Does classic store need a boost?

entrailbucket

Theghouse said:

entrailbucket said:

Theghouse said:

The biggest con with this idea is that there is very rarely any kind of added rewards, mostly only traded rewards.  

I would not want to trade CP which I can spend anywhere in special stores or Latests, or Latest tokens i can save up for a good group of characters, or guaranteed 5* shards, for a classic token where the dilution is absolute garbage and have a very very very low chance of getting a worthwhile 5*.

I'm just over-the-moon ecstatic for the outspoken player(s?) who could pull classics for 5+ years - from the very beginning of the 4* and 5* tiers - and champ every character ever released in the game. To think that newer players can accomplish the same given the overwhelming dilution in 4* and 5* over the last 3 years of this constant release cycle is just a completely ridiculous idea and terrible advice for those who want to build a competitive roster.  It's like a lottery winner encouraging people to take money out of retirement funds and buy more lottery tickets because " look at me! I did it! There's your proof that it works! Just do exactly what I did! "

I didn't win the lottery, in fact I did exactly the opposite of that.  I made extremely slow, steady progress over a period of many years.

If you're a weightlifter just starting today, and you can only lift 100lbs, but your goal is to lift 500lbs, there's only one way to get there.  You lift a little bit more each time you work out. 

You might never reach your goal of 500lbs, but if you make a small amount of progress every week, over a very, very long period of time, it adds up.  

One thing is for sure: you'll definitely never get there if you don't work out at all and never make any progress.


If your goal isn't "get all the 5* to 550" or you think that goal is stupid or worthless, that's fine!  It's my goal, not yours, and I couldn't care less what you think about it.  My strategy supports my goal.  If you have a different goal, use a different strategy.

Yeah ok sure let's go with your weight lifter analogy instead of the lottery winner.

You could only lift 100 lbs and you want to get to lifting 500 lbs.  You joined the gym over 5 years ago and the barbells weighed exactly 100 lbs.  Over time, the gym added weight to the barbells gradually.  Now the barbells weigh 500 lbs but you can lift them because your strength grew proportionately with the increasing weight of the barbells.

Now a newbie joins the gym and can only lift 100lbs just like when you started. And you tell them "hey just use these barbells everyday and you'll get to lift 500 lbs just like me!".  Except the barbells already weigh 500 lbs.  

And you go on expecting them to be able to make the same progress you did, just because you did it starting 5 years ago under wildly different circumstances.

If a new player starts pulling classics today, it will take them longer than it took me to get a high level, competitive roster.  Nobody disputes that.

But what if they don't care about that?  What if they want to build up all the 5*, and they don't care how long it takes?

Unless they've reduced the 5* rate in classics to 0%, they will make extremely slow, steady progress on all the characters, in the same way that I did.

Jacklag

I am a reasonably new player (just recently started moving towards 5* play) and even I know pulling from Classic Legends is a waste of CP. Even as I was collecting my 4*s I knew if I pulled there I was risking getting a lot of covers of characters too weak to make any sort of difference and many covers discarded as I wouldn't have the roster slots needed to keep them all.

Not saying if they added Classic Legends Tokens to the game that I wouldn't be opening them now. I just think if I were a newer player I would still save them up until I had all main 5*s at least rostered.

What DID help me get started on my 5* collection were those Special Store tokens that used to be awarded in the end of Boss Alliance events, awarding 1 pull to a special store featuring 3 5-stars and some 4*s at extra odds. That I think would be worth it.

What I did suggest once was that they replace the Classic Legends store with a Special Classic store that rotated every week or every month, so player could make their pools more precisely. That would feature a rotating selection of five 5* classic characters and maybe 20 4*s with the same 15%/85% odds we have on all Legendary stores today. 

jredd

in pvp season rewards, between 0 and 5000 there are 14 rewards. between 5000 and 10000 inclusive, there are 4. they could easily pop a couple classics tokens in there and not take anything away. similarly, they could add some classics as 'super progression' rewards, after the final reward is reached. if you play anywhere near optimally you go way over the final reward score. add some beyond there. add some in champ rewards. lots of ways to make it happen.
 
i'm not sure why anyone would be upset at getting extra pulls at 4/5*...

HoundofShadow

Because they will balance the Classic Token by reducing your hp/cp reward in other places. At best, they might put it as a 1 time node reward in a non-time based story event held once per month. The enemy levels are probably 700-800.

Bad

Not sure if this is a positive approach. We cannot ask for nothing extra because it will be taken out on other way.
Because it has been historically like this.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, please notice the game as it is now has trascended history.
Apart from milestones and daily quest, absolutely huge amount of resources without any drawback, your most humble servant suggested once that boss events could give a LL token. And there it is. We ended winning as LL tokens are way better than any store ending in a few days.
Please let devs to think about his business, they can be generous although some people would be amazed.
And think of any special event giving CL tokens. 

TheRiddler

Jacklag said:

I am a reasonably new player (just recently started moving towards 5* play) and even I know pulling from Classic Legends is a waste of CP. Even as I was collecting my 4*s I knew if I pulled there I was risking getting a lot of covers of characters too weak to make any sort of difference and many covers discarded as I wouldn't have the roster slots needed to keep them all.

Not saying if they added Classic Legends Tokens to the game that I wouldn't be opening them now. I just think if I were a newer player I would still save them up until I had all main 5*s at least rostered.

What DID help me get started on my 5* collection were those Special Store tokens that used to be awarded in the end of Boss Alliance events, awarding 1 pull to a special store featuring 3 5-stars and some 4*s at extra odds. That I think would be worth it.

What I did suggest once was that they replace the Classic Legends store with a Special Classic store that rotated every week or every month, so player could make their pools more precisely. That would feature a rotating selection of five 5* classic characters and maybe 20 4*s with the same 15%/85% odds we have on all Legendary stores today. 

I've seen plenty of people suggest this very thing (including myself) here lately.

I'm not asking for CL tokens. I'm not complaining about long time players having a deeper roster. I'm not complaining about the boosted 5s.

But having some kind of weekly classic legends store would certainly help newer get more targeted pulls from a huge pool and some older gamers who don't have certain characters all the same. If they done a group of 3 every week it would still take 4+ months for them all to rotate through the store.

Akoni

Jacklag said:

I am a reasonably new player (just recently started moving towards 5* play) and even I know pulling from Classic Legends is a waste of CP. Even as I was collecting my 4*s I knew if I pulled there I was risking getting a lot of covers of characters too weak to make any sort of difference and many covers discarded as I wouldn't have the roster slots needed to keep them all.

Like @entrailbucket said, it depends on your goal. Pulling from CL worked well for me because I farm. If your goal is to farm, then collecting every character is important since each character gives you resources to collect the next character or resource. If your goal is to be as competitive as possible, then you should under no circumstances pull from CL. In addition, I believe that if you have no roster slots available, hoarding tokens and CP is the best thing to do since any covers for characters you do not have will be a waste. Now, I am in no way saying that you or any other player should play a certain way. Regardless of how a player chooses to play, though, there are optimized strategies for doing so.

Jacklag said:

What I did suggest once was that they replace the Classic Legends store with a Special Classic store that rotated every week or every month, so player could make their pools more precisely. That would feature a rotating selection of five 5* classic characters and maybe 20 4*s with the same 15%/85% odds we have on all Legendary stores today. 

MrEd95 said:

I haven’t read through the whole threat, so this may have already been suggested, but what if the classic store had the same boosted rotation as we now have for events.

Essentially, take for example this week’s boosted 5* list: daredevil, doc ock, gambit and spider man. Those 4 characters would have significantly boosted odds for pulling from classics for the week

it would work the same way as how we used to have increased odds for the latest 12 4* in the latest legends store.

would something like that be an option?

These are really good suggestions. The only issue I can see with boosting pull rates of 5* characters using current boosted 5* characters is that LL characters are often included in that list. For example, in PvE, Knull is boosted. Right now in PvP he is not. Of course, the specific character list can be altered for the CL store pull rate increase. What about 4*, though? Given the sheer number of 4* in the game, should their pull rates be boosted too?

Nonetheless, I would really like to see something like this implemented. I don't even think including a rotation for boosted rates would be difficult for them. Modifying rewards to include CL tokens would indeed require some time and brainwork.

Ahem...

Dear MPQ Devs,
We appreciate all of your hard work in providing us with a little enjoyment during our down time. We just want you to know that if you would like to overhaul the Classics Legends store by including a rotating list of boosted characters and maybe a few Classics Legends tokens, we most of us might be a wee bit appreciative.
P.S. Year end would be a great deadline, but no pressure.  

MrEd95

Akoni said:

Jacklag said:

I am a reasonably new player (just recently started moving towards 5* play) and even I know pulling from Classic Legends is a waste of CP. Even as I was collecting my 4*s I knew if I pulled there I was risking getting a lot of covers of characters too weak to make any sort of difference and many covers discarded as I wouldn't have the roster slots needed to keep them all.

Like @entrailbucket said, it depends on your goal. Pulling from CL worked well for me because I farm. If your goal is to farm, then collecting every character is important since each character gives you resources to collect the next character or resource. If your goal is to be as competitive as possible, then you should under no circumstances pull from CL. In addition, I believe that if you have no roster slots available, hoarding tokens and CP is the best thing to do since any covers for characters you do not have will be a waste. Now, I am in no way saying that you or any other player should play a certain way. Regardless of how a player chooses to play, though, there are optimized strategies for doing so.

Jacklag said:

What I did suggest once was that they replace the Classic Legends store with a Special Classic store that rotated every week or every month, so player could make their pools more precisely. That would feature a rotating selection of five 5* classic characters and maybe 20 4*s with the same 15%/85% odds we have on all Legendary stores today. 

MrEd95 said:

I haven’t read through the whole threat, so this may have already been suggested, but what if the classic store had the same boosted rotation as we now have for events.

Essentially, take for example this week’s boosted 5* list: daredevil, doc ock, gambit and spider man. Those 4 characters would have significantly boosted odds for pulling from classics for the week

it would work the same way as how we used to have increased odds for the latest 12 4* in the latest legends store.

would something like that be an option?

These are really good suggestions. The only issue I can see with boosting pull rates of 5* characters using current boosted 5* characters is that LL characters are often included in that list. For example, in PvE, Knull is boosted. Right now in PvP he is not. Of course, the specific character list can be altered for the CL store pull rate increase. What about 4*, though? Given the sheer number of 4* in the game, should their pull rates be boosted too?

Nonetheless, I would really like to see something like this implemented. I don't even think including a rotation for boosted rates would be difficult for them. Modifying rewards to include CL tokens would indeed require some time and brainwork.

Ahem...

Dear MPQ Devs,
We appreciate all of your hard work in providing us with a little enjoyment during our down time. We just want you to know that if you would like to overhaul the Classics Legends store by including a rotating list of boosted characters and maybe a few Classics Legends tokens, we most of us might be a wee bit appreciative.
P.S. Year end would be a great deadline, but no pressure.  

If I’m correct, Knull is boosted as the featured character for this PVE event, hence the purple crystal and the fact that he isn’t boosted in PvP.

For my suggestion, he wouldn’t have his pull rate boosted himself, but the weekly boosted characters with the orange crystals (Doc Ock, Spidey, etc.) would carry the boosted pull rate. Apologies if I didn’t explain myself well on that point

That being said, I don’t know if we will end up with 5*s in latest being added to the weekly boosted list towards the end of each rotation, so and pull rate boost may occasionally be messed if that is the case.

I rarely pull from classics myself, but would be a lot more likely to do so if there was a greater probability of my pulling the characters I actually want.

Although the argument could be made that what we are essentially asking for sounds quite similar to the featured stores we get with each 5* release anyway

entrailbucket

Latest and the feature stores are more expensive because they contain fewer characters, so what everyone's describing would cost 25cp.  I'm not sure anyone would pull for 25cp in a store that only had old bad characters, even if they happened to be boosted that week.

If there was some theoretical token where you could actually choose which characters were in the pool (let's just call it the Okoye Store, because, c'mon, that's what it would be), those tokens would cost even more, maybe 30 or 35cp.

Akoni

To be realistic, there's a slim chance any of this actually happens. I consider this, and many discussions in the forum, an exercise of possibilities. Devs have their own vision for what this game should look like. The more we discuss, the more ideas are put out there for them to look at. 

I've been making suggestions in Speculations and Concepts for characters for a little while, but Ronan's repeater tiles is the first glimpse that I've seen that devs might actually have glanced at some of my suggestions. I don't think our suggestions should carry many expectations or hope behind them, but we should treat them more like brainstorming sessions. One tiny idea might make it through. 

Maybe devs decide to actually add Classic Legends tokens or feature very small boosted pull rates. They could also decide to go ahead and increase the CP cost to 25. All of this is just devs trying to put out the best product they can while making as many players as happy as possible.

Bad

Akoni said:

I've been making suggestions in Speculations and Concepts for characters for a little while, but Ronan's repeater tiles is the first glimpse that I've seen that devs might actually have glanced at some of my suggestions. I don't think our suggestions should carry many expectations or hope behind them, but we should treat them more like brainstorming sessions. One tiny idea might make it through. 

Maybe devs decide to actually add Classic Legends tokens or feature very small boosted pull rates. They could also decide to go ahead and increase the CP cost to 25. All of this is just devs trying to put out the best product they can while making as many players as happy as possible.

The game actually changed and now there is one store having more appeal than before. We are aware of that and now devs(who use to read our discussions) are aware too.
In here we talked about more buffed 5*s https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/953014/#Comment_953014
. And it came.

Akoni

I remember that thread. That's not the only time that devs have made adjustments after they were mentioned in threads, either. It's pretty obvious that devs monitor parts of the forum like Bugs and Technical Issues. We know that site admins also push certain things through to devs from other areas like General Discussion. I just wasn't sure if anyone was really paying much attention to Speculations and Concepts. 

entrailbucket

Akoni said:

I remember that thread. That's not the only time that devs have made adjustments after they were mentioned in threads, either. It's pretty obvious that devs monitor parts of the forum like Bugs and Technical Issues. We know that site admins also push certain things through to devs from other areas like General Discussion. I just wasn't sure if anyone was really paying much attention to Speculations and Concepts. 

A few (loud, obnoxious) people (that everyone hates) have been pushing the devs to make this particular change for *years*.  Some of them were even right about the changes it would have on the metagame.

Great minds think alike, I guess!

Akoni

I certainly hope those changes weren't made because those players were loud and obnoxious. Hopefully it was because they were good ideas. I think updating CL is a good idea, but I don't want to be loud and obnoxious to make it happen.

entrailbucket

Akoni said:

I certainly hope those changes weren't made because those players were loud and obnoxious. Hopefully it was because they were good ideas. I think updating CL is a good idea, but I don't want to be loud and obnoxious to make it happen.

It was a joke, sorry.  I was referring to myself and a few other vets who've been dissatisfied with the direction of the metagame for a long time.

Bad

I used to post my ideas on mpq suggestions but I understood it was better to discuss then in general discussion.
I wanted to lay the groundwork for rebalances, however that idea from hound quickly met the glory, and was amplified in buffs.
Well, at least something changed indeed.