New Feature in R191: Shards

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  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
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    Shards earned through progression and placement will certainly fill in the gaps of the calculations above.
  • Rhipf
    Rhipf Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
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    I may have missed an answer to this but...

    What happens if you don't favour a character? Does this then work like BH currently does and rewards you with random shards or do you just not get any shards?

    I would assume that you would get random shards but clarification would be nice.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2019
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    Rhipf said:
    I may have missed an answer to this but...

    What happens if you don't favour a character? Does this then work like BH currently does and rewards you with random shards or do you just not get any shards?

    I would assume that you would get random shards but clarification would be nice.
    They will start by assigning one from each tier for you I'm sure. 
    Be ready to immediately find them and change to the characters you prefer. 
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 973 Critical Contributor
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    AXP_isme said:
    @IceIX

    thanks for the heads up and the communication. I have a few questions about implementation. 

    1) I like to hoard tokens and open them at the end of the season. Will I have to click through a shard screen for every token I open? That could add quite a lot of time to open ring a hoard. 

    2) if I earn shards for a character that’s max-champed, a 266 3* for example, what happens to those shards? Do they accrue one the character even though they can’t be used?

    3) what happens when I cross the threshold. Does it go to 501/500 or do I lose the extra shards? It would be rubbish to lose 20+ shards because you were at 299 for a 3*. 

    4) if I have two copies of a character, how will the shards be displayed? I have a 266 3* magneto and a 250(ish) one too. Will they both show 35/300 (for example) or will it only be visible on one? If they’re split, has anyone thought about whether that could be abused by using shards on different character copies in different sessions on different devices?

    and a couple of others for good measure. I guess, since it’s not in the table, that you don’t earn any shards for opening a token from a vault. Is that right? [fingers crossed] So, given that this is intended to even out the RNG, I guess you’ll be compensating everybody’s historic bonus heroes to the highest observed rate so that it’s fair for everyone, right? right?
    I'm still anxious to hear the answers to these questions.

    Other than #3 (sort of) I don't believe any have been addressed.
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
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    RickOShay said:
    Therealsmkspy said:
    Here's my problem with this system.

    Going off my own roster here.

    I have a 5/5/2 FA Cap (4 saved covers) and 2/5/5 Cable (5 saved covers). I will be able to specifically target them, but what if I rack up 300 points for one then pull that needed cover in a release vault or Cable gets a feeder? I'm not going to keep sharding that now champed character. Wasted shards now. 

    This system needs to be 100% non-character specific and classic feeders need a complete roll out. And the way it stands now, the only thing the devs have done appears to be the monetization of BHs.


    It doesn't solve your roster problem, but it doesn't hurt it either. 
    The current BH system is too risky for you to set either as BH, so you set Cap's feeder as the 4* BH, and Cable waits for a feeder or a special store. 

    With the new system, it's almost exactly the same. 
    It doesn't really help you much at all and that stinks. But it's no real drawback. 
    You'll continue to set the Cap 4* feeder as the Targeted hero, and Cable waits. 

    However, now you --could-- take a gamble and set Cable as your 5* TH (Targeted Hero), and there would be no risk that you'd get an unusable cover --- eventually. That would be a long road and I too would Not do it without an existing hoard. But you could.

    Now, if you had 167 LT draws saved up. This new system guarantees you could get Cable done without waiting for a feeder or a special store. That's valuable.
    The traditional BH system would NOT solve this safely.
    The larger point is that you would still have wasted shards if you're not hoarding. I know some people love to hoard and this promotes hoarding, but hoarding should not part of this feature's design. 

    Simple fact is that by making shards specific to characters, the devs have intentionally monetized this system for just such cases like I described.
  • Reecoh
    Reecoh Posts: 210 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2019
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    RickOShay said:
    Shards earned through progression and placement will certainly fill in the gaps of the calculations above.
    Regardless of how much snark was meant to be implied in that comment I expect that in typical fashion they both will AND won't make up the difference, and then some.
    Since their example in the opening post shows they are monetizing the shards only for a specific character at a time my expectation is that the reward updates they have talked about will in aggregate output more shards than the equivalent BH covers - but some/many of those will be applied to a predetermined character only and not to your selected shard target(s) resulting in a lot of little character shard pools.
    I hope my expectation turns out to be off base and all of the rewards are treated just like the token opening shards so the net effect is an overall better player experience... but their track record does not leave me optimistic.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,631 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The rockett said:
    RickOShay said:
    Shards earned through progression and placement will certainly fill in the gaps of the calculations above.
    But that is not the system they are laying out for us. The only system is the one they posted so that is what the numbers are based off of.  Just like SL10 is 2 years in the making, or support Circuit to get supports, or the same characters for LRs being the same for the past 4 years.  The list goes on.  We can only report what the data is given to us, not the future because that can change (see supports) 
    There is truth in this. I suspect nobody bar one regular here would argue that the roll out of Supports was anything other than a calamity and it took far too long to address the roll out issues to the point where it is currently dead. Considering this is arguably way more important, I think these numbers are a little worrying and players, with the caveat of wait and see, can definitely be concerned justifiably.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2019
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    Then you need to account for the time it takes to make those global draws, crossed with the likelihood that the other shard gaining areas are implemented within a timely manner.  

    It's one-sided to post that way, without a single mention of other 'coming soon' shard gain areas (Progression, Placement, Deals).

    You know that the other shard gaining areas are FAR MORE LIKELY to be implemented soon than the other things you listed.  
    How do we know this? Simply because they can be monetized. Your other things are not directly or easily monetized, so therefore they sit.
  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
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    Thinking about this - the best strategic move for developed 5* players is to pull latest tokens and target classics, or target latest and pull classics, depending on what you need. Since the pools are completely separate (only place in the game where this is true) you’ll never pull a 5* you’re collecting shards on, so no wasted shards. 

    So yeah, I figure I’ll be going after latests the same way I always have, and targeting specific 5* covers I need to finish champing my backlogged 5’s in order of either closeness (for the sense of achievement) or usefulness (my Hawkeye is woefully undercovered for the current meta).
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
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    Bryan Lambert said:
    Thinking about this - the best strategic move for developed 5* players is to pull latest tokens and target classics, or target latest and pull classics, depending on what you need. Since the pools are completely separate (only place in the game where this is true) you’ll never pull a 5* you’re collecting shards on, so no wasted shards. 

    So yeah, I figure I’ll be going after latests the same way I always have, and targeting specific 5* covers I need to finish champing my backlogged 5’s in order of either closeness (for the sense of achievement) or usefulness (my Hawkeye is woefully undercovered for the current meta).
    You'll still have wasted shards for 4*s if you're not hoarding. The flexibility of strategic roster building is dead with this system.
  • ErikPeter
    ErikPeter Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Whew. 10 pages of threads.

    Thoughts on "Wasting Shards"
    If you've got a 10/5/2 and are worried about "I lucked out and got my cover and now these 400 shards are only good for a worthless champ level" ... uh, maybe you should've used the Saved Covers to champ your guy instead of holding onto 5 ("worthless") champ levels. 

    Thoughts on the Daily Offers store
    I'm super skeptical. The daily store HP to 5-star conversion rate is 15000HP/cover, roughly $75 if you're buying, 900 at a time. 

    It's illegal to lie about gambling mechanics, so the posted 5-star odds (and BH odds) have to be legitimate. However, there's no law governing how the user-specific store operates. I am certain that if your account is flagged as an "impulse buyer" somewhere, you will get more 'lucky' store offers, and maybe even more likely when your HP is just under the 900 (3 10xshard) threshold, requiring you to buy currency to take advantage of the "limited time offer". 

    This isn't a "kid-friendly" change away from gambling mechanics, it's a change replacing the mechanics of "excitement from opening tokens" to "excitement from watching a bar progress a tiny amount, and paying to make it progress faster." It's super dubious and I hope it doesn't kill the game by turning it into a F2P2W nightmare like every other Mobile game I've tried lately.

    Thoughts on replacing Bonus Heroes
    I'm ambivalent. I recently started an alt account that would've been dead in the water if it weren't for a lucky BH on my 7th LT pull. But overall I am excited that I can work toward my desired 5s, and I am very hopeful if it means they can put 5-star rewards (i.e., 10-50 shards) in CL9 (or CL10 Coming Soon™) progression and placement. I'm only hard casual so I don't like "perfect timing" PvE slices or coordinated shield hopping in PvP, so I never get good placement rewards anyway. It'd feel pretty good if top 50 got a couple shards of a LL cover or whatever, even though it's just priming me to spend more effort on that character to finish them up.

    If it encourages mid-tier rosters to open up and use characters at all levels instead of slow grind progression, those players will have more fun. 

    IMO LLs should give 4 5-star shards per cover (or at least some increased number, considering they cost +5 CP) as a way to incentivize pulling LTs, which is generally good for the meta. 
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2019
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    I skimmed the first couple pages of replies and didn't see my specific concern with this come up yet. Please accept my apologies if this has already been said.

    I really dislike this shard system because of the way I utilize the current BH system.  I generally set my 4* and 5* BH characters to new characters so I champ them faster.  For 5* specifically, I will BH either the newest character or maybe one in Latest tokens that is falling behind and might not get champed before he/she rotates into Classics.  Once I champ that character or have another that needs to be BH more I switch it.

    The new shard system won't allow me to do that.  Unless I'm mistaken, once I earn shards for a character they're stuck with that character.  Because it takes a relatively long time to earn enough shards for a cover this means that I'll probably get the cover after I've already champed the character.  This will result in a champ level which isn't how I use the current BH system.

    It would be so much better if shards were earned for a tier not for a specific character in the tier.  Let me cash in my five hundred 5* shards for a specific character based on my needs when I earn the reward (instead of when I start earning the reward).
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2019
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    Yeah, been mentioned a bunch, but it is a point that should be repeated over and over. 

    Concerning the 400 shard point that keeps being used as an example, 400 points til the "next useless champ level" isn't the problem.
     It's that middle range of say 150-350 shards that are wasted that is the concern. 
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,313 Site Admin
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    shardwick said:
    @IceIX Does a non-limited character need to be in tokens for them to be targeted?
    Yes. Same rules for targeting as currently stands for Bonus Heroes.

    Xception81 said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    @IceIX
    What happens if you set nothing to favorite? with BHs, you currently get a random one any time one would show up. Is there a generic holding pool for shards if you don't have anyone selected?
    I second this question, but am assuming it’ll go to a random character instead (just like BH currently works). 
    Correct, same functionality as Bonus Heroes if you don't target anyone on a tier.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Players concerned about "wasting" shards on uneven numbers might have a solution already in place.

    Wouldnt selecting more than one character as your target divide out the shards making it easier to hit the exact point you want on a certain character with no waste?
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,313 Site Admin
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    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    @IceIX
    will shard purchasing be replacing the current HFH deals for individual covers, or will they be additional? 
    In addition to.

    DeNappa said:
    Didn't read through the entire thread yet so forgive me if this has been answered already, but what happens with leftover shards once you maxcover/champion a character?

    Suppose you have a 5/2/5 Okoye with say 300 (out of 500) shards towards that 3rd yellow. Then a special store comes up, and you pull a yellow cover directly. Are those 300 shards now wasted?  (If so, that's hardly an improvement)
    Those Shards stick around for Championing the character, or for creating a new copy if that's the way you want to go.
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 976 Critical Contributor
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    Therealsmkspy said:
    At @IceIX,

    I just have to ask, why the decision to make shards character specific? The community already has found the fault it compared to how BHs worked, so why make a system that gives less flexibility than the system already in place?
    I guess 'targeted' says it

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