**** Throg (Puddlegulp) ****

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Comments

  • LavaManLeeLavaManLee Posts: 686 Critical Contributor
    A locked tile can severely limit the number of matches you, as a player, can make.  You then spend more time scanning trying to find an actual match.  There is both the visual aspect of it that takes time (you see a match and your brain thinks you can make it but you can't) and the actual aspect of then having to go to the next match.  Plus, you have to process "what if" in your head, to get the physics of what will happen if you do make a match around it.  The tiles won't behave in the same way and so you have to process it differently.

    When there are no locked tiles, my brain completely understands quickly what every move would do to the tiles around it.  When there are locked tiles, the brain takes more time to get the physics of what happens around it.

    The other thing that takes time is building AP.  If I am reliant on specific colors, a locked tile (in general) will make it longer for me to gather the colors I need.  The more locked tiles, the harder to get.

    Does this make locked tiles bad?  Not for some.  But I find characters that have them as one of their powers not as effective as others.  IW in 4* and QS in 3* are some examples.
  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    Throg Zip Zap Zop 
    vs
    BRB Clash of the Worthy

    shouldnt Throg keep shooting until BRB is dead? Clash of the Worthy makes a shield each time BRB is damaged. ZZZ continues firing (at no cost) until there’s no enemy tiles left. 

    Same vs Kitty’s Practiced Offense. 

    ??


  • BorstockBorstock Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2020
    Only if a special is converted.
  • PiMacleodPiMacleod Posts: 1,396 Chairperson of the Boards
    A locked tile can severely limit the number of matches you, as a player, can make.  You then spend more time scanning trying to find an actual match.  There is both the visual aspect of it that takes time (you see a match and your brain thinks you can make it but you can't) and the actual aspect of then having to go to the next match.  Plus, you have to process "what if" in your head, to get the physics of what will happen if you do make a match around it.  The tiles won't behave in the same way and so you have to process it differently.

    When there are no locked tiles, my brain completely understands quickly what every move would do to the tiles around it.  When there are locked tiles, the brain takes more time to get the physics of what happens around it.

    The other thing that takes time is building AP.  If I am reliant on specific colors, a locked tile (in general) will make it longer for me to gather the colors I need.  The more locked tiles, the harder to get.

    Does this make locked tiles bad?  Not for some.  But I find characters that have them as one of their powers not as effective as others.  IW in 4* and QS in 3* are some examples.
    well, that's a shame.  I don't find it that hard at all.  The match you're looking at is either matchable or not -- same as other instances on the board.  As for the falling physics, that i get -- but then its nearly the same as a fortified tile (not destroying the tile itself, and thus that tile never falls).

    as for the character examples, I can understand... because both aren't worth it!  lmao -- I mean... IW?!  Yeah.  she's pretty darn slow nowadays.  And Quicksilver?  Again, his best feature is his black tile-swap ability... his locking tiles have nothing to do with his usability.  In fact, if there's a problem with it, it's surely that its random AND you need FOUR of them to use his "passive".

    Design a character that uses it effectively, and I'm sure people would sing different songs.  After all, most people hated repeaters... and then Apoc comes along, gives you four of them, and people love him.  That's all it takes -- something to make it worthwhile.
  • PiMacleodPiMacleod Posts: 1,396 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not to double post... but... 

    No mention of him being Limited!  That's a good thing.
  • Waddles_PinesWaddles_Pines Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    Now for Niels, Ms. Lion, Zabu to appear...
  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    Borstock said:
    Only if a special is converted.
    Yeah. So there’s specials out and Throg does ZZZ, does damage, converts, and the CoW goes off and makes another shield. Shouldn’t ZZZ go again?
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 6,452 Chairperson of the Boards
    This character will have such great synergy with Negasonic, and probably 5torm. I love charge tiles...
  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 597 Critical Contributor

    Zip Zap Zop vs Clash of the Worthy.

    Let's say Bill has used CotW and there are friendly Protects. Throg uses ZZZ and converts a Protect. Bill creates another Protect due to the damage taken. Repeat ad infinitum until Throg no longer converts any SAP tiles on Bill's side. In the extreme case scenario, ZZZ will fire until all non-TU tiles are Charged tiles, so Bill's CotW will no longer proc. It's just that the Countdown tile will remain there doing nothing.
    That’s what I’m wondering. Same thing vs Kitty’s Practiced Offense. 

    - opposing shields on the field
    - Throg uses ZZZ
    - shields convert and does damage
    - Kitty’s CD procs

    shouldn’t ZZZ activate again and again until the field is full of charged tiles/dead Kitty?
  • hodayathinkhodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
    It doesn't look like the power goes after special tiles first, in which case it's entirely possible that it misses the new tiles that BRB/Kitty would create.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 4,977 Chairperson of the Boards
    His Zip Zap Zop(Z3) seems like an AoE. If Kitty and BRB have their CDs out, that's 6 enemy special tiles per turn. That's almost an infinite AoE if and only you can convert at least one of their special tiles per Z3 and it triggers their CDs every AoE. The operation must be this:

    Z3 and convert
    Triggers their CDs
    Z3 AMD convert
    Triggers their CDs 
    ... and so on, instead of

    Z3 and convert
    Z3 and convert
    Z3 and convert
    Triggers their CDs

  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 891 Critical Contributor
    Yup. We'll have to see the order of operations.

    If it's

    Z3 and convert
    Triggers their CDs
    Z3 AMD convert
    Triggers their CDs

    Then repeat ad infinitum.

    If it's

    Z3 and convert
    Z3 and convert
    Z3 and convert
    Triggers their CDs

    then it's the same as how 5* Panther's Red damage negation works on multi-hits such as Poccy's Red. He reduces damage for all of the hits, and then becomes stunned.

    Hope you're alright that I copypasta'd your text @HoundofShadow
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 4,977 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's all right. We have to wait till 2021 to know.  :D
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,216 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2020
    Well, the 4* tier is bloated and, like any other new release, this one is extraneous and unnecessary.  But it's throg!  So my actual complaint this time is that he should clearly have been our first limited 5*!
    Overall, he seems interesting, but unlikely to be a meta character.  his damage resistance passive is nice and will be annoying when he shows up in a challenge nodr, but seems like it can easily be avoided via stun.  otherwise he doesn't have much to get excited about.  I am sure there will be a fun way to turn Z3 into an infinity engine, but those sorts of rube Goldberg mpq devices rarely have an impact on the meta; they are welcome variety.
  • Michael1957Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    At least we will never see Storm3 Hailstorm again in PvE , the devs have to remove her from X-nodes 
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 5,610 Chairperson of the Boards
    As ZZZ is random it reminds me a bit of Wiccan's chain lightning which can be hit and miss. Throg will definitely punish Polaris style tile spamming though and will make for some interesting battles in the Kitty dominated SHIELD SIM.
  • Michael1957Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    As ZZZ is random it reminds me a bit of Wiccan's chain lightning which can be hit and miss. Throg will definitely punish Polaris style tile spamming though and will make for some interesting battles in the Kitty dominated SHIELD SIM.
    Regrettably on defense any 4* that is considered a threat is usually the first to be killed in 2 to 3 moves . If I’m using Polaris I can wait until turn 3 or 4 to start spamming tiles 
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 5,610 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    As ZZZ is random it reminds me a bit of Wiccan's chain lightning which can be hit and miss. Throg will definitely punish Polaris style tile spamming though and will make for some interesting battles in the Kitty dominated SHIELD SIM.
    Regrettably on defense any 4* that is considered a threat is usually the first to be killed in 2 to 3 moves . If I’m using Polaris I can wait until turn 3 or 4 to start spamming tiles 
    Yeah unless she gets triggered by a random cascade it should be controllable from the player side. I think until we see it in action and see how effectively it operates the jury stays out. 
  • BlixTheFrogBlixTheFrog Posts: 106 Tile Toppler
    Throg could be a killer with Storm and/or Black Bolt.
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