Revised Event: Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D.

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  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Justonescarf said:
    How are people even beating Day 3: A Test of Skill?!

    My OML is 300. I'm on my 6th attempt and have tried Okoye, Valykrie, but nothing has worked.

    I'm getting one shot by every power. And usually by round 4-5. Mordo will usually kill me.


    Valkyrie (baby champed) has been the most reliable for me.   All you really need to win is 3-5 rounds of multiple repeaters proc'ing on some safe strike tiles. that will end the match real fast.  So plan your early moves accordingly:

    *Chase the bounty target to generate yellow ap,

    *Wait until Valk has flooded all the yellow tiles with strikes, then multicast yellow.  You can also cast it early and just live with a starlord CD if it won't let the enemy cast against you 

    * Deny ap!!!! See what color(s) the ai is chasing and deny them, that will prompt the ai to spread their ap selection around multiple colors, delaying their casts.  When there isn't an obvious best move for you, match something at the top of the board to minimize the chance that the ai gets a favorable boardshake.

    It does take a little board luck, so be prepared to retreat fast and try again later if the ai gets an early cascade, but this strategy will work. 


  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    JHawkInc said:
    *snip* but a way to acquire an Old Man Logan cover might have helped a lot of people as well (even if it's the same 250CP purchase option we see when he's Essential). Could be a neat place for a broader bundle, covering each required character (at least shards, if not a full cover), and could be a stepping stone for newer players towards acquiring 4's and 5's.

    I like the idea of adding another h4h cover for classic 5*s.  1 extra 250cp cover every 4 weeks (or even every 2 weeks if they they run welcome to shield for 5*s) would be a welcome increase the availability of classic 5*s that would mitigate classic dilution without (I think) putting too many new covers into the wild.  That would amount to 12-25 new 5* cover purchases every year, so less than 1 extra cover per classic per year. 
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    JHawkInc said:
    *snip* but a way to acquire an Old Man Logan cover might have helped a lot of people as well (even if it's the same 250CP purchase option we see when he's Essential). Could be a neat place for a broader bundle, covering each required character (at least shards, if not a full cover), and could be a stepping stone for newer players towards acquiring 4's and 5's.

    I like the idea of adding another h4h cover for classic 5*s.  1 extra 250cp cover every 4 weeks (or even every 2 weeks if they they run welcome to shield for 5*s) would be a welcome increase the availability of classic 5*s that would mitigate classic dilution without (I think) putting too many new covers into the wild.  That would amount to 12-25 new 5* cover purchases every year, so less than 1 extra cover per classic per year. 
    I've always thought the Classic 5's should be offered two at a time. Offset the rotation by half, so basically each one would appear when they are Essential, and again halfway between each Essential appearance. And they'd appear in the same order (so we just had Peter Parker, now Green Goblin, so when Peter shows up in H4H when he's not Essential, we'd know Goblin is next) Silver Surfer was last Essential in August, and won't be Essential again until July, and the gap gets larger each cycle. Doing a second 5 offset would have let Surfer show up around January (both last January, and roughly next January as well). And if it rotates on the same schedule as Classic 5's it's one fewer thing for the Devs to have to plan and figure out.

    Regardless, SOME sort of extra sorta-predictable H4H option would be nice.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Overall as a 5* player with a well-developed roster; I liked the event a lot.  I felt the 5E nodes were challenging but not impossible for a person with a baby champ roster.  I think it’s a better representation of what the OG Shield event claimed to be, which was an event that rewarded those with deep/developed rosters. Rather than requiring the newest yet to be in tokens character, roster diversity from the 2-5* tier is being rewarded. This appeals to the collector/completionist in me. As someone who chooses to build his roster horizontally rather than vertically (a bunch of baby champs instead of a handful of big meta ones), this feels rewarding. 

    That said, I do feel for the 4* players previously able to complete the event who are now locked out due to their roster limitations. I’ve “liked” a lot of their feedback because I think this is board is dominated by 5* players mostly and while this is awesome for me, it does suck for a LOT of them. 

    Re: the rewards. I maybe got the LT once or twice under the old
    training. So a half cover and a LT is overall a rewards increase for me, so no complaints there. However, I think the challenge aspect is the part that I enjoy most. It reminds me a lot of the old gauntlet or COTT before I champed all the 4s. Even CL10 challenge nodes are no longer about creativity for me. It’s just Thorkoye/Iceman or Hawkeye/Coulson stun squad. Locking us in to TWO characters against super high level opponents will require some creativity for sure, and I like that. Though I’m sure I’ll be eating these words when we have a Talos release with a Wasp essential. 
     
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Is everyone fighting the same level in the new Shield Clearance or does it scale?  I am still stuck on Day 3 level 4.  I just can't get past it using anything (I am a 5* player).  You have to target Thing and if you fire something tinykitty Star Lord throws out his CD that lets Mordo or Thing just one shot me.  My OML is 435 and I have tried everyone from BRB to 5X to Bishop to 4X to Vulture to Okoye.  I am obviously doing something wrong but I just cannot figure out how to get past this level.  (And, yes, I have started with boosts and still doesn't do anything for me because of the opponents high HP and I've also tried denying colors but that really doesn't do anything because ALL of Mordo's colors are deadly).
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    LavaManLee said:
    Is everyone fighting the same level in the new Shield Clearance or does it scale?  I am still stuck on Day 3 level 4.  I just can't get past it using anything (I am a 5* player).  You have to target Thing and if you fire something tinykitty Star Lord throws out his CD that lets Mordo or Thing just one shot me.  My OML is 435 and I have tried everyone from BRB to 5X to Bishop to 4X to Vulture to Okoye.  I am obviously doing something wrong but I just cannot figure out how to get past this level.  (And, yes, I have started with boosts and still doesn't do anything for me because of the opponents high HP and I've also tried denying colors but that really doesn't do anything because ALL of Mordo's colors are deadly).
    Drop a mega whale.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Daredevil:

    Do you think baby champed rosters will be able to do the 5e nodes when the new 4* isn't as good hellcat or karnak?

    I don't even know if such rosters *should* be able to compete ever welcome to shield in the end (what is demi's actual target?), but what would the ideal strategy be for 530 riri/Bobbi/goon with, say, a level 500 Northstar/emma + a one cover oml?


  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    LavaManLee said:
    Is everyone fighting the same level in the new Shield Clearance or does it scale?  I am still stuck on Day 3 level 4.  I just can't get past it using anything (I am a 5* player).  You have to target Thing and if you fire something tinykitty Star Lord throws out his CD that lets Mordo or Thing just one shot me.  My OML is 435 and I have tried everyone from BRB to 5X to Bishop to 4X to Vulture to Okoye.  I am obviously doing something wrong but I just cannot figure out how to get past this level.  (And, yes, I have started with boosts and still doesn't do anything for me because of the opponents high HP and I've also tried denying colors but that really doesn't do anything because ALL of Mordo's colors are deadly).
    My 3 enemies were all 575. I have a 255 OML at 4/5/1 and I beat this on my 2nd attempt using 292 Valkyrie as my 3rd (her red at 3 covers). I boosted 2 Yellow to start the match.

    See who the initial bounty is on then target them for more Yellow AND to reduce enemy AP. Match Yellow ASAP and cast Patsy Yellow ASAP before Starlord CD matters (ie before they can fire powers at reduced cost).

    You do NOT have to target Thing. He doesn't make protects unless one of his allies takes like 10+K damage which won't happen till Patsy ramps up the strikes for many turns. This is why you chase the bounty from character to character until your strikes do 10K damage per turn. I ended up with 2 Patsy Yellows on the board and the AI never fired a power because I was able to use Valkrie AP destruction to keep the enemy AP in check.

    I didn't even equip any supports.

    KGB
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks for the tips.  Will make a few adjustments and see how I do.  Appreciate it.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Relax, dude. That's just a feedback. It's not like they are going to implement it.  :s

    I'm very surprised that no 5* player used 5* Yelena in day 3 5* node. She seems like the perfect 5-star to deal with those characters.

    Has she been forsaken?

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm very surprised that no 5* player used 5* Yelena in day 3 5* node. She seems like the perfect 5-star to deal with those characters.
    Most probably not many have her championed or decently levelled yet. I've only seen one lvl 405 Yelena so far (in events, I know some people already have her championed). 
    Many players are waiting to open tokens for her until Apocalypse enters......forced by circumstance to abandon lesser 5s (Havok).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Feedback is just another way to share another perspective. Even if the devs don't implement my feedback, I'm not going to be angry about it. I don't get why some people are getting so triggered about this. 

    If they run this every month, those 5* players who are only capable of using whales will be forced to play with 3* Deadpool everyday. 

    Test of Skill should be a node where it allows the community to brainstorm ideas to work out solutions together. Whales is a pretty lazy solution where anyone who have enough Deadpool Points can win the match as long as they can survive the attack. 

    Bringing Hood seems risky because you need to make sure the tiles have x number of that coloured tiles, but it can work.

    As for the best partner for Northstar in that imaginary scenario, it got to be Domino.
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Edited : I was trying to be too cute.  I just took in my halfThor and brute forced it with major help from Patty's yellow.  I hadn't tried it yet because I assumed it wouldn't work.  Should have done that first.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    OJSP said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Do you think baby champed rosters will be able to do the 5e nodes when the new 4* isn't as good hellcat or karnak?

    I don't even know if such rosters *should* be able to compete ever welcome to shield in the end (what is demi's actual target?), but what would the ideal strategy be for 530 riri/Bobbi/goon with, say, a level 500 Northstar/emma + a one cover oml?
    I'm not Daredevil, but I'm curious to why you're framing your questions like that and I want to try answering your questions.

    When you said "such rosters", were you referring to those with baby champed rosters? Why then go to just having a one cover OML in the further question? I appreciate having baby champed rosters might mean not having all of the 5* champed and maybe some of the 5*s actually only have single covers, but that's a bit of a big jump between the 2 circumstances in the scenarios you are describing.

    I should think it would be very hard or impossible for someone with a single cover 5* to do the D2 and/or D3 5* nodes if the 4* is weak. It would be hard even for someone with a properly championed higher levelled 5*, especially if they end up having to fight one (or 2, with the third character that we could bring) against 3 highly levelled opponents like them. That's why it is important for the developers to test the characters properly for these nodes.

    I should think, with a lvl 500 Northstar/Emma in your scenario, who we are bringing as the 3rd character would be the key (and to some extent what one cover we have for OML) if we're going to beat that node.

    I think as a general rule of thumb, just like there is a minimum number of covers/levels required for beating Crash of the Titans nodes, a similar criteria could be applied for these nodes too. I'd think at least the 5* needs at least 1 of each power to allow levelling them up higher and at least utilising the APs we are gathering, so they are more than just a meat shield. Since a lot of the powers could either severely injure a character or down them, we basically need them to be able to survive the match damage (and/or the weaker powers) until we could unleash our powers. So yeah, that's the puzzle aspect of these nodes.

    I can't really say what is Demi's actual target, but from the first post, I think these nodes are for players who are already accustomed to playing CL9 and CL10 and beating them on a regular basis.

    I think you are missing the issue I was trying to illustrate.  Hellcat is a significant outlier for 4*s.  She is better than average for a 4*, and moreover her particular strength (tile boosting) plays up in high-level play while her particular weaknesses (low boosting numbers and low health) are non factors when she is boosted to 500+.  So when evaluating the level of challenge provided by this event, I think we need to remember to adjust our expectations accordingly. 

    As for framing my question with a 1-cover OML, that was just to reduce the variable as much as possible (a 9-cover OMLs play very differently depending on how the covers are distributed).  Plenty of people do have a baby champ OML, but that was actually a detriment this time, since he made the hellcat/valk pairing less effective.  And in pick-1 gameplay, I think it's fair to assume that a large slice of the playerbase will need to win these nodes with a combo of new 4* meatshield + a single 4* or 5* champ from their roster.

    beating Crash of the titans with low-cover 4*s was a fun challenge (and also ~half as punishing on HP reserves as these 5E nodes).  But because of the non-linear leveling curve, I don't know that it is particular analagous to this.  the gap between 70 and 270 is WAY less than the gap between 375 and 575.  Getting a loaner 4* at 500+ will surely help bridge that gap sometimes (like with hellcat), but I am less certain when it's a 4* trashcan.
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,786 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hi.  I'm late to this posting, but based on my skimming, I'd like to input my thoughts on the "Test of Skill" deal.

    It's just like the Challenge Node, except they force you to use a character or two (in this case, two... not sure what the future holds).

    When it comes to the Challenge Node, there's been a formula that we forumites have pretty much drilled it down to.  It's not fool-proof, but there's been tons of teams posted that win those nodes, and it usually boils down to having a stunner, and/or someway to generate AP reliably.  Board control is a plus, as well.

    When it's discussed, certain teams are just mentioned as obvious 'gimmes'.  4*Gamora and her stun/kill squad (Hawk5ye and Coulson(or)Hammercap) is one such team.  Another is any use of 3*DPs Whales to get the job done.

    It's not that the whales are cheating... and to be honest, nobody is gonna look down their nose at you for using them.  After all, if you built up the points to use it, and you can survive long enough to do so, then go for it!  However, there are plenty of players that wanna try to beat it without relying on the same trick every time.  I'll say from experience that the Gamora squad gets boring real quick.  But its so reliable!  There are a few challenge nodes that I couldnt beat with her team.. so I whale'd them.  There was a bit of a trick to surviving the challenge node long enough to use them (DPs black almost works against you sometimes!)... but overall, there's little strategy to it.  Have points?  Play them, keep DP alive, farm purple as priority, bring purple boosts if you can.  His teammates matter, but more often than not, you're using SW as well, and as long as one of her countdowns expire, you're usually golden to cash in those points and win.

    So, if you use DP Whales to win... I for one am not looking down on you.  I've done it plenty as well (did it 4x in one event just because I felt like it).  But it's kinda a known solution at this point, and doesn't really address the enemy team so much as just give you an instant ace up the sleeves.  It doesn't fight the enemy... it just wins, at the expense of a slow-to-build resource.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    *snip*
    I see. I think I missed it because I was trying to understand what you meant by having a baby champed roster. I purposefully just answered the second question.

    Since you've clarified they are different questions, then I could try to answer the first question. If the 5* is championed, they should be able to beat the D2 and/or D3 nodes regardless of the strength of the 4*. How? It depends on the characters we choose. That's going to be the puzzle.

    You mentioned having a championed/ levelled OML could be detrimental if we bring Valkyrie as the 3rd character. You're right. It's not the answer if that's what we have. We just have to find other answers.
    There are definitely a couple of different discussions going on here:

    (1) There's a "Is this event too hard, and what does 'too hard' even mean in the first place?" discussion;

    (2) There's a "How can I beat this node?" discussion; and

    (3) There's a "What is the optimal game design strategy?" discussion.

    I think you and I agree that the answer to (1) is probably "no."  Challenging nodes can be fun as they force out-side the box thinking and can provide a lot of satisfaction in the end, even if they are frustrating when you wipe the first few times.

    So far, i have found valkyrie to be far and away the best available answer to (2) for this event.  other options like america or bishop or invis tricks have seemed potentially viable to me on trial runs, but valk has worked ~50-67% of the time for me. I imagine that we will have a thread for this discussion every time welcome to shield rolls around, and that will definitely be fun some (most?) of the time.

    Finally, I think we may disagree on the answer to (3).  You seem to be of the opinion that this event is well-designed or at least fine as it is.  I think that pick-1 is bad game design so long as other mpq design-elements (particularly healthpacks) remain in effect.  I would feel much more sanguine about the design of this event if it were like ddq in that the first 5E node was gated behind the essential character (so you can only get in the 5e door if you have at least one cover for the essentials), but the later days also offered 1/1/1 level 300 loaners (so you could save on healthpacks if you want to experiment, but still might get some benefit from having a higher-level roster).  But that might leave some smaller rosters feeling left out with only a handful of nodes available to them, which I imagine was something demi wanted to avoid.

    Also, am I interpreting your response correctly as "If you have the essential 5* champed, then you should be able to beat the day 2 and day 3 nodes every time?"  I suspect that is true for most 5*s (maybe not wasp and banner), but is still a little unsatisfying for me because to the extent that the fun is picking unusual teams/combos, I don't love nodes that lock-in 2/3 of the combo (especially not with that 2/3 selection being made by a combo of RNG and demi's famously bad team-building strategies).

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