New Feature in R191: Shards

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  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,290 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I am not going to do the math, but I think this is definitely not as good for a 5* player trying to champ other 5*s and get new 4*s to 10 covers in the most reliable path possible.  Bonusing the 4* and opening tokens was a fairly consistent path for me to make sure the new ones were ready for Shield Training.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
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    LavaManLee said:
    I am not going to do the math, but I think this is definitely not as good for a 5* player trying to champ other 5*s and get new 4*s to 10 covers in the most reliable path possible.  Bonusing the 4* and opening tokens was a fairly consistent path for me to make sure the new ones were ready for Shield Training.
    I think you have to do the math. Until you have metrics you have feelings, and those are wrong a lot. I've attempted it (the math) for myself, and just from pure token-opening out of legendary it's a wash with the current BH system. I can't factor in the supplemental shards we haven't seen yet or the mundane tokens I don't track until such time as we get those details though. 
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
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    IceIX said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Also, I love asking “are feeders ever updating?” and not answering it, despite the fact that it’s a legit question that people have asked a ton on these here official forums over and again.  I don’t know if that was trolling, but if so, well done.  If I was doing PR I wouldn’t mention it at all if I wasn’t going to address it, as it just conjures memories of “no obvious connection” and “special (not special) occasions” 
    It's at the end there, talking about other rewards updates. Feeders are necessarily a part of Champion Rewards since that's how they're handed out. They're coming!
    Tks for this input
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @IceIX
    any chance that Shards will get factored into the daily resupply chain in the in between times where there is currently trivial nothing rewards?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
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    As I think about this feature, I think it surfaces a few things:

    It reinforces that the core mechanic of this game is opening tokens, not matching 3.

    What we're looking at here is shifting the bonus hero mechanic down into individual character XP, not dissimilar from what you'd see in say Pokemon, where you have hundreds (potentialy) of little characters you construct teams out of, who individually progress based on usage. The analogy:
    marking 1 as your "favorite" equates to taking a pokemon into a battle. Pulling tokens equates to getting XP from that battle. Then you eventually "level up" with your cover, and you "evolve" them when they are championed. 

    Given that (at least at the 4 and 5* tiers coming out of legendary) we are starting with a lateral change, this is going to live or die entirely based on the supplemental drop economy of how they get worked into reward trees everywhere. It has potential to be significantly better or largely the same. We really need to see the full picture to judge it.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,631 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There is also the elephant in the room on this - there was mention of changes to Champion rewards due to Shards implementation, the question then becomes would these be additions to existing rewards or in replacement of?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
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    surely they'll be replacements. What I'm curious about is - are full on cover drops from champion rewards turning into shards for a character? or will one of the other between-cover levels of a character turn into shards? I'd trade any of those 50hp levels on a 4* for some shards. It would be super awesome if non-feeding 4*s would start giving out shards towards whoever you have favorited at some of those otherwise meaningless levels, that way your whole roster could funnel into your chosen 5.
  • Jormagund
    Jormagund Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
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    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    surely they'll be replacements. What I'm curious about is - are full on cover drops from champion rewards turning into shards for a character? or will one of the other between-cover levels of a character turn into shards? I'd trade any of those 50hp levels on a 4* for some shards. It would be super awesome if non-feeding 4*s would start giving out shards towards whoever you have favorited at some of those otherwise meaningless levels, that way your whole roster could funnel into your chosen 5.
    I like that idea.  For me the one replacement I would like to see is in the progression rewards in PVE.  Change the covers to character shards and offer 400 4*shards in SCL 7 and then more in SCL 8 and 9 to encourage players to play at a higher level.  Maybe chuck some five star shards in as well with increasing quantities (although I suppose that doesn't work in practice with the current CP final rewards).
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,631 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Those 50HP build up when you are farming 3* and need roster slots. I am pretty much nearly finished Max Champing the 3* tier with some others recycled and on their second build but it is HP draining to do so. I'd rather keep the HP over a 3* shard equivalent.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    PiMacleod said:

    Im not going to do the math.  Im not THAT invested (despite my daily login count).  But i dont see all the doom and gloom.  Yeah, the high five from getting a 3* from standard tokens will be missed... But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.
    Imagine pulling the cover you were working towards to on draw 165 organically.
    So you wasted 165 legendary pulls working on a char that will at the worst case get you ONE champ level.
    Still sounds awesome?
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,724 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Bowgentle said:
    PiMacleod said:

    Im not going to do the math.  Im not THAT invested (despite my daily login count).  But i dont see all the doom and gloom.  Yeah, the high five from getting a 3* from standard tokens will be missed... But i think a new feeling of satisfaction will emerge from watching the bar completely build towards the thing AND COLOR you actually want.
    Imagine pulling the cover you were working towards to on draw 165 organically.
    So you wasted 165 legendary pulls working on a char that will at the worst case get you ONE champ level.
    Still sounds awesome?
    Yep.  One champ level is a LT.

    Or i already have them champed and im doing it for the champed levels.

    Not seeing the issue.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @IceIX

    Thank you for the information.  I have a few targeted questions (pun intended) regarding the features you've given us info on.  I'll bold the questions for easy scanning.

    What happens if a hero doesn't have a targeted selection?  Do those points just disappear?
    I'm a 5* player.  3*s only exist for farming purposes.  I keep a set of fully max champed 3*s for essentials and PVP.  I keep a second set for champ rewards.  I only select 3* Bonus Heroes that will give me, on my next BH, a Latest Legendary Token or a 4* Progression reward.  With nothing selected, when a BH arrives, it will be random and it doesn't matter which 3* it goes to as I can use every single BH that comes in this manner.  
    Will I be forced to keep a 3* Target?  

    Can a 4* character be targeted even if they are not in Tokens?
    Honestly, I have every 4* champed as quickly as possible, if only to make sure SHIELD training is completable.  With a new release of a 4*, let's conservatively say that I can attain 4 covers per release (and not everyone is as fortunate as I am in this regard, so keep that in mind).  This means that I'll need to pull 6 more required 4* covers of the newest 4 in order to participate fully.  Based on the provided chart, I'll need 26.67 Latest Legendary pulls for a single cover times 6 = 160 Latest Legendary Pulls to get a new 4* from 4 to 10 covers before the next SHIELD Training.  This is the equivalent of 4,000 CP.  Of course, with Heroics, this should be less overall, but it is still a tremendous amount of pulls.   It's also a lot of REQUIRED hoarding.

    Why is the target payout for a Classic Token the same as a Latest Token?  
    Being 5 CP cheaper means that 4*s will be quicker to cover in the Classic Store.  Seems like the target rewards should be higher for Latests.  That's a breakdown of requiring 3,333.4 CP for a 5* Target with Classics versus 4,166.75 CP for pulling via Latest.  That's a difference of 833 CP per 5* Target.  That doesn't even take into account the advantages for 4* Targets.

    5* FEEDERS NEED TO BE ESTABLISHED NOW!
    Less of a question and way more of a statement.  Given that it will take 166.67 Latest pulls to level a single 5* target, not having 5* feeder information MONTHS in advance could lead to a lot of frustration.  Currently there are 12 5*s that do not have a 4* feeder assigned.  Let's say, in a real life example, that I have Hela, Rescue, and GE Doom all at 12 covers.  I've had GE Doom as my solo 5* BH for months now.  I've pulled a few classics, 42 Carnage Store LTs, and 257 Latest Legendaries without a single 5*BH (so having a set payout is actually an awesome change for the better for me).  Say, after the system goes live with R191, I start cashing in LTs and CP.  Let's say I cash in 135 LTs worth of rewards over the following month (just throwing out a number here).  That means I'll have 405 points ready and waiting for targeting purposes.  Then right before R192 is released, a feeder for GE Doom is announced. (Hypothetically I know.)  Now I have 405 points that I'm never going to need to use again just sitting there.  That would have been the equivalent of 3,375 CP.  I could have straight up purchased 4 covers at 720 cp a pop at that cost.  It's also a ton of resources to go down the drain when I could have concentrated on Rescue or Hela during that time.  I would much rather target older 5s like Banner, CW Cap, or BSSM (all of which are 5 covers in one color and few if any in other colors, which is why I never had them set to BH).

    Will changes in SHIELD Rank or Champ Rewards be retroactive?
    I'm up to Shield Rank 188.  12 away from the cap (if I remember correctly).  That's a huge hit for vets versus newer players if it's not retroactive.  Same with champ rewards.  I have several max champed 4s.  Again, a bonus for newer players and a hit for vets.

    Thanks for your time and any info you can provide regarding these questions that don't seem to be addressed in your original post nor in subsequent comments/questions.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So I have reread the post and it does look like you can favorite multiple characters like bonus heroes today.  So in 3* land let’s say you have 6 characters favorited what looks like will happen is the shards would evenly distribute between the 6 characters and when they reach the full level you would get the cover for the 3*.  

    This will feel initially like we are getting a lot less bonus heroes at first since we will end up to go dry for a while.  Then we will get a bulk of covers for the favorite heroes since they will all come at once.

    this is defiantly a lateral step with bonus heroes and I hope they will add shards to other non monetary areas of the game quickly so it can be a forward step overall.  I actually think shards for supports could be a strong way to earn bonus levels since it feels improbable I will actually ever get a 5* support.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think people are focusing too much on the number of covers potentially gained in a perfect BH system vs the number of usable covers gained. 

    This system addresses two main complains for most of the players:

    1) bad coverage of characters like 5/10/0
    2) A clear path to the characters that they want to cover.

    While Saved Covers helped somewhat, I suppose many players aren't keen in switching 5 dups for 1 colour of their choices.

    I think this works really well for casual players who don't hoard and aren't concerned with staying on the top.

    The other thing is nothing runs perfectly. Stop living in perfection and you will be happier. So what if you opened X tokens and you got the characters before you hit the required shards? This is life. Nothing falls into place perfectly the way you envisioned it to be.


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