4.0 Packs Changes

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Comments

  • Azerack
    Azerack Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2020
    boopers said:
    Let’s not over react folks. Give them a chance to respond. 


    It's not about overreacting. I hope you're just a very optimistic Master level VIP subscriber, @boopers , because my $30 a month is supposed to get me a pay-to-play (calling a spade a spade) advantage over those choosing not to support D3 monthly.

    What this does, is remove a choice paying supporters have that was part of the reason we paid for the service in the first place. If we want to save up our packs for some specific expansion, why shouldn't we be allowed to?
    What if we're already spending money on crystals to get packs and then use our VIP packs to supplement that (which is pretty much what I did this most recent expansion).

    D3 has done this before where they change things but forget to (or just simply don't) mention the recompense for the change. Oh, and of course, including the no-advance-warning part, which is basically asking for forgiveness rather than permission.

    So, sure, I'll give them a chance to respond.. But $30/month can go to a lot of other companies I support, too. Just saying... 
  • boopers
    boopers Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
    Mooninja said:

    So for $90 I can wait three months to open 6 VIP packs that, if I invest orbs correctly, would have mostly Mythics/MPs...IF I have accumulated enough orbs to buy down the 1,500 a piece rares.

    This is in NO way good for the game. The current packs system is already unacceptable, but to add this caveat is to just make the entire game unacceptable.
    This is already reality for a lot of VIP members that have complete collections.  We spend $30/mo. and stockpile VIP and non-dup standard packs for 3 months leading up to a new set.  We wait 3 months, then crack the packs.

    That's all this change really is, you can't get a complete new set on day 1, but the tools at our disposal to do so haven't changed at all.  The difference is just timing. And at face value, I'm thinking that is a good thing for competitive balance.

    Practically speaking, I'm expecting that this change (forcing me to wait 3 months) is actually going to improve the efficiency of my non-dup VIP packs.  I will have accumulated more than 40+ more free new-set packs than usual, likely filling out my collection better so that more of my non-dup packs are used to yield rarer cards.

    I enjoyed getting a full set day 1, but there is still a system in place so that I can easily get a full set... That's why I invested in VIP, to guarantee I can get a full set as cheaply as possible. 

    Maybe I'm a lone man on an island here, but as long as they fairly address the previous purchases, I'm very ok with with the change.
  • Ampersand
    Ampersand Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    So, for me, this will actually reduce my overall spending on the game not increase it.

    Same

  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Volrak said:
    Non-dupe boosters are incredibly powerful for those who use them optimally.  Comparing like with like in terms of the best use you can expect to get out of it, a single optimised non-dupe booster is literally as valuable as thousands of dollars worth of crystals bought from the shop.

    My assumption is that in order to be reasonably sure of even having a game in a year's time, a change was required.  The fact that non-dupe boosters have changed isn't surprising, and if anything it's a milder change than I was expecting.  Non-dupe packs will still be worth thousands of dollars worth of crystals each, but that value (for Standard packs) will just be set locked.

    But I can clearly see the issue for people who paid money specifically to stockpile non-dupe packs, under the assumption they'd include THB cards.  I believe those customers' reasonable expectations around those purchases won't be met unless they do.  I think it would be unreasonable not to apply a grace period (effectively including THB in stockpiled Standard packs but no subsequent sets), or failing that, some kind of (fair) compensation for affected players.  (I do not have any stockpiled Standard packs.)  That will probably mess with D3's profit/loss forecasting and may have some real consequences for their forward plans, but the alternative is basically screwing their paying VIP customers.


    Well said.

    I have stockpiled packs too and having them be grandfathered in would satisfy me as a VIP member and happily accept the change going forward. Not doing so though, will leave me and many others with no choice but to cash in those packs and dupe them out for orbs, which we also cannot use because we cannot craft anything. The latter is a very good reason to cancel a VIP membership I think. That would be the same as saving up free movies from your monthly streaming service only to have them make a change and can only watch movies released the year before last and earlier.

  • Quantius
    Quantius Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Not honoring existing packs is a flat out deal breaker for me (and others as we can all see).

    However, I think the change is still a money loser. Gold crystals are still difficult to come by (esp if you're buying PWers and Fblthp cards). One of the things that I [and assume others do] is drop $100-$200 on a new set release to power through the Commons-Rares to use all the VIP packs. After that, all standard packs for the next 3 months are just [useless] orbs. Same goes for exclusives/PWers that come with packs. Those packs are all dupes.

    But with this change you can't stockpile VIP packs and therefore there is no point in spending $100-$200 to make sure I clear all the Commons-Rares because I'll be earning standard packs for the next 3 months (and any packs that come with other offers). So I just play a set behind, spend a lot less money and enjoy the game less. Cool.

    I really don't get how this encourages spending money. If you spend a ton of money on a set release, then you devalue (or render worthless) your VIP packs that you can't open for 3+ months. So if you're on VIP, then you shouldn't spend any more money because spending money ruins your VIP benefits.

    And if you're someone who forgoes VIP and just drops $1k+ on a set release, then this change doesn't affect you. I think the idea is that VIP members will become like that by taking away VIP's convenience. I dunno how many people there are like that, but all I see is VIP members spending less because they've taken away the incentive to spend more in order to get to VIP packs.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    Gunmix25 said:
    Volrak said:
    Non-dupe boosters are incredibly powerful for those who use them optimally.  Comparing like with like in terms of the best use you can expect to get out of it, a single optimised non-dupe booster is literally as valuable as thousands of dollars worth of crystals bought from the shop.

    My assumption is that in order to be reasonably sure of even having a game in a year's time, a change was required.  The fact that non-dupe boosters have changed isn't surprising, and if anything it's a milder change than I was expecting.  Non-dupe packs will still be worth thousands of dollars worth of crystals each, but that value (for Standard packs) will just be set locked.

    But I can clearly see the issue for people who paid money specifically to stockpile non-dupe packs, under the assumption they'd include THB cards.  I believe those customers' reasonable expectations around those purchases won't be met unless they do.  I think it would be unreasonable not to apply a grace period (effectively including THB in stockpiled Standard packs but no subsequent sets), or failing that, some kind of (fair) compensation for affected players.  (I do not have any stockpiled Standard packs.)  That will probably mess with D3's profit/loss forecasting and may have some real consequences for their forward plans, but the alternative is basically screwing their paying VIP customers.


    Well said.

    I have stockpiled packs too and having them be grandfathered in would satisfy me as a VIP member and happily accept the change going forward. Not doing so though, will leave me and many others with no choice but to cash in those packs and dupe them out for orbs, which we also cannot use because we cannot craft anything. The latter is a very good reason to cancel a VIP membership I think. That would be the same as saving up free movies from your monthly streaming service only to have them make a change and can only watch movies released the year before last and earlier.


    Just adding to the chorus here.

    I don’t mind them making changes going forward.  I’ve defended their right to make changes to existing individual cards.  However, this feels different; it’s hard to get on board with the neutering of dozens of packs that VIP users purchased, because it’s affecting us across multiple levels of currency.

    For example, with Throne of Eldraine. On release date I spent my crystals and bought a lot of premium packs to eliminate as many commons/uncommons as possible. In other words, reaching critical mass.  Then I spent some jewels on elite packs.  After some targeted spending, then and only then do you open a small amount of hoarded packs to finish out a set.

    I suspect this is the same process many others use. Sure, it felt generous—but that’s the only reason VIP was worth purchasing. We only spent those crystals and jewels because we were optimizing the packs; if we'd have known the Standard packs would only be applicable for that set, then there would have been no reason to spend that much. 

    Thus, by neutering the hoarded packs, VIP users are now out:

    1. The amount of money they spent to accrue packs for future sets

    2. The amount of crystals they spent to reach critical mass in previous sets

    3. The amount of jewels they spent to reach critical mass in previous sets

    That's a huge amount of lost currency/value. 




  • Narcoticsagent
    Narcoticsagent Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    I have almost 40 non-dupe standard packs saved, if they make sure I get non dupes out of those 40 packs and make their changes afterwards I will be ok with the new system. On the other hand if those 40 non dupe packs just became worthless orbs I will be seeking a refund on my VIP packs and canceling my subscription going forward. 

    I dont know how many legacy non dupe packs I have since the app cant display the whole variety of unopened stuff I have but I think it's something like 50 or 60 non dupe packs. Will these packs ever be useful? Like if I wait 3 years or whatever it takes will the legacy packs have Theros cards in them?
  • CheeksMagunda
    CheeksMagunda Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    So here's my issue with it all - what's the point, EXCEPT to increase the cash grab? There's zero benefit to the players for this. I can safely say that as a relative newbie compared to most of y'all and the people I play against, the collection I've amassed thus far in standard is enough to be competitive at the very least. (Not so much Legacy, obviously, but that's an ever-increasing pool.) I say that to point out that this is in no way necessary as an "assist" to players that haven't stockpiled packs - if you're diligent, you don't need it.
    It sucks going up against an Urza/Astral/Finale/etc. deck, but in Standard it's limited enough that it's manageable. I won't try to say I've won EVERY matchup like that, obviously, but I know I've come out on top much more than when not against it. And that leads into my next point of confusion - the biggest thing that dedicated MtG players have is pride. In their cards, their combos, their skill. This does nothing to address that either, more just makes it easier to steamroll someone in future sets.
    It is, without a doubt, 100% a preventative measure in regards to players acquiring the new set "too quickly," thereby nullifying the need and/or the urge to dump money into the game. And the icing on the cake here is that they absolutely knew this idea would fly like a lead balloon, their player base is riled up and banging on their door...and they don't even have the decency to respond.
    I'm canceling my VIP just as many others apparently are, since there's literally no reason to pay them at this point - and keep in mind I say that as a guy that willingly, even EXCITEDLY, just paid $25 for a SINGLE Beyond booster pack less than two hours ago.
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    I find it not surprising with the state of the game declining in quality of game play over the last year. More badly coded mechanics and the time in between fixes has widened. I find it convenient that Brigby moved before the new changes happened that knowing it would create a negative response. If you think of how much time is wasted of your life in loading screens that they would balance out the cost of playing this game. I assume they already planned to retract or be flexible with some new implements and say we are cool now...? Comparing this game to the only other game I play, English version of Puzzle Dragons, there is a vast difference in quality and professionalism. They are just riding the name Magic the Gathering hoping people overlook the poor product they provide. I'll stick around and play with my coalition , but I'm done chasing cards and investing in a game that will probably crash and burn. They can't even provide a toggle between Standard and Legacy...slaps forehead in disbelief.

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