***** Shang-Chi (Origin) *****

jp1

DAZ0273 said:

jp1 said:

On the other hand we get people like Shang Chi released while there are AAA characters yet to see the light of day. 

Shang Chi starred in his own comic book for 9 years, a pretty impressive achievement especially as he did so without too much interaction with the wider Marvel characters (he didn't need gimmick pairing up's like Powerman & Iron Fist to rescue his comic book). He might not be AAA but then again, nor were the likes of Blade, Ghost Rider or even Daredevil. I think he is solid as a release, even if there wasn't a film.

Assuming this is Shang Chi of course.

I guess it’s a different perspective. As a kid from the comic book era, his comic wasn’t in my shops. If it was it certainly wasn’t prominent. There are 100 characters off the top of my head that “should” be implemented first if we are going off of popularity from comics. 

Of course that’s anecdotal from my own experience l. But, I wasn’t introduced to comics from the MCU if that’s what your impression is…in fact I would have preferred Marvel didn't fold and we got movies that actually tackled the more adult side thematically rather than popcorn fare we ended up with. 

Those representations of life were more real and less cartoon fodder to me and generally speaking if Ragnarok (and that is my favorite MCU movie) was the best Marvel had ever had to offer, I wouldn’t be a fan at all. Nostalgia is what keeps me going with it. 

I’ll grant that specifically Shang Chi probably has nostalgic value for king fu fans or early Asian representation, which is a good thing. The part I don’t like is we will never see some of the far more popular characters due to the PC culture and Disney being unwilling to push any boundaries. 

Anyway, enough tangential dribble. Like I said, his power set looks very interesting. I’ll chase him all the same.

DAZ0273

jp1 said:

DAZ0273 said:

jp1 said:

On the other hand we get people like Shang Chi released while there are AAA characters yet to see the light of day. 

Shang Chi starred in his own comic book for 9 years, a pretty impressive achievement especially as he did so without too much interaction with the wider Marvel characters (he didn't need gimmick pairing up's like Powerman & Iron Fist to rescue his comic book). He might not be AAA but then again, nor were the likes of Blade, Ghost Rider or even Daredevil. I think he is solid as a release, even if there wasn't a film.

Assuming this is Shang Chi of course.

I guess it’s a different perspective. As a kid from the comic book era, his comic wasn’t in my shops. If it was it certainly wasn’t prominent. There are 100 characters off the top of my head that “should” be implemented first if we are going off of popularity from comics. 

Of course that’s anecdotal from my own experience l. But, I wasn’t introduced to comics from the MCU if that’s what your impression is…in fact I would have preferred Marvel didn't fold and we got movies that actually tackled the more adult side thematically rather than popcorn fare we ended up with. 

Those representations of life were more real and less cartoon fodder to me and generally speaking if Ragnarok (and that is my favorite MCU movie) was the best Marvel had ever had to offer, I wouldn’t be a fan at all. Nostalgia is what keeps me going with it. 

I’ll grant that specifically Shang Chi probably has nostalgic value for king fu fans or early Asian representation, which is a good thing. The part I don’t like is we will never see some of the far more popular characters due to the PC culture and Disney being unwilling to push any boundaries. 

Anyway, enough tangential dribble. Like I said, his power set looks very interesting. I’ll chase him all the same.

True, we are obviously driven by our own perspective and exposure to source material. That said, I think it is an interesting topic as to what people consider to be top tier characters in any genre. Shang Chi disappeared from comic book shops for a long period so it is easy to understand why he might be considered second or third rate.

Strangely enough - your avatar is a bug bear of mine, lol! Omega Red - now that is a character I have never understood the popularity of! I guess Jim Lee drawn X-Men was da bomb but man that was a phoned in story that introduced him and nothing since has ever changed my mind! I am prepared to be the minority here though!

jp1

DAZ0273 said:

jp1 said:

DAZ0273 said:

jp1 said:

On the other hand we get people like Shang Chi released while there are AAA characters yet to see the light of day. 

Shang Chi starred in his own comic book for 9 years, a pretty impressive achievement especially as he did so without too much interaction with the wider Marvel characters (he didn't need gimmick pairing up's like Powerman & Iron Fist to rescue his comic book). He might not be AAA but then again, nor were the likes of Blade, Ghost Rider or even Daredevil. I think he is solid as a release, even if there wasn't a film.

Assuming this is Shang Chi of course.

I guess it’s a different perspective. As a kid from the comic book era, his comic wasn’t in my shops. If it was it certainly wasn’t prominent. There are 100 characters off the top of my head that “should” be implemented first if we are going off of popularity from comics. 

Of course that’s anecdotal from my own experience l. But, I wasn’t introduced to comics from the MCU if that’s what your impression is…in fact I would have preferred Marvel didn't fold and we got movies that actually tackled the more adult side thematically rather than popcorn fare we ended up with. 

Those representations of life were more real and less cartoon fodder to me and generally speaking if Ragnarok (and that is my favorite MCU movie) was the best Marvel had ever had to offer, I wouldn’t be a fan at all. Nostalgia is what keeps me going with it. 

I’ll grant that specifically Shang Chi probably has nostalgic value for king fu fans or early Asian representation, which is a good thing. The part I don’t like is we will never see some of the far more popular characters due to the PC culture and Disney being unwilling to push any boundaries. 

Anyway, enough tangential dribble. Like I said, his power set looks very interesting. I’ll chase him all the same.

True, we are obviously driven by our own perspective and exposure to source material. That said, I think it is an interesting topic as to what people consider to be top tier characters in any genre. Shang Chi disappeared from comic book shops for a long period so it is easy to understand why he might be considered second or third rate.

Strangely enough - your avatar is a bug bear of mine, lol! Omega Red - now that is a character I have never understood the popularity of! I guess Jim Lee drawn X-Men was da bomb but man that was a phoned in story that introduced him and nothing since has ever changed my mind! I am prepared to be the minority here though!

Good point. Everyone has their own flavor of Ice Cream. 

As a Wolvie gen kid O-Red was a staple in some favorite issues. Nostalgia…

Bad

Sang chi, the son of Fu Manchu is a great character who inspired love for the martial arts and kung fu, at least it inspired that to me.
It was a comic containing a bit more violence than Disney is used to, although the teaser looks good.

entrailbucket

fight4thedream said:

entrailbucket said:

This guy is really sort of a Rorschach test for players.  I suspect the majority of players will think he's worthless, and for them he will indeed be worthless.  Other players will think he's one of the best.

This is the kind of character they should be making though.  Players who like strategy can play with him slowly and strategically and beat anything, but crucially, he doesn't force anyone else to play the same way when fighting him. 

It'd be like Colossus reducing match damage, but only when he's on offense (which, now that I think about it, is how that power should work.  Would anyone still use him?)

It's interesting that you mention Colossus because he is a hard counter to this character, no? 

For those interested in running this character, a friend of mine pointed out that 5* Iceman complements his power set pretty well. With this characters board control, it should be easier to utilize Ice's stun which will be very important when dealing with Wanda/Colossus teams in PvP. The only big issue will be maintaining your combo while trying to set up Ice's stun. 

Colossus significantly slows him down.  I don't know how much it matters, because he's probably gonna be slow no matter what, and I can't see him being used at all if speed is a factor.

Jimsta_rooney

entrailbucket said:

fight4thedream said:

entrailbucket said:

This guy is really sort of a Rorschach test for players.  I suspect the majority of players will think he's worthless, and for them he will indeed be worthless.  Other players will think he's one of the best.

This is the kind of character they should be making though.  Players who like strategy can play with him slowly and strategically and beat anything, but crucially, he doesn't force anyone else to play the same way when fighting him. 

It'd be like Colossus reducing match damage, but only when he's on offense (which, now that I think about it, is how that power should work.  Would anyone still use him?)

It's interesting that you mention Colossus because he is a hard counter to this character, no? 

For those interested in running this character, a friend of mine pointed out that 5* Iceman complements his power set pretty well. With this characters board control, it should be easier to utilize Ice's stun which will be very important when dealing with Wanda/Colossus teams in PvP. The only big issue will be maintaining your combo while trying to set up Ice's stun. 

Colossus significantly slows him down.  I don't know how much it matters, because he's probably gonna be slow no matter what, and I can't see him being used at all if speed is a factor.

He could be quick with colossus, and only shares one colour.
Has potential to be game breaking tbg

IceIX

As many surmised, the next character is indeed Shang-Chi! Not so well surmised though, is that he is a Hero (duh), Avenger (also duh), and a kinda Defender. Stark Defender that is, on Team Iron Man!

KGB

At +536 match damage (5 covers) he will essentially (minus a few specialized characters like IHulk) be tanking all colors once he makes 2 Red/Purple matches.  The match damage meta continues!

With a 5/3/5 build you get the ability to destroy 5 tiles so can hopefully create a couple of matches of Red/Purple to get his match damage really high for your move and your next turn move.

Any character / team up that can create cascades or take extra turns will be super useful.

KGB

Omegased

Find it funny how people complaining about Shang Chi saying he's not an AAA character...

When his movie is coming out...

Bad

He is the shang-chi of the film... I like more the old karategi yellow and red suit, his bandana and the ying-yang in the back.
Could you make that skin for him please?

Anon

I cant tell if he's good or not. Like yeah his match damage can get crazy but besides that he doesn't really do much. Then again I was horribly wrong about Colossus as well so I'll see if I eat crow twice this year.

Scorpion201

Unfortunately he's 5 not 4 star, once again 4 star players getting left out, i'll take a big pass on his pvp and introduction events. good for everyone else.

entrailbucket

Jimsta_rooney said:

entrailbucket said:

fight4thedream said:

entrailbucket said:

This guy is really sort of a Rorschach test for players.  I suspect the majority of players will think he's worthless, and for them he will indeed be worthless.  Other players will think he's one of the best.

This is the kind of character they should be making though.  Players who like strategy can play with him slowly and strategically and beat anything, but crucially, he doesn't force anyone else to play the same way when fighting him. 

It'd be like Colossus reducing match damage, but only when he's on offense (which, now that I think about it, is how that power should work.  Would anyone still use him?)

It's interesting that you mention Colossus because he is a hard counter to this character, no? 

For those interested in running this character, a friend of mine pointed out that 5* Iceman complements his power set pretty well. With this characters board control, it should be easier to utilize Ice's stun which will be very important when dealing with Wanda/Colossus teams in PvP. The only big issue will be maintaining your combo while trying to set up Ice's stun. 

Colossus significantly slows him down.  I don't know how much it matters, because he's probably gonna be slow no matter what, and I can't see him being used at all if speed is a factor.

He could be quick with colossus, and only shares one colour.
Has potential to be game breaking tbg

I think it very much depends on how skilled you are at using his powers to make cascades.  During the last days of 3* Magneto pre-nerf, I got pretty good at it, but there were players who were just blazing fast that I could never catch up to. 

How fast can you evaluate a neutral board state and pick the right 5 tiles to eliminate that'll create a red/purple cascade?  That'll determine how good you are at Shang Chi-ing.

HoundofShadow

Numbers are not disappointing. 

At max (10) Combo Points,

Red power tile destruction damage deals at least 26,800.

He heals for 21515.

Max charged tiles: 8

Max damage increase: 5360

Red/Purple/Blue match-3 damage: 8336/8006/7676

This is easily 5/3/5 build.

Thanos

Problem is he's a stand-alone character like Yellow Jacket. you have to dedicate every match to his abilities or lose all your combo points. He's **** on D in pvp and too slow for pve. Now, I like thinking characters but they usually don't have a place in competitive formats.

His blue needs some slight tweaking. It should include blue matches, this would at least let you use another character's ability, (I.E. Onslaught). Personally, I think it should work like Okoye's black where you only lose one counter per turn if you miss a match. This would make him much more team friendly

P.S. He and Gambit could've been good friends if not for Gambit's lame black restriction.

entrailbucket

HoundofShadow said:

Numbers are not disappointing. 

At max (10) Combo Points,

Red power tile destruction damage deals at least 26,800.

He heals for 21515.

Max charged tiles: 8

Max damage increase: 5360

Red/Purple/Blue match-3 damage: 8336/8006/7676

This is easily 5/3/5 build.

Remember charged tiles deal triple match damage.  Shang Chi also has a 4.5x critical multiplier, which I think is the highest in the game.  If you can use his red to set up a red/purple double match or a t-shaped match-5, then a critical tile with all the tiles around it charged is going to produce a pretty crazy amount of damage. 

Somebody can figure out that math, there's a lot going on.

RickOShay

Well I was certainly wrong about the healing,  it looks pretty good. 
Especially since he may be tanking a lot if things go well toward building a few Combo points. 

Can't wait to see the damage when you place a crit next to an existing crit on the board, assuming 3+ combo points at that time. 
Boom.

I like tactical characters quite a bit, when there's less of a hurry.

HoundofShadow

That's why, to me, he's the 5* Karnak. Their abilities are so similar. It's just that their match damage increase are expressed in a different way. 4* Karnak critical multiplier is also 4.5x. Typically, characters with increased match damage has critical multiplier of 3.5x. Given your scenario, I think the charged red match damage should be:

992 * 3 * 6 * 4.5 = 80, 352
80,352 (match damage) +5360 (ability match damage increase) =85, 712

entrailbucket

HoundofShadow said:

That's why, to me, he's the 5* Karnak. Their abilities are so similar. It's just that their match damage increase are expressed in a different way. 4* Karnak critical multiplier is also 4.5x. Typically, characters with increased match damage has critical multiplier of 3.5x. Given your scenario, I think the charged red match damage should be:

992 * 3 * 6 * 4.5 = 80, 352
80,352 (match damage) +5360 (ability match damage increase) =85, 712

Lol and that's at lvl450!  Imagine at 570 or whatever with the boost!

I think there's actually a decent case for 5/5/3 here, but it's really all based on the math, and somewhat based on your skill level as well.  You should be able to use his red to set up a board state like that if you use it strategically enough, though. 

It might require more than one cast, but again, you're meant to chain cast his powers in one infinite turn.  Charging red and purple tiles will generate triple AP for even more casts, as well.

HoundofShadow

That's about 210k damage at level 569.

If you are going infinite with another build, at best it's 5/4/4 because you can create only a maximum of 8 charged tiles. You can't create 10. It feels like waste to me.  you don't want to create too many charged tiles because he can't destroy them.

To me, you either go infinite turn or Talos with him.