boosted 5* in pvp: how are you feeling about it after a few weeks

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,539 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    The controversy of how certain groups play PvP hasn't changed much - here is a thread from 2017 which discusses things brought up in this topic
    On thinking why 5* are getting these boosts, I am not sure if the aim is to just drive older player participation but maybe a definitive transisition to 5* play being the norm. The 5* have had a very slow integration into this game - they started out as pretty much a trophy tier when I started playing but they have been moving more and more towards taking the 4* tier role as the central point of the game. It would not surprise me if regular 5* PvP is on the cards at some point and possibly this boost is a test for that.


    Oh, it's not controversy -- I'm not saying those players are cheating, or that coordination should be banned.  What the 5000-point scorers are doing is stupid, boring, and not very fun, but it's allowed, and there's not really a way to stop it anyway.

    What I *am* saying is that character balance, buffs, nerfs, mechanic changes, boosts, or literally anything else will never affect the top of the leaderboard, because those guys don't play in the same way everyone else does.

    I guess controversy should have been in inverted commas.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    And D3 won't change it because shields are being purchased.  

    The pvp system is designed to make you shield. It's one reason why I gave the game a 1star review. It was originally 3stars, but every time they asked me to "look at my review" with each update, I lowered it by a star. If possible. it would be at -40 or so by now.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    Srheer0 said:
    And D3 won't change it because shields are being purchased.  

    The pvp system is designed to make you shield. It's one reason why I gave the game a 1star review. It was originally 3stars, but every time they asked me to "look at my review" with each update, I lowered it by a star. If possible. it would be at -40 or so by now.
    Actually shields were not part of the game when it launched, we had to beg for them to be added.  PvP without shields was a much different experience.

    They won't change the PvP system because they can't change it at this point.  It'd be a completely different game.

    If your review would be -40 stars, why on Earth are you still playing such a terrible game?  Go do something that's fun!
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Since I can earn those 1200 points, I cannot complain about pvp.
    However I gladly play another type of pvp mode, not involving skipping nor staring at the ranking board. On a mode like that it would be difficult to play tricks.
  • BeetleGeorge
    BeetleGeorge Posts: 76 Match Maker
    entrailbucket said:
    Actually shields were not part of the game when it launched, we had to beg for them to be added.  PvP without shields was a much different experience.

    They won't change the PvP system because they can't change it at this point.  It'd be a completely different game.
    In my opinion they did change PvP not so long ago when they introduced the "wins" concept. It's the reason why I as never-a-chance-to-be-top10 player play PvP. Normally I play to 28 wins, on some rare occasions to 40 and then I stop and don't care much if I end 74th or 104th.
  • Captain_Trips88
    Captain_Trips88 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    In the same boat as beetlegeorge, I gave up on pvp a long time ago but the change to wins brought me back and I'd coast up to the first cp reward and leave it there through boredom of slow matches with the same team of kitty and Polaris. 

    Boosted 5* has seen me take at least the penultimate progression reward, occasionally the final one. Admittedly its the same team of two boosted 5s each event but its using characters I haven't used for a long time and its quicker. 

    I guess those fighting for placement rewards won't ever be happy unless they get something that will suddenly cause variation at the top but can't complain as a progression reward, ftp player. Much more enjoyable with the boosts
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    To add to Tanglefoot’s assessment of the 3* meta, The top of the 4* is undercovered 5* as well. It isn’t as much of a problem with Polaris etc, because one can still place fairly well and take out the boosted monsters barring an unlucky cascade that wipes out your Polaris. But that is always going to be a problem in the Polaris meta.  Maybe it will be different in the Mantis/C4rnage meta, if that ever arrives. 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker



    entrailbucket said:
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.

    If all his characters are level 213 or below should it even matter? Shouldn't he only be seeing teams in that same range. Isn't that how MMR is supposed to work?
    It sounds like the problem is that he would see the occasional single cover 5* which is common for newer players. But now those same teams have boosted single cover 5s.
    I still contend that this will become more of an issue when we see characters like Kitty, Okoye, Apocalypse, BRB and iHulk boosted. In those weeks if you don't have those players then good luck....
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:



    entrailbucket said:
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.

    If all his characters are level 213 or below should it even matter? Shouldn't he only be seeing teams in that same range. Isn't that how MMR is supposed to work?
    It sounds like the problem is that he would see the occasional single cover 5* which is common for newer players. But now those same teams have boosted single cover 5s.
    I still contend that this will become more of an issue when we see characters like Kitty, Okoye, Apocalypse, BRB and iHulk boosted. In those weeks if you don't have those players then good luck....
    That is not at all how MMR works.  This is PvP, the game can only show you players that *actually exist*, it can't just make up fights for you. 

    If there are no level 213 teams to give you at around your point range, the game will give you other fights that are around your point range (fights that are worth 40ish points to you).  The alternative would be showing you lvl213 teams that are worth 5-10 points, and then players would also complain about that. 

    If no other players with a lvl 213 team are near your point level, unshielded, and in your end time, the game still has to give you something, unless you want it to invent teams that don't belong to players.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    entrailbucket said:
    TheRiddler said:



    entrailbucket said:
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.

    If all his characters are level 213 or below should it even matter? Shouldn't he only be seeing teams in that same range. Isn't that how MMR is supposed to work?
    It sounds like the problem is that he would see the occasional single cover 5* which is common for newer players. But now those same teams have boosted single cover 5s.
    I still contend that this will become more of an issue when we see characters like Kitty, Okoye, Apocalypse, BRB and iHulk boosted. In those weeks if you don't have those players then good luck....
    That is not at all how MMR works.  This is PvP, the game can only show you players that *actually exist*, it can't just make up fights for you. 

    If there are no level 213 teams to give you at around your point range, the game will give you other fights that are around your point range (fights that are worth 40ish points to you).  The alternative would be showing you lvl213 teams that are worth 5-10 points, and then players would also complain about that. 

    If no other players with a lvl 213 team are near your point level, unshielded, and in your end time, the game still has to give you something, unless you want it to invent teams that don't belong to players.

    Well if he is in the 50s range and not seeing teams on his level then that means the game is bleeding new players....
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,425 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    entrailbucket said:
    TheRiddler said:



    entrailbucket said:
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.

    If all his characters are level 213 or below should it even matter? Shouldn't he only be seeing teams in that same range. Isn't that how MMR is supposed to work?
    It sounds like the problem is that he would see the occasional single cover 5* which is common for newer players. But now those same teams have boosted single cover 5s.
    I still contend that this will become more of an issue when we see characters like Kitty, Okoye, Apocalypse, BRB and iHulk boosted. In those weeks if you don't have those players then good luck....
    That is not at all how MMR works.  This is PvP, the game can only show you players that *actually exist*, it can't just make up fights for you. 

    If there are no level 213 teams to give you at around your point range, the game will give you other fights that are around your point range (fights that are worth 40ish points to you).  The alternative would be showing you lvl213 teams that are worth 5-10 points, and then players would also complain about that. 

    If no other players with a lvl 213 team are near your point level, unshielded, and in your end time, the game still has to give you something, unless you want it to invent teams that don't belong to players.

    Well if he is in the 50s range and not seeing teams on his level then that means the game is bleeding new players....
    It's been a long time since I was a 3 star player, but from what I remember from back then 500 points was about the best I could do in pvp with 3 stars and once I got around there I would get killed by 4 stars (5 stars didn't exist yet).  So I don't know if this is a sign of bleeding new players or just the fact that 3 star players have never been able to climb very high in pvp, with the exception of the time when there were no 4 stars and 3 stars were the end game.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    entrailbucket said:
    TheRiddler said:



    entrailbucket said:
    Tanglefoot said:
    Boosted 5*s are awful.

    I have NO 5* covers. 0. So to struggle through team after team with boosted 5*s in PvP when my best characters are all below lvl 213 just totally blows.

    for comparison, in the previous gem season I was able to rank # 8 with my roster. It took some time and energy, but #8.

    in the most recent season, I really had to work hard to finish at #53. The boosted 5*s made the PvP that much harder. If I have to press the skip button 40 or even 60 times to get a competitive match, when I have 420 points and am ranked like 38th, that is a problem with the game. And that is common with the boosted 5*s.

    right now, if there is anything that would make me quit the game, it is how impossible PvP has become - it is pretty much impossible to get good rankings now, where I could consistently do so before boosted 5*s dominated the matches. It is 100% an attempt to make players invest in getting as many 5* covers as possible to try to be competitive. And it blows.
    I think the problem is that you're expecting to be competitive in PvP when you have NO 5* covers (and also no 4* covers?). Are you using some sort of softcapping roster strategy?  That might not be ideal in the current meta if you want to place in PvP.

    If all his characters are level 213 or below should it even matter? Shouldn't he only be seeing teams in that same range. Isn't that how MMR is supposed to work?
    It sounds like the problem is that he would see the occasional single cover 5* which is common for newer players. But now those same teams have boosted single cover 5s.
    I still contend that this will become more of an issue when we see characters like Kitty, Okoye, Apocalypse, BRB and iHulk boosted. In those weeks if you don't have those players then good luck....
    That is not at all how MMR works.  This is PvP, the game can only show you players that *actually exist*, it can't just make up fights for you. 

    If there are no level 213 teams to give you at around your point range, the game will give you other fights that are around your point range (fights that are worth 40ish points to you).  The alternative would be showing you lvl213 teams that are worth 5-10 points, and then players would also complain about that. 

    If no other players with a lvl 213 team are near your point level, unshielded, and in your end time, the game still has to give you something, unless you want it to invent teams that don't belong to players.

    Well if he is in the 50s range and not seeing teams on his level then that means the game is bleeding new players....
    Most lower tier players don't bother with PvP and never have, because it's complicated and punishing if you don't know what you're doing, and it's not explained anywhere.

    Also: maybe a lot of the lower tier players have 1-cover 5*s, which leads me back to the question of why this player doesn't.  If it's a result of some softcapping strategy that's being employed, maybe it's time to change that strategy to meet this brand new meta.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    So I guess my next question here would be that the boosted 5s don't effect your MMR?
    So in the Karolina PVP right now for example. My highest character even with boosts is Scarlett Witch at 453 and have another 6 champed 5s in that same range. And I'm currently sitting at 85th in SCL10. And I'm skipping through teams that have duos of boosted 5s in the 570-580 range. Am I out of opponents?
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    So I guess my next question here would be that the boosted 5s don't effect your MMR?
    So in the Karolina PVP right now for example. My highest character even with boosts is Scarlett Witch at 453 and have another 6 champed 5s in that same range. And I'm currently sitting at 85th in SCL10. And I'm skipping through teams that have duos of boosted 5s in the 570-580 range. Am I out of opponents?
    There's not enough information here to determine that.  SCL is completely irrelevant to this discussion, it does not affect matchmaking in any way.  Your current placement is also not relevant.

    How many points are these fights worth?  When does your PvP end?  What is your current score?  Are you shielded?
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    entrailbucket said:
    TheRiddler said:
    So I guess my next question here would be that the boosted 5s don't effect your MMR?
    So in the Karolina PVP right now for example. My highest character even with boosts is Scarlett Witch at 453 and have another 6 champed 5s in that same range. And I'm currently sitting at 85th in SCL10. And I'm skipping through teams that have duos of boosted 5s in the 570-580 range. Am I out of opponents?
    There's not enough information here to determine that.  SCL is completely irrelevant to this discussion, it does not affect matchmaking in any way.  Your current placement is also not relevant.

    How many points are these fights worth?  When does your PvP end?  What is your current score?  Are you shielded?

    15-40 points. A day left. 416. Unshielded.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    @entrailbucket - The reason he doesn't is because he is refraining from opening LT's. The reason he is doing that is because he is HP constrained as he finishes champing the 3* tier and moves into the 4* tier by rostering all the characters.
    Even if he spent a Stark, he'd only net 20 roster spots which isn't enough to roster the entire 4+5 tier (~160 characters) so he'd need to buy 8 Starks! Then he'd need to open ~300 classic legends (6000 cp) to net ~45 5* covers and hope every one of those was for a unique 5* character. That's an incredibly large ask for 3* players transitioning into the 4* tier.
    He wasn't having problems queuing teams prior to boosted 5*. The problem now is that no one is using dual 3* champ characters in the 160-200 range (or under covered 4* in the same range) when they can run 2 5* characters at 370 (a single cover 5* levels to 270 and boosts 100 levels) and just win via 5* match damage + huge health (for example my L255 GR is boosted to 368 right now with 30K health so no way 3* champs in the L200 range can compete with that) a lot faster/easier.
    The real problem is just adding +100 levels to 5* characters regardless of what level / number of covers they have. It's messing things up badly at lower tiers. They should change the 5* boost so that <L300 it's only a +25 level boost, 301-375 it's only a +50 boost, 375-450 it's only +75 boost and 450+ (ie champed) it's a +100 boost.
    KGB
    *The strategy being employed here is no longer ideal and nobody has bothered to reconsider it.* 

    They're trying to encourage players to not do what he's doing. 

    If players would have to open 20,000 CP and spend 80 starks to get a single one-cover 5*, why are all of these other low tier players running one-cover 5*?  They are opening as they go, and they have a few one-cover or two-cover 5* that make them unbeatable that week.

    The meta has shifted 180°.  You can't expect to do things the same way you did before.  Open as you go, collect 5* as you go, be successful if you have the 5* that week.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,235 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheRiddler said:
    entrailbucket said:
    TheRiddler said:
    So I guess my next question here would be that the boosted 5s don't effect your MMR?
    So in the Karolina PVP right now for example. My highest character even with boosts is Scarlett Witch at 453 and have another 6 champed 5s in that same range. And I'm currently sitting at 85th in SCL10. And I'm skipping through teams that have duos of boosted 5s in the 570-580 range. Am I out of opponents?
    There's not enough information here to determine that.  SCL is completely irrelevant to this discussion, it does not affect matchmaking in any way.  Your current placement is also not relevant.

    How many points are these fights worth?  When does your PvP end?  What is your current score?  Are you shielded?

    15-40 points. A day left. 416. Unshielded.
    You're in the 5th end time (S5 for PvP vets).  It's generally quite a low scoring slice.  At 400ish points I'd expect you to see more than 40-point matches, and certainly nothing as low as 15, so I would say that you probably are out of opponents. 

    The end times really are like different leagues, and they play completely differently.  Someone who's an expert on S5 would be able to say if this is normal or not.

    In general the best course of action when you're faced with this situation is to wait a few hours then try again.  In the future you may want to consider choosing a different time.  The first and fourth end times have much higher scores, and because of shields, it's really not necessary to be awake at the end.

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