ThaRoadWarrior said: Tiger_Wong said: ThaRoadWarrior said:Coming back to Ultron - why are we worried about AP denial in 2021? As Tiger-Wong pointed out, we're here deep in that heavy match-damage meta (which to be quite honest, I don't think is actually what the 5Witch/Colossus meta is - it's a heavy defense meta that rewards stunners and big single target hitters rather than the free AOE meta we are coming off of. 5Witch punishes heavy cascades just as much as she does bulk micro-hits, and Colossus's black is doing the heavy lifting offensively more than his match damage in my experience) so what is the point of only reducing AP? Odin does that too, which makes me think the devs think it matters for some reason? Or potentially is going to matter? I also don’t think Scarlett Steel is about the match damage meta as much as great defense. You either stun them then hit them or hit one of the hard with a one hitter nuke. I also agree that Ultron doesn’t look stellar on paper but he has to be controlled to know the deal. His CD I’m looking to use for the stun more than the AP destruction. A black stun that costs 8 AP? I’m here for it. Not a fan of the CD but it is fortified. I really feel like a passive CD/repeater manipulating character would turn the meta upside down. And I think it’s coming soon. If you had a character who was passively decrimenting Repeater tiles, you'd suddenly see a TON of Ronans I can tell you that much.
Tiger_Wong said: ThaRoadWarrior said:Coming back to Ultron - why are we worried about AP denial in 2021? As Tiger-Wong pointed out, we're here deep in that heavy match-damage meta (which to be quite honest, I don't think is actually what the 5Witch/Colossus meta is - it's a heavy defense meta that rewards stunners and big single target hitters rather than the free AOE meta we are coming off of. 5Witch punishes heavy cascades just as much as she does bulk micro-hits, and Colossus's black is doing the heavy lifting offensively more than his match damage in my experience) so what is the point of only reducing AP? Odin does that too, which makes me think the devs think it matters for some reason? Or potentially is going to matter? I also don’t think Scarlett Steel is about the match damage meta as much as great defense. You either stun them then hit them or hit one of the hard with a one hitter nuke. I also agree that Ultron doesn’t look stellar on paper but he has to be controlled to know the deal. His CD I’m looking to use for the stun more than the AP destruction. A black stun that costs 8 AP? I’m here for it. Not a fan of the CD but it is fortified. I really feel like a passive CD/repeater manipulating character would turn the meta upside down. And I think it’s coming soon.
ThaRoadWarrior said:Coming back to Ultron - why are we worried about AP denial in 2021? As Tiger-Wong pointed out, we're here deep in that heavy match-damage meta (which to be quite honest, I don't think is actually what the 5Witch/Colossus meta is - it's a heavy defense meta that rewards stunners and big single target hitters rather than the free AOE meta we are coming off of. 5Witch punishes heavy cascades just as much as she does bulk micro-hits, and Colossus's black is doing the heavy lifting offensively more than his match damage in my experience) so what is the point of only reducing AP? Odin does that too, which makes me think the devs think it matters for some reason? Or potentially is going to matter?
Anon said: In his 5* thread @Daredevil217 mentioned that in a tier like this, it's better to do one thing extremely well than do a bunch of things mediocre, and it's true. You look at all the meta characters and they're used for 1 or 2 specific reasons. Kitty, Okoye, and Apocalypse are used for boosting. BRB, Wanda, and Colossus are used for defense. Thor is used for AP generation. Then you look at characters like Knull, Ultron, and Ronan who are trying to do too many things at once and failing miserably.Simplicity is key.
justsing said: Sekilicious said: ThaRoadWarrior said: Sekilicious said: As a 4* player looking to transition to 5* play these ‘mediocre’ characters are better than anything I have. There is a thread that showed we can transition using the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider as a solo champ. In a meta with Griity and Thoyoke. I get everyone’s philosophy is if you’re not first you’re last but this is kind of ridiculous That was my first Grand Experiment thread that seems to have been retired with the sub-forum it existed in during a site cleanup. Mediocre chracters from the above tier are definitely better than who you have, but as soon as you champ them, the threats you get matched up against in PVP will immediately scale up to a degree you are likely to find oppressive. The big takeaway from my GRRR experience was that he was thoroughly ill-equipped to combat the Kitty/Rocket meta, because the qualitative difference between Kitty and Ghost Rider is not something that MMR takes into account, except I was then exclusively matched up against single champ kitty and max-champ rocket basically until Sabretooth was released. Her ability to scale damage turn on turn immediately and passively was something that even a hard hitting (relative to the time) Ghost Rider was too slow to do anything about. At that time pre-shard, it was very difficult to chase counter characters, even at the 4* tier, so I spent the entirity of that meta trying my best to come up with some sort of reasonable team to exist in there. Main event Hulk, my second champed 5* Dr Doom could do it if he legit died in the match, so that left me trying to go solo...it just felt incredibly punishing and there was no reasonable time-frame character growth option for me besides sticking it out or selling off my 5*s to drop back down. Thanks for clarifying your perspective. Mine is that a single champed Ultron would make PvP significantly more difficult than Polaris and her various counters with a 4* MMR. A single champed Kitty or BRB may make PvP more bearable than Ultron, but a single champed Ultron would make PvE in SCL10 possible beyond spamming endless Winfinites, though maybe not the challenge node. Getting to top-50 to 100 in SCL10 every event is a significant hurdle to champing every 5* as they are released. Not sure why you think a single champed Ultron would be more useful in SCL10 PVE than single champed Kitty or BRB…….. I play SCL10 PVE with a single champed Kitty on my alt account and do fine. Kitty is faster than BRB, especially when you can use R4G as a 3rd. But champed BRB isn’t that slow either since Polaris pairs well with him and fuels his AP gen.
Sekilicious said: ThaRoadWarrior said: Sekilicious said: As a 4* player looking to transition to 5* play these ‘mediocre’ characters are better than anything I have. There is a thread that showed we can transition using the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider as a solo champ. In a meta with Griity and Thoyoke. I get everyone’s philosophy is if you’re not first you’re last but this is kind of ridiculous That was my first Grand Experiment thread that seems to have been retired with the sub-forum it existed in during a site cleanup. Mediocre chracters from the above tier are definitely better than who you have, but as soon as you champ them, the threats you get matched up against in PVP will immediately scale up to a degree you are likely to find oppressive. The big takeaway from my GRRR experience was that he was thoroughly ill-equipped to combat the Kitty/Rocket meta, because the qualitative difference between Kitty and Ghost Rider is not something that MMR takes into account, except I was then exclusively matched up against single champ kitty and max-champ rocket basically until Sabretooth was released. Her ability to scale damage turn on turn immediately and passively was something that even a hard hitting (relative to the time) Ghost Rider was too slow to do anything about. At that time pre-shard, it was very difficult to chase counter characters, even at the 4* tier, so I spent the entirity of that meta trying my best to come up with some sort of reasonable team to exist in there. Main event Hulk, my second champed 5* Dr Doom could do it if he legit died in the match, so that left me trying to go solo...it just felt incredibly punishing and there was no reasonable time-frame character growth option for me besides sticking it out or selling off my 5*s to drop back down. Thanks for clarifying your perspective. Mine is that a single champed Ultron would make PvP significantly more difficult than Polaris and her various counters with a 4* MMR. A single champed Kitty or BRB may make PvP more bearable than Ultron, but a single champed Ultron would make PvE in SCL10 possible beyond spamming endless Winfinites, though maybe not the challenge node. Getting to top-50 to 100 in SCL10 every event is a significant hurdle to champing every 5* as they are released.
ThaRoadWarrior said: Sekilicious said: As a 4* player looking to transition to 5* play these ‘mediocre’ characters are better than anything I have. There is a thread that showed we can transition using the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider as a solo champ. In a meta with Griity and Thoyoke. I get everyone’s philosophy is if you’re not first you’re last but this is kind of ridiculous That was my first Grand Experiment thread that seems to have been retired with the sub-forum it existed in during a site cleanup. Mediocre chracters from the above tier are definitely better than who you have, but as soon as you champ them, the threats you get matched up against in PVP will immediately scale up to a degree you are likely to find oppressive. The big takeaway from my GRRR experience was that he was thoroughly ill-equipped to combat the Kitty/Rocket meta, because the qualitative difference between Kitty and Ghost Rider is not something that MMR takes into account, except I was then exclusively matched up against single champ kitty and max-champ rocket basically until Sabretooth was released. Her ability to scale damage turn on turn immediately and passively was something that even a hard hitting (relative to the time) Ghost Rider was too slow to do anything about. At that time pre-shard, it was very difficult to chase counter characters, even at the 4* tier, so I spent the entirity of that meta trying my best to come up with some sort of reasonable team to exist in there. Main event Hulk, my second champed 5* Dr Doom could do it if he legit died in the match, so that left me trying to go solo...it just felt incredibly punishing and there was no reasonable time-frame character growth option for me besides sticking it out or selling off my 5*s to drop back down.
Sekilicious said: As a 4* player looking to transition to 5* play these ‘mediocre’ characters are better than anything I have. There is a thread that showed we can transition using the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider as a solo champ. In a meta with Griity and Thoyoke. I get everyone’s philosophy is if you’re not first you’re last but this is kind of ridiculous
Polares said: PS: On a personal note I disagree with some of the analysis of single chars, specially with Adam. After Colossus and Wand/Elektro were released Adam has basically disappeared from my teams. ...
TheEyeDoctorsWife said: I think the obviously successful business model of 2 meta per year we already have observed as set in stone . You’re talking to the wall if you think they’re going to sacrifice profits for your personal preference.
entrailbucket said: TheEyeDoctorsWife said: I think the obviously successful business model of 2 meta per year we already have observed as set in stone . You’re talking to the wall if you think they’re going to sacrifice profits for your personal preference. They could make a lot more profit if whales had an actual advantage vs the zero-spend players who dominate now. If the meta required you to have more than 2 characters at a high level to win, the free to play hoarders would get priced out pretty fast (and nobody would miss them).
TheEyeDoctorsWife said: entrailbucket said: TheEyeDoctorsWife said: I think the obviously successful business model of 2 meta per year we already have observed as set in stone . You’re talking to the wall if you think they’re going to sacrifice profits for your personal preference. They could make a lot more profit if whales had an actual advantage vs the zero-spend players who dominate now. If the meta required you to have more than 2 characters at a high level to win, the free to play hoarders would get priced out pretty fast (and nobody would miss them). I think even the whales would get out priced and give up as there’s always a bigger whale out there . Plus can you imagine the fanboy hoard lovers who wait for that meta to arrive if every release was a “must have to keep up with the Jones”? This isn’t Apple where every release is better than the previous . And even in that business paradigm , customers aren’t waiting in line because they absolutely must have the newest device released .
entrailbucket said: One important piece of information: most of these players used to be big spenders, many in the five-figure range.They stopped spending completely once they realized you only need one or two characters to win everything. If you still needed to spend to win, they absolutely would. These are not sane people.I don't think the devs woke up one day and suddenly decided "let's voluntarily give up hundreds of thousands of dollars to make our most dedicated, angriest players stick around forever!"
marshall said: I've been at this game for almost 6.5 years and I can say that players are right about what is going to be meta 50% of the time at best. More recently Knull was hyped up to be the must crack hoard open char to take to 550 and while fine, he did not change the meta at all. Colossus on the other hand was quickly dismissed and is now a mainstay even without SW.