***** The Hulk (Immortal) *****

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Comments

  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    edited 25 March 2020, 05:00
    EDIT: Numbers have been subsequently released, and I can't believe I was the conservative one, not the Dev's lol

    Same here wymtime. I think we need to expect 'extreme' damage to be calculated on a per AP basis.
    Goblin and Havok should be good examples, since new character's damage will certainly be higher per AP than theirs to earn this Extreme title. But, I'd be shocked if we get to 30K for 7 AP at base champ level. 

    [EDIT: Professor X purple->red would probably be a better comparison due to it having no real drawback or qualifier]

    Goblin's black deals right around 3K per AP, and this new guy's should beat that calc.

    So, Extreme damage > 7AP x 3000 damage, or, > 21K
    [for example 3800 per AP x 7 = 26,600, so it would take very extreme per-AP damage to beat this]

    Could the Large self-damage caveat allow this damage calc a 33% increase from that baseline Goblin comparison?

    I'm thinking we will see around 28K target damage and 7500 - 9K self damage from his red. Over 9K would be nearly 25% of his low starting health.

    And how much continual self-damage could he be doing on each of his matches? 600, 800, 1000 even? That will add up fast. 
    But of course, we shouldn't care too much since we want him to get KO'd and revive with higher match damage anyway. Right?
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,447 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    [...]

    And how much continual self-damage could he be doing on each of his matches? 600, 800, 1000 even? That will add up fast. 
    But of course, we shouldn't care too much since we want him to get KO'd and revive with higher match damage anyway. Right?
    To a point, I'd imagine. It looks like there is an upper bound to it, so at a certain point the match damage won't be going up any further. 
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    edited 24 March 2020, 14:27
    Correct, but I'd suppose the cap is somewhere around 2 revives?  Could it be 3? That would be crazy, but possible.

    Reviving with true health has it's own benefits, even without considering the increased match damage. It's quite simply free-damage-absorption, or, free health packs, I suppose.

    I realize your other teammates will potentially take damage during the turn that new guy is downed, but it's not much different than if they tank certain colors over him anyway.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,447 Chairperson of the Boards
    It appears the maximum incrementation goes up with the number of covers, so there's a world where it could go 5 revives higher I'd imagine?
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 3,154 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 March 2020, 14:30
    I think context is important. 

    Using Havok's red power as a guideline is good, but using his blue is not good. His blue requires you to have either 2 red or green ap before you can fire off his power, so it's not exactly 18k for 7ap. 

    Likewise for Goblin, there's a risk of his CD getting matched and having his power locked out for the rest of the match. His CD is not fortified initially.

    For Immortal Hulk, I believe the increase in match damage after his resurrection will be taken into account to balance the extreme damage.

    1* Juggernaut's red is dealing about twice the damage of 1* Spiderman's red for the same ap cost. The drawback is that 1* Jug takes 50% of the damage dealt.

    Since Havok's red is dealing 2k per ap, and using the example above. His red should be dealing about 28k damage for 7ap, with him taking 14k to 18k self-damage.

    It's fun to hypothesise.


  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,447 Chairperson of the Boards
    Who does the most damage/ap? C&D's purple when it only costs 3? Do we think the devs consider "extreme damage" in the context of AP/damage even? Who does the most damage straight up? Lumbercap to a single target I guess?
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    Same here. I think we need to expect 'extreme' damage to be calculated on a per AP basis.
    Goblin and Havok should be good examples, since new character's damage will certainly be higher per AP than theirs to earn this Extreme title. But, I'd be shocked if we get to 30K for 7 AP at base champ level. 

    Goblin's black deals right around 3K per AP, and this new guy's should beat that calc.

    So, Extreme damage > 7AP x 3000 damage, or, > 21K
    [for example 3800 per AP x 7 = 26,600, so it would take very extreme per-AP damage to beat this]

    Could the Large self-damage caveat allow this damage calc a 33% increase from that baseline Goblin comparison?

    I'm thinking we will see around 28K target damage and 7500 - 9K self damage from his red. Over 9K would be nearly 25% of his low starting health.

    And how much continual self-damage could he be doing on each of his matches? 600, 800, 1000 even? That will add up fast. 
    But of course, we shouldn't care too much since we want him to get KO'd and revive with higher match damage anyway. Right?
    I like your numbers.  I do wonder how many times you could down him in a match to build up that match damage.  I think in CL10 challenge node you could probably down him 3-4 times.  In PVP once maybe twice.  Bringing him in with just enough to die after self damage and one enemy match damage might be ideal
  • JiraiyaSanninJiraiyaSannin Posts: 19 Just Dropped In
    I've been thinking, so if the new hulk (since they spoiled it already on one min marvel show.) If you bring thanos and hulk dies from court death each match. Does it mean hulk is gonna be tanking + hitting harder everytime he comes back? (Still waiting on the number to see how hard he is gonna hit, plus how much life he comes back with.) 
  • TPF AlexisTPF Alexis Posts: 3,784 Chairperson of the Boards
    It appears the maximum incrementation goes up with the number of covers, so there's a world where it could go 5 revives higher I'd imagine?

    The way it's phrased, the max damage might just go up proportionally to the regular damage increase, so it would still be, say, 3 times the regular increase at each cover level.
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,524 Site Admin
    Updated to full name and stats. And in the green corner, weighing in at "we didn't want to ask" pounds,,, The Hulk!
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 March 2020, 23:57
    So with the numbers out I am thinking 5,3,5.  I really his black I just don’t think he will he downed 4X in a match.  Green with 5K free AOE is solid, and that red 32K damage is nice.  Can’t wait for him to enter latest.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 3,154 Chairperson of the Boards
    What's the maximum self-damage for his red? I think it should be somewhere near 30k?
  • GreenArmadilloGreenArmadillo Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
    There would be a certain irony if the new Hulk plays well with the 5 star Puny God.
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,535 Chairperson of the Boards
    What's the maximum self-damage for his red? I think it should be somewhere near 30k?
    There is a line saying that the max self dmg would be 20+k.
  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,110 Chairperson of the Boards
    32k for 7ap huh? Well then
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 3,154 Chairperson of the Boards
    I thought the 20k damage refers to target damage.

    His red is able to one shot most of the 370 4*. At 550, he deals about 70k damage, which is enough to down many baby champed 5*. :o

    Defensively, I wouldn't pair him with another red active user if I want to make sure that the opponenent suffers terrible damage, even if they win matches.

    I think he might be a good defensive and offensive character.

    I can't wait to champ him next year.  B)

  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,524 Site Admin
    Kojubat said:
    IceIX said:

    What Does Kill Me -  PASSIVE
    (PASSIVE) Death is but a frequent inconvenience. Whenever the Immortal Hulk makes a match, deals 622 damage to himself. When Downed, if there are any non-Downed allies, the Immortal Hulk is revived with 4446 health, deals 1814 damage to his allies, and his base match damage is increased by 35% (up to a maximum of 210%.) (Max level 2502 self damage, 17869 revived health, 7291 ally damage)
    • Level 2: Deals 627 match damage to himself per match. Gains 39% match damage when revived. Maximum match damage increase raised to 231%. (Max level 2507 self damage)
    • Level 3: Deals 632 match damage to himself per match. Gains 42% match damage when revived. Maximum match damage increase raised to 252%. (Max level 2512 self damage)
    • Level 4: Deals 637 match damage to himself per match. Gains 49% match damage when revived. Maximum match damage increase raised to 294%. (Max level 2517 self damage)
    • Level 5: Deals 642 match damage to himself per match. Gains 63% match damage when revived. Maximum match damage increase raised to 378%. (Max level 2522 self damage)

    So... when does the revival occur in order of operations?
    1. Is it near-instant when he matches tiles, occurring immediately at the point of death, similar to how Bullseye's protect tile on a purple match will temporarily interrupt a cascade, causing later matches in the cascade to potentially be the next tier of boosted match damage?
    2. If so, will the same occur during an enemy cascade?
    3. If it occurs on the opponent's turn, can it occur multiple times from multiple matches/power usages?
    4. If it occurs on the opponent's turn, can it occur multiple times from the same power usage, such as Valkyrie's "Dragonfang Fury" or Beta Ray Bill's "Skuttlebutt!", similar to how Captain Marvel can boost strike tiles she has not actually created just yet?
    5. If it waits for the board to settle and/or powers to resolve, will it still occur on the enemy's turn, or do you have to wait until the start of Hulk's turn, like Nico's "When Blood Is Shed"?

    5. It waits for whatever the current thing affecting the board/characters is, then goes off. It doesn't matter when this happens, so it can happen on either player's turn.
  • IceIXIceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,524 Site Admin
    What's the maximum self-damage for his red? I think it should be somewhere near 30k?
    17869 self damage, unchanged by covers. I added that to the original post.
  • Vins2Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    I like how his red seems to be an automatic self KO after his first revive.  I like it as a last ditch move, and I like it thematically in that he's dumb and he'll keep doing it.  
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