entrailbucket said: PvP taking more time and using more health packs is the natural consequence of creating rock/paper/scissors counter-play. If the strongest fastest characters have counters that actually work on defense, the game slows down significantly and you can't get by with using one meta team for every fight.A lot of players ask for counters without understanding the implications of effective counters. A subset of players really do want the game to be grindy, slow, resource-intensive, and strategic, but most players prefer a meta where the strongest team is very fast, is very weak on defense, is light on health pack use, and has no effective defensive counter.
Bergen said: entrailbucket said: PvP taking more time and using more health packs is the natural consequence of creating rock/paper/scissors counter-play. If the strongest fastest characters have counters that actually work on defense, the game slows down significantly and you can't get by with using one meta team for every fight.A lot of players ask for counters without understanding the implications of effective counters. A subset of players really do want the game to be grindy, slow, resource-intensive, and strategic, but most players prefer a meta where the strongest team is very fast, is very weak on defense, is light on health pack use, and has no effective defensive counter. not necessarily, in 4* land you got counter meta teams even faster than the meta teams themselves (example : polaris-groot vs polaris-saber, polaris groot is fast but when you see them you can use polaris-saber for an even faster match -- unless you are really unlucky to eat a huge cascade). even if it takes more resources it is only natural for players to expect to be neutral changes; you get something in exchange of something... this is "mainly" negative for everyone except a selected few with already 550 5* all rosters. it will increase old player participation and will drive collect all mentality which can be good; provided negative effects can be countered; getting reasonable teams in this game needs at least 1.5-2 years, making them useless 1 update... btw i think 10 years player should not be much much better than 3 years one, all the advantages should be designed as diminishing on normal games; yes you can have an advantage but it should be diminishing, not exponential, that is a failure of this game...btw cascades does seem to happen more often for the last few weeks - may be it is just me or devs change that without notice, one cannot be sure ?!...)
HoundofShadow said: It depends on what "useful" means to each individual. Almost all 5* have uses or are useful. The problems of "usefulness" happen when players start to add in criteria after criteria; thus, rendering most of the 5* "useless". This is a mindset problem. If your mind is closed to only the fastest team(s), naturally, all other 5* will become useless. If your mind is open, you can always find ways to create teams that synergise well with one another.
entrailbucket said: Bergen said: entrailbucket said: PvP taking more time and using more health packs is the natural consequence of creating rock/paper/scissors counter-play. If the strongest fastest characters have counters that actually work on defense, the game slows down significantly and you can't get by with using one meta team for every fight.A lot of players ask for counters without understanding the implications of effective counters. A subset of players really do want the game to be grindy, slow, resource-intensive, and strategic, but most players prefer a meta where the strongest team is very fast, is very weak on defense, is light on health pack use, and has no effective defensive counter. not necessarily, in 4* land you got counter meta teams even faster than the meta teams themselves (example : polaris-groot vs polaris-saber, polaris groot is fast but when you see them you can use polaris-saber for an even faster match -- unless you are really unlucky to eat a huge cascade). even if it takes more resources it is only natural for players to expect to be neutral changes; you get something in exchange of something... this is "mainly" negative for everyone except a selected few with already 550 5* all rosters. it will increase old player participation and will drive collect all mentality which can be good; provided negative effects can be countered; getting reasonable teams in this game needs at least 1.5-2 years, making them useless 1 update... btw i think 10 years player should not be much much better than 3 years one, all the advantages should be designed as diminishing on normal games; yes you can have an advantage but it should be diminishing, not exponential, that is a failure of this game...btw cascades does seem to happen more often for the last few weeks - may be it is just me or devs change that without notice, one cannot be sure ?!...) That's not a counter. That's not rock/paper/scissors. A counter to Polaris would be a character that Polaris could not win against. So if you try to fight this guy using Polaris/Sabertooth or Polaris/Rocket or whatever, you lose, no matter what.
HoundofShadow said: I think a 10-15k healthpool difference isn't much to me. I think synergy matters. That's probably why some 5* players still play with Kitty/R4G, Kitty/Polaris or Polaris/BRB even though they have other champed 5*.
DAZ0273 said: entrailbucket said: Bergen said: entrailbucket said: PvP taking more time and using more health packs is the natural consequence of creating rock/paper/scissors counter-play. If the strongest fastest characters have counters that actually work on defense, the game slows down significantly and you can't get by with using one meta team for every fight.A lot of players ask for counters without understanding the implications of effective counters. A subset of players really do want the game to be grindy, slow, resource-intensive, and strategic, but most players prefer a meta where the strongest team is very fast, is very weak on defense, is light on health pack use, and has no effective defensive counter. not necessarily, in 4* land you got counter meta teams even faster than the meta teams themselves (example : polaris-groot vs polaris-saber, polaris groot is fast but when you see them you can use polaris-saber for an even faster match -- unless you are really unlucky to eat a huge cascade). even if it takes more resources it is only natural for players to expect to be neutral changes; you get something in exchange of something... this is "mainly" negative for everyone except a selected few with already 550 5* all rosters. it will increase old player participation and will drive collect all mentality which can be good; provided negative effects can be countered; getting reasonable teams in this game needs at least 1.5-2 years, making them useless 1 update... btw i think 10 years player should not be much much better than 3 years one, all the advantages should be designed as diminishing on normal games; yes you can have an advantage but it should be diminishing, not exponential, that is a failure of this game...btw cascades does seem to happen more often for the last few weeks - may be it is just me or devs change that without notice, one cannot be sure ?!...) That's not a counter. That's not rock/paper/scissors. A counter to Polaris would be a character that Polaris could not win against. So if you try to fight this guy using Polaris/Sabertooth or Polaris/Rocket or whatever, you lose, no matter what. Sabretooth complicates matters here more than Polaris because we have Morbius and * New 4 Character* to counter Polaris but neither of them do anything against Sabretooth. I guess maybe Elektra to give Sabre's strikes back to him to have Morb/New 4 punish?
AlexR said: DAZ0273 said: entrailbucket said: Bergen said: entrailbucket said: PvP taking more time and using more health packs is the natural consequence of creating rock/paper/scissors counter-play. If the strongest fastest characters have counters that actually work on defense, the game slows down significantly and you can't get by with using one meta team for every fight.A lot of players ask for counters without understanding the implications of effective counters. A subset of players really do want the game to be grindy, slow, resource-intensive, and strategic, but most players prefer a meta where the strongest team is very fast, is very weak on defense, is light on health pack use, and has no effective defensive counter. not necessarily, in 4* land you got counter meta teams even faster than the meta teams themselves (example : polaris-groot vs polaris-saber, polaris groot is fast but when you see them you can use polaris-saber for an even faster match -- unless you are really unlucky to eat a huge cascade). even if it takes more resources it is only natural for players to expect to be neutral changes; you get something in exchange of something... this is "mainly" negative for everyone except a selected few with already 550 5* all rosters. it will increase old player participation and will drive collect all mentality which can be good; provided negative effects can be countered; getting reasonable teams in this game needs at least 1.5-2 years, making them useless 1 update... btw i think 10 years player should not be much much better than 3 years one, all the advantages should be designed as diminishing on normal games; yes you can have an advantage but it should be diminishing, not exponential, that is a failure of this game...btw cascades does seem to happen more often for the last few weeks - may be it is just me or devs change that without notice, one cannot be sure ?!...) That's not a counter. That's not rock/paper/scissors. A counter to Polaris would be a character that Polaris could not win against. So if you try to fight this guy using Polaris/Sabertooth or Polaris/Rocket or whatever, you lose, no matter what. Sabretooth complicates matters here more than Polaris because we have Morbius and * New 4 Character* to counter Polaris but neither of them do anything against Sabretooth. I guess maybe Elektra to give Sabre's strikes back to him to have Morb/New 4 punish? Sabretooth doesn't need a counter. He himself is a counter character against special tiles/GRocket. The way to counter Sabretooth is to... just not use strike tiles yourself. There you go, you countered Sabretooth. If you don't have any strike tiles yourself, then the only way for Sabretooth to fire his passive is to make some himself for you with his black, which is fairly easy to just AP deny him from. And even if he manages to make a handful, he then would also need to match one, which isn't guaranteed. And even if he matches one, if he just punishes you for 1 strike tile, it's not too bad. He only hurts a lot when he can punish more strike tiles (=GRocket, Polaris with strike tiles). So no, Elektra's purple would be a terrible choice, since she makes strike tiles, which you don't want to have in a Sabretooth fight. You don't need to punish him, just don't bring the specific thing he punishes. Granted, he can still do a good bit of damage with his red. But that's pretty much it.