Character Updates - September 2020

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Comments

  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    I would like to know why the approach to nerfs always seems to be a rework instead of nerfing the existing kit.  If Bishop's passive blue generation was knocked down to 2 ap, or the damage level to trigger was upped by 2k, it would have done the job, with less effort, as well as not wasting the original development work.
    When buffing, that seems to be approach in many cases, including this set of buffs where ap cost is nudged down, damage output increased, etc.  Why take a different approach when nerfing?
  • Nibby
    Nibby Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
  • Jacklag
    Jacklag Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    Nibby said:
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
    To be fair, if they had released a character that counters Bishop and Worthy Captain, your time leveling those characters would have been wasted too. And you wouldn't be getting a sellback option.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,620 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2020
    Jacklag said:
    Nibby said:
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
    To be fair, if they had released a character that counters Bishop and Worthy Captain, your time leveling those characters would have been wasted too. And you wouldn't be getting a sellback option.
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
  • PorkBelly
    PorkBelly Posts: 522 Critical Contributor
    Good changes all around.  Thank you.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 8,075 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Jacklag said:
    Nibby said:
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
    To be fair, if they had released a character that counters Bishop and Worthy Captain, your time leveling those characters would have been wasted too. And you wouldn't be getting a sellback option.
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    I would contest that de-fanging Bishop makes Apocalypse any less good. He also sidesteps the BRB/Kitty meta and is generally quite strong.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,447 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Jacklag said:
    Nibby said:
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
    To be fair, if they had released a character that counters Bishop and Worthy Captain, your time leveling those characters would have been wasted too. And you wouldn't be getting a sellback option.
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    I would contest that de-fanging Bishop makes Apocalypse any less good. He also sidesteps the BRB/Kitty meta and is generally quite strong.
    Yeah this. Just because he doesn't counter Bishop anymore doesn't make him any less powerful.
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 676 Critical Contributor
    I like those changes to TA Hulk. The passive looks fun now.

    I am fine with the Bish and Worthy nerfs -- those passives were too good. Shame about Bishop's blue active, though. That move stinks now.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 561 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    Apocolypse is one of my most used characters in both pve and pvp and bishop is the least of the reason that I use him.  Being able to hit bishop teams in pvp a bit more easily was just the cherry on top, but I'll gladly just not have to deal with bishop at all.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,620 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2020
    Vhailorx said:
    Jacklag said:
    Nibby said:
    Why did they ask us, whether we wanted nerfs or buffs, if they don't listen anyway. A look at the poll shows that most users wanted buffs...What we got is a few minor buffs that no one cares about and Bishop and Worthy Captain destroyed. I would really have preferred a new character that counters Bishop /Worthy, instead of taking away powers. All the time we spent into leveling up these characters are now wasted. 
    To be fair, if they had released a character that counters Bishop and Worthy Captain, your time leveling those characters would have been wasted too. And you wouldn't be getting a sellback option.
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    I would contest that de-fanging Bishop makes Apocalypse any less good. He also sidesteps the BRB/Kitty meta and is generally quite strong.

    It doesn't make him any worse.  It makes him less useful.  That's why I said 'indirect nerf'.  When the health shift happened, patch and daken weren't any worse on their own, but they were less useful because everyone else had more health and they were comparative more fragile.  Apoc is still the same, but on of his best uses was a 'fire-and-forget' PVP team that could be used for long climbs against, even against stunner bro defensive teams, but wasn't total **** on defense (a la thorkoye).  That particular skill is no longer very valuable.  ergo Apoc's overall utility is lower (not by any means low, just a little bit lower).  Fortunately, stuns are still very much part of the PVP meta (via ice or polaris or whoever is the next good 5* stunner), and apoc is the second best damage booster in the game after okoye, so he still has plenty of useful skills. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 5,620 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    Apocolypse is one of my most used characters in both pve and pvp and bishop is the least of the reason that I use him.  Being able to hit bishop teams in pvp a bit more easily was just the cherry on top, but I'll gladly just not have to deal with bishop at all.

    But using your analogy, a cake that formerly had a cherry is now bare.  That's a net loss, even if it is a small one and you still want to eat the cake.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 8,075 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2020
    Nah, this is more like if the really obnoxious party guest who happened to be allergic to cherries left the party. The cake is still delicious but you no longer have to worry about that one person stealing your slice. I generally run him with Thor anyway, so unless the required character happened to have the mutant tag, the way he was helping me vs Bishop is by being able to absorb a hit from overclocked without too much issue and then pound him flat for 7 red ap that was pretty easy to come by via Thor.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 561 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2020
    Vhailorx said:
    Vhailorx said:
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    Apocolypse is one of my most used characters in both pve and pvp and bishop is the least of the reason that I use him.  Being able to hit bishop teams in pvp a bit more easily was just the cherry on top, but I'll gladly just not have to deal with bishop at all.

    But using your analogy, a cake that formerly had a cherry is now bare.  That's a net loss, even if it is a small one and you still want to eat the cake.
    But without bishop, there's no need for the cherry.  I don't know how to add anymore to the analogy.... stun immunity is still good without bishop being around, it's just not so much of a necessity.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,447 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Vhailorx said:
    You know that people chased apoc for exactly this reason, right? At least apoc will retain some value in a post bishop world, but this is also a small indirect nerf for him too.
    Apocolypse is one of my most used characters in both pve and pvp and bishop is the least of the reason that I use him.  Being able to hit bishop teams in pvp a bit more easily was just the cherry on top, but I'll gladly just not have to deal with bishop at all.

    But using your analogy, a cake that formerly had a cherry is now bare.  That's a net loss, even if it is a small one and you still want to eat the cake.
    But without bishop, there's no need for the cherry.  I don't know how to add anymore to the analogy.... stun immunity is still good without bishop being around, it's just not so much of a necessity.
    I ran into quite a few Iceman teams today so I definitely still need it lol.

    I kind of overlooked Iceman when he came out but he's actually really good. I dont know why more people don't run him.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 8,075 Chairperson of the Boards
    regarding Iceman - ThorKoye/Iceman is a highly reliable team on challenge nodes in PVE. Characters that do a bunch of micro-hits and don't come with a big nuke, rampant AP generation, or some obvious thing like stun immunity tend to get bypassed. I think he's pretty good on loads of teams myself, but i rarely run him in PVP
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also, Polaris stuns... that immunity is definitely going to retain value.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 7,142 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just reread Bishop's reworked Overclocked ability. Based on the wordings, it seems like I can put out multiple Overclocked CDs on the same turn and then multiply the amount of damage. If I have 3 CDs out on the same turn and Bishop took a total 5k damage, his total Overclocked damage would be 3*5000*3.25= 48,750 damage.

    The logic behind this thinking is because it doesn't seem to have the limitation that BRB's Clash of the Worthy has.