonus levels were introduced.   And truly made it unmanageable when 5 stars were introduced every 6 weeks.   The characters were never meant to gain those extra 100 levels,  hence why we saw such crazy scaling of powers.   It's why 4 stars dominate BOP or at least did when I last played.   I truly believe champ levels were an afterthought and just happened to work out in the devs favor monetarily.   I liked the game when everyone was potentially equal.   Alliance wars meant something. You could forgo some rewards to attack a whole slice because rewards weren't the end all of everything.   Entrailbucket  can verify those days I bet.   Now a days,  you have to scrape every last reward or someone else will get an advantage.  Alliances used to be like minded people who generally played the same slice at least for pvp, now they are just a means to an end for rewards.   Alliance families were about building a community, now its about hoarding resources.  I know I'm showing my age in this game,  but I think it was better back then.   

The devs didn't ruin this -- players did.

Buyclubs, multi-alliance BCs, and PvE mercs ruined the high-level community.  There are a few small corners of the game that don't do any of those things (like my alliance, even today) but most people are happy to cooperate with anyone if it means better rewards for them personally.

For me, I will always take less rewards for myself if It means you get less.  I'd rather pay $100 for 7cp and have it all go to my alliance than pay $100 for 140cp and have it go to a random group of *players* from other alliances.  I have no interest in cooperating in PvP so we can both score 4000, I'd much rather score 600 and keep you below 1000.

The entire high level game used to be like me.  Now basically nobody is left.  Players don't realize that this focus on maximizing rewards with zero competition and zero teamwork just strips all the fun out of the game. 

Vets are terrified of missing even the smallest reward, for fear they'll "fall behind." It creates this pile of paranoid, isolated reward-mongers who don't even know why they keep playing but are too afraid to stop.  I miss out on rewards all the time, and the game is much more fun because I do.

**Mod note: Replaced an insult with a more appropriate term. Please see rule 7. - fight4thedream

grunth13

entrailbucket said:

grunth13 said:

Don't get me wrong.   I enjoyed the game when it was 3 and 4 stars.   I enjoys it a little less when 5 stars were introduced, but still manageable.   I think the game went off the deep end when bonus levels were introduced.   And truly made it unmanageable when 5 stars were introduced every 6 weeks.   The characters were never meant to gain those extra 100 levels,  hence why we saw such crazy scaling of powers.   It's why 4 stars dominate BOP or at least did when I last played.   I truly believe champ levels were an afterthought and just happened to work out in the devs favor monetarily.   I liked the game when everyone was potentially equal.   Alliance wars meant something. You could forgo some rewards to attack a whole slice because rewards weren't the end all of everything.   Entrailbucket  can verify those days I bet.   Now a days,  you have to scrape every last reward or someone else will get an advantage.  Alliances used to be like minded people who generally played the same slice at least for pvp, now they are just a means to an end for rewards.   Alliance families were about building a community, now its about hoarding resources.  I know I'm showing my age in this game,  but I think it was better back then.   

The devs didn't ruin this -- players did.

Buyclubs, multi-alliance BCs, and PvE mercs ruined the high-level community.  There are a few small corners of the game that don't do any of those things (like my alliance, even today) but most people are happy to cooperate with anyone if it means better rewards for them personally.

For me, I will always take less rewards for myself if It means you get less.  I'd rather pay $100 for 7cp and have it all go to my alliance than pay $100 for 140cp and have it go to a random group of *players* from other alliances.  I have no interest in cooperating in PvP so we can both score 4000, I'd much rather score 600 and keep you below 1000.

The entire high level game used to be like me.  Now basically nobody is left.  Players don't realize that this focus on maximizing rewards with zero competition and zero teamwork just strips all the fun out of the game. 

Vets are terrified of missing even the smallest reward, for fear they'll "fall behind." It creates this pile of paranoid, isolated reward-mongers who don't even know why they keep playing but are too afraid to stop.  I miss out on rewards all the time, and the game is much more fun because I do.

I've played it both ways,  and I'll say,  the most fun was the wars,  but it's not sustainable because I'm only 1 person and people can run to other slices, and it needs to be a 24/7 suppression because once they get high enough,  you can't stop 5 star behemoth rosters fast enough. It's why I liked classic cupcake teams,  because if you caught one,  you could give a -225 if you caught it just right... and a minimum -150. Those were demoralizing. 

TheEyeDoctorsWife

There are so many obvious ways to make the game a more even playing field .  Easiest would be signing up for PvP slices before it opens only .  Much like every gambling system in the world , once the game starts you’re locked out of betting on it’s final outcome . I see so many players who think they’re clever by jumping into a marathon at the 25th mile and winning the medal . Limiting roster use to a character being used offensively only X amount of times per 24 hours would also make all those with auto pilot rosters be required to think . Imagine using more than 2% of your roster to play , wow !

entrailbucket

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

There are so many obvious ways to make the game a more even playing field .  Easiest would be signing up for PvP slices before it opens only .  Much like every gambling system in the world , once the game starts you’re locked out of betting on it’s final outcome . I see so many players who think they’re clever by jumping into a marathon at the 25th mile and winning the medal . Limiting roster use to a character being used offensively only X amount of times per 24 hours would also make all those with auto pilot rosters be required to think . Imagine using more than 2% of your roster to play , wow !

You'd be able to hear the complaints from outer space, for one...but also, if the devs implemented then stuck with any of that stuff, the super-optimizers would solve it all anyway, the same way they solved CL10 PvE, post-cupcakes PvP, every single meta, etc.


The fix for this is already in progress -- when these players burn out (and they will burn out/are already burning out) nobody will replace them. 

The Line community gets a little smaller every day.  The game won't die without them.  It doesn't need them and they won't be missed.

grunth13

entrailbucket said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

There are so many obvious ways to make the game a more even playing field .  Easiest would be signing up for PvP slices before it opens only .  Much like every gambling system in the world , once the game starts you’re locked out of betting on it’s final outcome . I see so many players who think they’re clever by jumping into a marathon at the 25th mile and winning the medal . Limiting roster use to a character being used offensively only X amount of times per 24 hours would also make all those with auto pilot rosters be required to think . Imagine using more than 2% of your roster to play , wow !

You'd be able to hear the complaints from outer space, for one...but also, if the devs implemented then stuck with any of that stuff, the super-optimizers would solve it all anyway, the same way they solved CL10 PvE, post-cupcakes PvP, every single meta, etc.


The fix for this is already in progress -- when these players burn out (and they will burn out/are already burning out) nobody will replace them. 

The Line community gets a little smaller every day.  The game won't die without them.  It doesn't need them and they won't be missed.

The game won't die without them,  but the money will significantly dry up without them. 

entrailbucket

grunth13 said:

entrailbucket said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

There are so many obvious ways to make the game a more even playing field .  Easiest would be signing up for PvP slices before it opens only .  Much like every gambling system in the world , once the game starts you’re locked out of betting on it’s final outcome . I see so many players who think they’re clever by jumping into a marathon at the 25th mile and winning the medal . Limiting roster use to a character being used offensively only X amount of times per 24 hours would also make all those with auto pilot rosters be required to think . Imagine using more than 2% of your roster to play , wow !

You'd be able to hear the complaints from outer space, for one...but also, if the devs implemented then stuck with any of that stuff, the super-optimizers would solve it all anyway, the same way they solved CL10 PvE, post-cupcakes PvP, every single meta, etc.


The fix for this is already in progress -- when these players burn out (and they will burn out/are already burning out) nobody will replace them. 

The Line community gets a little smaller every day.  The game won't die without them.  It doesn't need them and they won't be missed.

The game won't die without them,  but the money will significantly dry up without them. 

You've been gone awhile.  Most of the top players don't spend anything at all now, and haven't for some time. 

Once they got Okoye to 550 there was nothing else to buy, so they built huge hoards for free and can now 550 any new characters at launch.

MPQ has always made most of its money from the lower tier players.  The whales were a bonus for them, but they're gone now and the game is doing fine.

HoundofShadow

In the past few surveys where they asked players' reasons for choosing certain characters of each tier as their favourite, they will give 10 choices or so. Here are the choices and the question:

Which of the following is the biggest reason that your Favorite Rare X tier Character is A?

A. They are my strongest character
B. They help me complete Versus battles faster
C. Their abilities are fun/cool
D. This character was hard for me to get
E. They help me complete Story battles faster
F. Something else
G. They work well with my other characters
H. They work well against offensive enemies
I. I like how they look; the character art
J. I like them from their comic(s)/movie(s)
K. They work well against defensive enemies

The reasons you consistently choose might share insights into how you approach the game. Players who always see "MPQ is all about speed" will likely to choose B or E. Players who play really casually might go for  A, I, or J.

grunth13

entrailbucket said:

grunth13 said:

entrailbucket said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

There are so many obvious ways to make the game a more even playing field .  Easiest would be signing up for PvP slices before it opens only .  Much like every gambling system in the world , once the game starts you’re locked out of betting on it’s final outcome . I see so many players who think they’re clever by jumping into a marathon at the 25th mile and winning the medal . Limiting roster use to a character being used offensively only X amount of times per 24 hours would also make all those with auto pilot rosters be required to think . Imagine using more than 2% of your roster to play , wow !

You'd be able to hear the complaints from outer space, for one...but also, if the devs implemented then stuck with any of that stuff, the super-optimizers would solve it all anyway, the same way they solved CL10 PvE, post-cupcakes PvP, every single meta, etc.


The fix for this is already in progress -- when these players burn out (and they will burn out/are already burning out) nobody will replace them. 

The Line community gets a little smaller every day.  The game won't die without them.  It doesn't need them and they won't be missed.

The game won't die without them,  but the money will significantly dry up without them. 

You've been gone awhile.  Most of the top players don't spend anything at all now, and haven't for some time. 

Once they got Okoye to 550 there was nothing else to buy, so they built huge hoards for free and can now 550 any new characters at launch.

MPQ has always made most of its money from the lower tier players.  The whales were a bonus for them, but they're gone now and the game is doing fine.

Granted,  but many opened their hoards for apoc, ons, and ihulk.  Soon after sw and colossus came I think.   Now shang chi is there,  so some may break their hoards for him.   So majority of the hoards are probably gone.   Hoards take about 2 years to accrue without spending.   When I quit,  I had about 2200 to 2400 pulls saved and still sitting there.   When people break hoards,  they aren't going after 450 to 460 characters,  they want instant godhood with 3x550 and whatever else extras they get with the rewards.  You never bought in buy clubs,  so you probably don't see them very active.   Buy clubs were taking a while because of the method of verifying,  but since the added the option of displaying who bought,  they were super quick.   I bet enough are still going on and on consistent basis that they would put a cent in their bottom line.   Devs have traditionally listened to buy club boycotts, most likely die to the impact they have. 

Sekilicious

I would love to see the statistics on whether buy clubs or new player micro transactions drive the MPQ economy. I would be willing to bet they have an somewhat equal share. I would probably hedge that bet towards whales though. I would guess you need a thousand minnows or about 100 dolphins to meet the spending of a single whale. The best economic strategy would be to keep them all spending.

JackDeath666

There are still some of us playing who appreciate that it is called "Versus" and should be played as such. 

entrailbucket

Sekilicious said:

I would love to see the statistics on whether buy clubs or new player micro transactions drive the MPQ economy. I would be willing to bet they have an somewhat equal share. I would probably hedge that bet towards whales though. I would guess you need a thousand minnows or about 100 dolphins to meet the spending of a single whale. The best economic strategy would be to keep them all spending.

All this stuff used to be publicly reported by the app stores...I'm not sure if you can still get to it though.  For a very long time (certainly after the rise of buyclubs and whales), their biggest moneymaker by dollars was the $10 HP pack, and it wasn't particularly close. 

I don't know of any buyclubs for Loonies.

I really can't speak to how often buyclubs are still happening because I've never done one and never will, but I have heard that they're much, much less common now.

St_Bernadus

entrailbucket said:

The Line community gets a little smaller every day.  The game won't die without them.  It doesn't need them and they won't be missed.

I know many players who say they would have quit long ago if not for the Line community (including myself).

Maybe the game does not need them but they make it more fun.

entrailbucket

Sure, they (we -- I'm in my alliance chats only, haven't been in anything else for about 6 years) make it more fun, and easier to play, *for each other*.  The Line community is roughly the top 1-2% of all players in the game.  These players do absolutely nothing for the other 98% of players.

If all of those players magically disappeared tomorrow, the next group of players would just take over the placements that Line players currently feel entitled to.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

entrailbucket said:

Sure, they (we -- I'm in my alliance chats only, haven't been in anything else for about 6 years) make it more fun, and easier to play, *for each other*.  The Line community is roughly the top 1-2% of all players in the game.  These players do absolutely nothing for the other 98% of players.

If all of those players magically disappeared tomorrow, the next group of players would just take over the placements that Line players currently feel entitled to.

I respectfully, and rarely , disagree with  your comment . For example , it’s been determined the human race moves forward only through the efforts of the top 2% of humanity , the other 98% are basically treading water. ( Although I’m aware the world needs ditch diggers too ). If we removed that 2% , our species would be extinct in 100 years . Likewise , it’s those top 2% of players who are literally keeping the game alive for the rest of us .  

entrailbucket

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

entrailbucket said:

Sure, they (we -- I'm in my alliance chats only, haven't been in anything else for about 6 years) make it more fun, and easier to play, *for each other*.  The Line community is roughly the top 1-2% of all players in the game.  These players do absolutely nothing for the other 98% of players.

If all of those players magically disappeared tomorrow, the next group of players would just take over the placements that Line players currently feel entitled to.

I respectfully, and rarely , disagree with  your comment . For example , it’s been determined the human race moves forward only through the efforts of the top 2% of humanity , the other 98% are basically treading water. ( Although I’m aware the world needs ditch diggers too ). If we removed that 2% , our species would be extinct in 100 years . Likewise , it’s those top 2% of players who are literally keeping the game alive for the rest of us .  

Several years ago this may have been true, but a few big things changed. 

Just to be clear, I'm referring to the players who take the top 2% of placements, which isn't exactly the same as the top 2% of players.

But there's been a significant rise in the level of discourse and analysis in other channels, like here and on Reddit.  If Line disappeared there would still be high-level discussions happening elsewhere, which wasn't always the case.  The forum was pretty dire for awhile.

And also, the Line community has gotten really insular.  They're not sharing insights the way they were many years ago -- all that stuff is kept internal, because they're so concerned about keeping their place at the top.

When I came back here I was pretty shocked at how little folks knew about the more obscure mechanics and internals of the PvP game...stuff that's common knowledge among most of the players I know on Line.  (Not trying to put anyone down here, none of that stuff is at all obvious, and we spent years working it all out).

Bad

The interest in the game is what moves the people to know things of it, and to be good at playing it. 
Perhaps some people feel entitled themselves for to be a 8 years vet and for to be in a top alliance and for to win the top rewards.
Personally my job won't never let me to achieve any of these things.
However if my RMM lets me, I can steal 75 points to a great roster in the top at any time, so perhaps actually there is no so huge gap between the two of us, potentially, although I will mostly always achieve 1200 points and stop.

St_Bernadus

My Line group (my alliance family) is very much not just the top 2%.

The cross alliance pvp battle chats had more of those high placing players but still there was a good vibe. 

entrailbucket

St_Bernadus said:

My Line group (my alliance family) is very much not just the top 2%.

The cross alliance pvp battle chats had more of those high placing players but still there was a good vibe. 

Does your Line group have a lot of 3* and 4* players who place in the top 50 or top 100 in CL6 or 7?  That sort of player is incredibly rare there, but maybe they do exist.

I hear this sort of thing all the time.  For some reason, everyone massively underestimates their position in the hierarchy.  I know players with multiple 550s, who finish in the top 10 of cl10 PvP and PvE regularly, who think they have "small rosters."  Small compared to who?  The one or two players who have everyone maxed out?

5% of mpq players have at least one champion 5*.  If you've got multiple champion 5*, and you finish with decent placement in the highest possible CL, you're definitely the top 2%.

The devs need to keep us all chasing.  They need to keep us looking up at better rosters than us to make sure we're never satisfied.  Lots of players might be happier if they sometimes looked down, though.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

entrailbucket said:

St_Bernadus said:

My Line group (my alliance family) is very much not just the top 2%.

The cross alliance pvp battle chats had more of those high placing players but still there was a good vibe. 

Does your Line group have a lot of 3* and 4* players who place in the top 50 or top 100 in CL6 or 7?  That sort of player is incredibly rare there, but maybe they do exist.

I hear this sort of thing all the time.  For some reason, everyone massively underestimates their position in the hierarchy.  I know players with multiple 550s, who finish in the top 10 of cl10 PvP and PvE regularly, who think they have "small rosters."  Small compared to who?  The one or two players who have everyone maxed out?

5% of mpq players have at least one champion 5*.  If you've got multiple champion 5*, and you finish with decent placement in the highest possible CL, you're definitely the top 2%.

The devs need to keep us all chasing.  They need to keep us looking up at better rosters than us to make sure we're never satisfied.  Lots of players might be happier if they sometimes looked down, though.

On a side note and I hope this doesn’t get branched off to a new post , but I have a member in my alliance with over 50% 5* “champed “ at 13 covers yet they’re all 255-265. Explain this logic and is it rational to play that way ?

dianetics

Pretty sure its so they can stay in the 4* tier for pvp.