4.0 Packs Changes

Tremayne

@Mooninja - Right you are. I’ll have to see if I can manage to win without them. 

Crossing fingers.... 

JopeX37

Pantagruel said:

bken1234 said:

I think it’s interesting how people are already trying to get refunds and cancel VIP when 1. The change was just announced. 2. There hasn’t been a response to the backlash. 3. It hasn’t actually happened. 

”Wise to resolve and patient to perform.” - Homer 

If Oktagon had earned our trust and patience over the last few years, then we'd be acting with it.

And here I was about to type out a couple of paragraphs saying what you eloquently stated in one sentence.

ALEJANDROID

Sooooo glad i didn't renewed my VIP membershep

Magic:PQ Support Team

(01/30/20) *UPDATE - Latest news about the VIP/Standard Booster.

Zethish

Oktagon_Support said:

(01/30/20) *UPDATE - Latest news about the VIP/Standard Booster.

Hats off for adjusting to player feedback! 

Klep

Thank you for the apology.  This course-correction is obviously what should have been done in the first place, but perhaps if there was better (read: any) communication with the playerbase this entire episode could have been avoided.

Mooninja

So, like I stated before. They lead with a much worse offering, only to later retract it so that a lesser evil is welcomed with open arms. What about pack rarity%, event rewards, access to Non-dupe packs for non-VIP members(old Phillip event), crazy crafting costs etc. 

Ampersand

@Oktagon_Support
 Thank you very much for listening to the player feedback and concerns about the VIP and Standard pack issues! I really appreciate the quick and thoughtful response. 

I understand that changes need to be made, but giving us this lead time of warning goes a long way toward maintaining player morale.

Quantius

Mooninja said:

So, like I stated before. They lead with a much worse offering, only to later retract it so that a lesser evil is welcomed with open arms. What about pack rarity%, event rewards, access to Non-dupe packs for non-VIP members(old Phillip event), crazy crafting costs etc. 

Welcomed with open arms is a bit strong. The change is still misguided imo and one that probably won't pan out the way they're hoping, but killing people's stockpiled packs was going to be an instant loser for them. People will have to reckon with the change in due time as the set after THB will show us how people really feel about the new VIP style.

I still think that they should add cosmetics for cash if they're struggling to figure out how to get people spending.

boopers

@Oktagon_Support

Thanks for the Quick resolution!

This is fair. The value of my past purchases is being honored, and I have the info and time I need to adjust to the upcoming changes. 

I now read this announcement like this:

”Players that have VIP and complete sets will be slightly delayed in completing their collections starting with the set after Theros. VIP Players that do not have complete collections, and likely do not have a stockpile, it will be pretty much be the same as before.”

I can work with that, as my only concern is having a method to get a complete collection without trusting to luck of normal packs. I have that still, so I’m good. 

Mburn7

Klep said:

Thank you for the apology.  This course-correction is obviously what should have been done in the first place, but perhaps if there was better (read: any) communication with the playerbase this entire episode could have been avoided.

Seriously.  This is the first communication we've had from the dev team in a while and they dropped a couple bombs on us.  I admire their commitment to making major changes nobody asked for in lieu of and number of minor changes that we do want, but the communication has gotten worse and worse and worse, and that makes all of their decisions get received much more negatively

FindingHeart8

Oktagon_Support said:

(01/30/20) *UPDATE - Latest news about the VIP/Standard Booster.

good job handling the unrest quickly and efficiently!

Unfortunate that management threw you to the wolves like that though.

FindingHeart8

 I was one of the initial VIP'rs that lost trust in the package after a glitch gave me just dupe commons/uncommons and it took weeks of uncertainty before anything was done about it.

I thought about coming back because I LOVED Eldraine and Theros.  However I'm suuper wary of Ocatagon's Executive-Management-motives these days.

Ampersand

FindingHeart8 said:

  ...However I'm suuper wary of Ocatagon's Executive-Management-motives these days.

I suspect that this decision came from D3, and Oktagon was told to implement it. 

FindingHeart8

Ampersand said:

FindingHeart8 said:

  ...However I'm suuper wary of Ocatagon's Executive-Management-motives these days.

I suspect that this decision came from D3, and Oktagon was told to implement it. 

That would be even scarier, because D3 has less to lose...especially with their new GI Joe app recently launched, MTGPQ might be old news.

Matthew

Oktagon_Support said:

*UPDATE*

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for all your feedback. We are sorry about putting unnecessary pressure on the player community at this point. We agree that the announcement was rather on short notice and we apologize for creating discomfort.

VIP/Standard Booster

We have decided to postpone the change to the VIP/Standard Boosters to the 4.x release, when the next set after THB will be released.

This should give especially the veteran subscribers enough time to adapt to this change.

Thus cards from the upcoming set Theros Beyond Death will be part of the accumulated Boosters.

Starting from the release of the set after THB, newly acquired VIP/Standard Boosters will help your collection building efforts as usual. In other words, nothing changes as far as the Booster itself goes; just the timing window in which a collection will start showing up in them.

Booster Crafting

We will however maintain the change for when the former newest set is entering Booster Crafting.

This means THB will become available for crafting when the next set will be released. The price in Mana Orbs will be the same as any other Standard set.

I still have some questions about this, and some concerns as well. It seems like a lot of the comments on here find this acceptable, but I do not. I would argue that the proposed solution here is only acceptable when viewed comparatively alongside the original change they presented to us. I almost find myself agreeing with @Mooninja: this feels like a premeditated and scripted set of actions. That was the genesis behind my knee-jerk reaction upon reading the announcement yesterday.

I've since calmed down, though, and have a slightly different take on it. I can absolutely agree that this is probably a healthy move for the game, but I think that is only when viewed across the long-term life of the game. With that in mind, I think that the change to packs should only be applied to new packs that a player acquires after the release of Theros.

If I want to hold onto the packs I have right now for a year, or two, or three, then I should bloody well be able to do so without them losing any of their current value/utility. Especially because I am a paying customer who has spent a significant amount on this game already. If, after the release of Eldraine, a VIP subscriber was able to acquire most of the set in a short period of time suddenly decided that they wanted to take a year-long break from the game, then that player would rightfully be angry when they eventually come back and discover that the extra packs they were sitting on had become greatly devalued.

On that note, I think that moving forward, the changes proposed by Oktagon should only be applied to newly acquired boosters. I have no problem with them being locked to a specific set or configuration of sets in Standard. We already have something like this with the rare and mythic event reward boosters. This is just a natural evolution of that, and I think it does make sense to go that route. But to lock people out of new sets with the packs they have now is too harsh. You're punishing your most patient players by taking this action, and not only that, those players are paying you money!

The Standard packs we have in our inventory right now should never stop updating; they should mirror the current Standard environment at the time a player eventually decides to open them. I have exercised a massive degree of patience and foresight in managing my in-game resources for over two years now. I have a respectable stockpile of packs, the value of which will be greatly diminished if this change is implemented, all because of how I consciously decided to keep a check on my own desires as each new set rolled in. There are others in the same boat as me, too, so this is not just a "me" problem. And while I may be in the minority on that point, I think that only serves to add weight to it. There can't be many players in the same boat as me. It won't take long for the majority of players to use up the packs they have right now. Making the change in this fashion is, I think, the most fair solution to the problem. 

Matthew

I wanted to post a really quick follow-up to my post just above this one. I applaud Oktagon for their responsiveness on this issue. I really do. It at least gives the impression that they're paying attention to what's going on here on the forums, and there's something to be said for that. I don't want to lose sight of that fact amongst the frustration felt by myself and the other players voicing their opinions in this thread.

However, there is more that can be done on that front @Oktagon_Support. Please convey to your overlords that changes of this nature would cause far less of an uproar amongst the players if you took the time to ask our opinions on them first. That wouldn't be an unprecedented action on your part. At the time of writing this post, you have an entirely separate thread in the General Forum section asking our opinions on new content.

I recommend that you come to us directly with things like this in the future. You'll find that we're quite responsive. Magic players and fans of Magic are an odd bunch, in that we welcome that kind of interaction with the producers. It's fun and cool and exciting for us. It makes us appreciate what you're doing, and the work that goes into the product you put out, and I'm sure it makes people feel good about spending money because they feel like valued customers. Please make a note of that.

ApexMatrix

Oktagon_Support said:

Packs Changes

Booster Pack Crafting Changes

Cards from the newest set will become available for crafting only after the release of the next set.

• Cards from the newest set will become available for crafting only after the release of the next set. Starting from Theros Beyond Death, the cards from a new set will only become craftable after the release of the next set. This means that, as long as Theros Beyond Death is the newest set released in Standard, the cards from THB will not be available for crafting, until the release of the next collection.

VIP Booster Packs Changes

Once received, VIP Packs will only provide cards of that set.

• Once received, VIP Packs will only provide cards of that set. VIP packs acquired during a current set will only contain cards from that given set. For example: if you receive a VIP pack while Theros Beyond Death is the newest set in Standard, that pack will only (and always) contain cards from THB. That pack content will not be updated with cards from the next set, when this is released. Instead, each set will have its own VIP packs.

Standard Packs Changes

Standard Packs will have the cards defined once given, and won't update when new collections are released.

• Standard Packs will have the cards defined once given, and won't update when new collections are released. Standard packs will only contain cards from the Standard configuration of when they were received. For example: if you receive a Standard pack while GRN, RNA, WAR, M20 and ELD are the only sets in Standard, that pack will keep having cards only from those sets, even after the release of other collections, such as THB.

*UPDATE*

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for all your feedback. We are sorry about putting unnecessary pressure on the player community at this point. We agree that the announcement was rather on short notice and we apologize for creating discomfort.

VIP/Standard Booster

We have decided to postpone the change to the VIP/Standard Boosters to the 4.x release, when the next set after THB will be released.

This should give especially the veteran subscribers enough time to adapt to this change.

Thus cards from the upcoming set Theros Beyond Death will be part of the accumulated Boosters.

Starting from the release of the set after THB, newly acquired VIP/Standard Boosters will help your collection building efforts as usual. In other words, nothing changes as far as the Booster itself goes; just the timing window in which a collection will start showing up in them.

Booster Crafting

We will however maintain the change for when the former newest set is entering Booster Crafting.

This means THB will become available for crafting when the next set will be released. The price in Mana Orbs will be the same as any other Standard set.

Wait, I'm confused. Are the changes happening or not?

On one hand you say your postponing the changes of making the non-dupe boosters only good for the set you recieve them in. And then on the other hand you say nothing is changing to the boosters except the timing. 

If I recieve vip packs after THB releases and don't open them till the next set, will they include that next set?

GrizzoMtGPQ

ApexMatrix said:

Oktagon_Support said:

Packs Changes

Booster Pack Crafting Changes

Cards from the newest set will become available for crafting only after the release of the next set.

• Cards from the newest set will become available for crafting only after the release of the next set. Starting from Theros Beyond Death, the cards from a new set will only become craftable after the release of the next set. This means that, as long as Theros Beyond Death is the newest set released in Standard, the cards from THB will not be available for crafting, until the release of the next collection.

VIP Booster Packs Changes

Once received, VIP Packs will only provide cards of that set.

• Once received, VIP Packs will only provide cards of that set. VIP packs acquired during a current set will only contain cards from that given set. For example: if you receive a VIP pack while Theros Beyond Death is the newest set in Standard, that pack will only (and always) contain cards from THB. That pack content will not be updated with cards from the next set, when this is released. Instead, each set will have its own VIP packs.

Standard Packs Changes

Standard Packs will have the cards defined once given, and won't update when new collections are released.

• Standard Packs will have the cards defined once given, and won't update when new collections are released. Standard packs will only contain cards from the Standard configuration of when they were received. For example: if you receive a Standard pack while GRN, RNA, WAR, M20 and ELD are the only sets in Standard, that pack will keep having cards only from those sets, even after the release of other collections, such as THB.

*UPDATE*

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for all your feedback. We are sorry about putting unnecessary pressure on the player community at this point. We agree that the announcement was rather on short notice and we apologize for creating discomfort.

VIP/Standard Booster

We have decided to postpone the change to the VIP/Standard Boosters to the 4.x release, when the next set after THB will be released.

This should give especially the veteran subscribers enough time to adapt to this change.

Thus cards from the upcoming set Theros Beyond Death will be part of the accumulated Boosters.

Starting from the release of the set after THB, newly acquired VIP/Standard Boosters will help your collection building efforts as usual. In other words, nothing changes as far as the Booster itself goes; just the timing window in which a collection will start showing up in them.

Booster Crafting

We will however maintain the change for when the former newest set is entering Booster Crafting.

This means THB will become available for crafting when the next set will be released. The price in Mana Orbs will be the same as any other Standard set.

Wait, I'm confused. Are the changes happening or not?

On one hand you say your postponing the changes of making the non-dupe boosters only good for the set you recieve them in. And then on the other hand you say nothing is changing to the boosters except the timing. 

If I recieve vip packs after THB releases and don't open them till the next set, will they include that next set?

They are happening but not until after the next set.

GrizzoMtGPQ

Let's play a game! I think these are some of the axioms of our overlords. Any you think I missed?

D3 Axioms:

• Every bad will choice that can be made will be made.
• Don't communicate. If you do communicate do so in the most infuriating way possible without first consulting anyone who plays the game.