SCL10 Mission Changes

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  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    Phumade said:
    BeetleGeorge said:
    I find this whole discussion strange in a way. Recently I have the feeling there are more and more events where I loose fights at the 5* node even on 9. So 10 would mean that I can be sure not to get max. points and loose so many health packs in trying that I can not play pvp at all - until a few weeks ago I needed health packs mainly in pvp.
    A few minutes faster at the easy nodes are not changing anything for me in such a situation.

    What I think would make more sense would be to make 10 like 9 but just with higher levels to fight. And save the crazy combinations for a new event similar to DDQ but with some really challenging nodes.
    The 5* node can be much tougher than the challenge node.  Most players have a winfinite roster than can hit 650 reliably.   But once you limit teams to a required 5*,  you become much more limited in viable team choices.  Depending on the strengths , weakened and health the 5* node can be straightforward or impossible to beat.
    I feel that it's the opposite for me.   A 605 level isn't much worse than a 550 level.   It's a glorified 5 star pvp node.   What's worse is the 650 levels because the 5 star charges are doing like 10 to 20k match damage with passive damage up to 25k PER TURN.  Doesn't matter what you use,  its brutal.   On top of that,  the enemy team has 650 to 800k cumulative health pool.  That's just crazy when you have only 350k.  
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2020
    grunth13 said:
    Phumade said:
    BeetleGeorge said:
    I find this whole discussion strange in a way. Recently I have the feeling there are more and more events where I loose fights at the 5* node even on 9. So 10 would mean that I can be sure not to get max. points and loose so many health packs in trying that I can not play pvp at all - until a few weeks ago I needed health packs mainly in pvp.
    A few minutes faster at the easy nodes are not changing anything for me in such a situation.

    What I think would make more sense would be to make 10 like 9 but just with higher levels to fight. And save the crazy combinations for a new event similar to DDQ but with some really challenging nodes.
    The 5* node can be much tougher than the challenge node.  Most players have a winfinite roster than can hit 650 reliably.   But once you limit teams to a required 5*,  you become much more limited in viable team choices.  Depending on the strengths , weakened and health the 5* node can be straightforward or impossible to beat.
    I feel that it's the opposite for me.   A 605 level isn't much worse than a 550 level.   It's a glorified 5 star pvp node.   What's worse is the 650 levels because the 5 star charges are doing like 10 to 20k match damage with passive damage up to 25k PER TURN.  Doesn't matter what you use,  its brutal.   On top of that,  the enemy team has 650 to 800k cumulative health pool.  That's just crazy when you have only 350k.  
    No one is denying that.  Phumade is just arguing that getting a third team slot can often make up for those challenges by permitting many more build possibilities. (I agree with phumade, fwiw. It may be anrtifact of how high level your classic 5*s are.)
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards
    I remember when pepper was the required 5*.  Even my best meta combo brb kitty, ihulkokoye, at 460-480 were real underdogs to 3x 605 combos.  Once you have to hit up over 3x 120 levels, the matches become marginal at best and that’s with boosts, TU , supports etc

    but most can stunlock using worthy cap/ spidy2099/ 5* ice variations.   Specifically I run a 460/370/350 Hawkeye/coulson/worthy combo and reliably stunlock a 650 team in 3 turns.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phumade said:
    I remember when pepper was the required 5*.  Even my best meta combo brb kitty, ihulkokoye, at 460-480 were real underdogs to 3x 605 combos.  Once you have to hit up over 3x 120 levels, the matches become marginal at best and that’s with boosts, TU , supports etc

    but most can stunlock using worthy cap/ spidy2099/ 5* ice variations.   Specifically I run a 460/370/350 Hawkeye/coulson/worthy combo and reliably stunlock a 650 team in 3 turns.
    That team is excellent right up until the enemy ai can overwhelm worthy on the first turn with pure damage (gritty, or carnage or royal family etc).  this is less of an issue if you have a 350+ worthy, but even the  he can struggle to keep pace with 650s.
    When the ai damage output does overwhelm worthy, I have to swap out worthy for gamora.  A bit less reliable to get started, but a much easier stunlock engine once you get 6 blue ap.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Phumade said:
    I remember when pepper was the required 5*.  Even my best meta combo brb kitty, ihulkokoye, at 460-480 were real underdogs to 3x 605 combos.  Once you have to hit up over 3x 120 levels, the matches become marginal at best and that’s with boosts, TU , supports etc

    but most can stunlock using worthy cap/ spidy2099/ 5* ice variations.   Specifically I run a 460/370/350 Hawkeye/coulson/worthy combo and reliably stunlock a 650 team in 3 turns.
    his is less of an issue if you have a 350+ worthy, but even the  he can struggle to keep pace with 650s.

    I can usually get 2 matches out of him against 3x650, but yes he can be one shot on a match 5 or any kind of decent AI cascade.  I definitely shard targeted him specifically as backup for tough challenge nodes,  or getting past wall to wall ihulk,brb, apoc, kitty variations in shield simulator
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,794 Chairperson of the Boards
    Switching gears, but staying on the topic of SCL 10 PvEs...

    People generally talk about (on these forums) how level 10 PvEs aren't always worth the time/grind.  Wellllllllll....

    If you've read any of my posts regarding my playstyle in the post (hint:  I've done it too much, IMO), you know that I haven't changed my style for anything.  I stick with the highest SCL, and play to progression -- that's it.

    EVERYONE HERE knows that Simulator is the hardest.  They have the troll-iest nodes, and no goons on any "hard" or higher node.  Because of this, many people on these forums often declare that they "drop down" for Simulator... stating that the difficulty isn't worth their time.

    When I play a PvE to progression, I'm always in top 200 or higher.  I play in the first "slice", but not right away in the morning.  Usually, I'll join in around 10 AM, or even later sometimes.  And I run it casually throughout the day, just doing hits (while working)... I'm doing it as fast as I can, but without trying to stress myself.

    So, I'm intrigued to report that for Simulator (where I hit full progression again), I'm in 273rd place.  Not top 200... lower.  This isn't normal.  It doesn't happen EVER in my recollection.  Don't read too deeply on this -- I'm not upset at all.  Once again, I do not care about placement. 

    HOWEVER -- if SOOOOOO many people drop down to lower SCLs due to Simulator's difficulty, it sure is not reflected here.  If anything, it tells me that MORE people got in on the grind this time.  Someone might argue that the 5* shards were worth it this time -- but I'd find that very hard to believe.  It was 5* Hawkeye for placement.  Sure, he's nice for completing those challenge nodes, and the countdown-powered meta team, but he's no Okoye, Kitty, BRB, etc, etc... you get my point.

    I'm not looking for an answer -- I'm just stating my results here.  I don't think people are dropping down in mass quantities like these forums suggest.  In fact, perhaps more people are taking up the challenge... and maybe more rosters are rising (like my own) due to shards and this new reward system.  Just speculation.
  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    Did you play for prog woth 3x or 4x?

    Because I am very sure many players keep playing 4x for prog, because the score change hasn‘t been formally announced in-game. That could explain why you‘re a lot lower...?
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,848 Chairperson of the Boards
    supergarv said:
    Did you play for prog woth 3x or 4x?

    Because I am very sure many players keep playing 4x for prog, because the score change hasn‘t been formally announced in-game. That could explain why you‘re a lot lower...?
    Even if you can hit progression with 3x on everything (CN included), 4x is just one more hit and you get all the node rewards.

    Also, if you are a spender, you only get bonus rewards from PVE so there is an incentive to get as many triggers for that as possible for many players.  Hence going for 4X at minimum; I sort of think that 4X is the same or maybe less time than 6x in SCL9 (other than cheesing horrible CNs and 5Es, which takes forever).

    I ended up placing better in this one (34th) while hitting approx the same number of nodes as some earlier PVEs.  Hard to say what people are doing.  Some earlier ones I wasn't even T50.

    It could be that more (or at least a few more) people are joining into PVE thanks to the changes.  It could be that they play a little harder than PiMacLeod, or more optimally.  I could definitely see players trying to secure HE shards (although if that's your goal, you get the same at 101 as you do at 300th).  He remains a crucial tool for cheesing those aforementioned CNs and it's very very hard to get any specific Classic at this point.
  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    (My comment was just made to say that if many people are used to doing 4x, those will get higher placement than those dropping down to 3x)
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,794 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2020
    I played the same way that I did the last umpteen amount of PvEs...

    enough to get full progression.  To answer your question directly -- I did 3 clears.  which is the same as I did for the last PvE, getting top 200, and the one before, getting top 200, and before that... and repeat.

    Sure, they could've done just ONE more clear.  And they could've done that on the previous PvE too.... but the results there aren't nearly as different as this one.  I got close to top 100 on the first "new SCL 10", with these 3 hit changes, because I did do a few extra clears, since I didn't know what the progression bar was gonna be set at.  But once I saw that I kinda "overdid it", I just did 3 hits of each node.  And back to top 200 I went.

    EDIT:  I guess it's just crazy to ME, that we see people all the time stating A) Simulator is the hardest, and B ) "I'm dropping down to SCL9/lower, and C ) I'm just gonna skip Simulator this time...  yet THIS is the PvE where I see the most people in SCL 10 hitting above me.  
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,848 Chairperson of the Boards
    PiMacleod said:
    I played the same way that I did the last umpteen amount of PvEs...

    enough to get full progression.  To answer your question directly -- I did 3 clears.  which is the same as I did for the last PvE, getting top 200, and the one before, getting top 200, and before that... and repeat.

    Sure, they could've done just ONE more clear.  And they could've done that on the previous PvE too.... but the results there aren't nearly as different as this one.  I got close to top 100 on the first "new SCL 10", with these 3 hit changes, because I did do a few extra clears, since I didn't know what the progression bar was gonna be set at.  But once I saw that I kinda "overdid it", I just did 3 hits of each node.  And back to top 200 I went.

    EDIT:  I guess it's just crazy to ME, that we see people all the time stating A) Simulator is the hardest, and B ) "I'm dropping down to SCL9/lower, and C ) I'm just gonna skip Simulator this time...  yet THIS is the PvE where I see the most people in SCL 10 hitting above me.  
    I mean it's the age-old thing, right?

    The complainers complain and maybe take action.....the non-complainers often just do what they were gonna do anyway.  I went to 10 because I was curious and figured what was the worst that could happen?  I'd still get more CP and what have you and my HE is close to a full cover now from shards (after the next event).

    Simulator will be hard, as you stated.  Anyone who is in SCL10 knows that already and has known that for years.  Play or not, it's up to you....this run was easier than the last one overall for me.  Sub 3 5E wasn't fun though.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    I always play 10. I do get frustrated, not as much with Sim as other events and tell myself I’ll drop down...then I get a look at the rewards, and that’s that.

    Strangely enough I played the same as always and placed higher at 118 I think. I mostly attributed my different placement to using IHulk/Okoye more and having the 5e champed (this happens roughly half the time). 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2020
    PiMacleod said:
    Switching gears, but staying on the topic of SCL 10 PvEs...

    People generally talk about (on these forums) how level 10 PvEs aren't always worth the time/grind.  Wellllllllll....

    If you've read any of my posts regarding my playstyle in the post (hint:  I've done it too much, IMO), you know that I haven't changed my style for anything.  I stick with the highest SCL, and play to progression -- that's it.

    EVERYONE HERE knows that Simulator is the hardest.  They have the troll-iest nodes, and no goons on any "hard" or higher node.  Because of this, many people on these forums often declare that they "drop down" for Simulator... stating that the difficulty isn't worth their time.

    When I play a PvE to progression, I'm always in top 200 or higher.  I play in the first "slice", but not right away in the morning.  Usually, I'll join in around 10 AM, or even later sometimes.  And I run it casually throughout the day, just doing hits (while working)... I'm doing it as fast as I can, but without trying to stress myself.

    So, I'm intrigued to report that for Simulator (where I hit full progression again), I'm in 273rd place.  Not top 200... lower.  This isn't normal.  It doesn't happen EVER in my recollection.  Don't read too deeply on this -- I'm not upset at all.  Once again, I do not care about placement. 

    HOWEVER -- if SOOOOOO many people drop down to lower SCLs due to Simulator's difficulty, it sure is not reflected here.  If anything, it tells me that MORE people got in on the grind this time.  Someone might argue that the 5* shards were worth it this time -- but I'd find that very hard to believe.  It was 5* Hawkeye for placement.  Sure, he's nice for completing those challenge nodes, and the countdown-powered meta team, but he's no Okoye, Kitty, BRB, etc, etc... you get my point.

    I'm not looking for an answer -- I'm just stating my results here.  I don't think people are dropping down in mass quantities like these forums suggest.  In fact, perhaps more people are taking up the challenge... and maybe more rosters are rising (like my own) due to shards and this new reward system.  Just speculation.
    I think it's hard to make I inferences about player populations right now because demi just made a big scoring change to cl10.  I would like to give it a few weeks/months to sort out before making assumptions about "normal" player distributions.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,848 Chairperson of the Boards
    *headsmack*  yeah, of course people are trying harder for more points in 10 now than they did a few weeks ago.....

    Even if you aren't placing all that high in 10 you are outscoring people in 9 with a little effort and securing yourself that T10 alliance slot.  (Many players are, anyway.)
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    bluewolf said:
    *headsmack*  yeah, of course people are trying harder for more points in 10 now than they did a few weeks ago.....

    Even if you aren't placing all that high in 10 you are outscoring people in 9 with a little effort and securing yourself that T10 alliance slot.  (Many players are, anyway.)
    And that’s how it should be. The alliances with the most people playing at the highest level should get the best  rewards. Sandbagging should not be rewarded. 
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    I dont think people are playing less now. And those last pve were hardcore. At the very least the same people playing, but I think it could be a bit more.
    As those posts of people asking help on CN states. 
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,794 Chairperson of the Boards
    ha.. fair enough.  I DO wanna champ him one day, and I know his value (when combined with Worthy, and for a Challenge Node clearer), but ... it just seems to be less-overwhelming when I'm in a sea of iHulkoyes, BRBitties, and anything with Bishop involved.  ;)
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    I found him really interesting on his 5E today vs goblin and goons. I took Ice5 and apocalypse.  But I only have HE at 2 covers, so its an endless road ahead.

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