Final Player Level Adjustment *Updated (6/18/19)

Tremayne

@starfall - thanks, now I understand what you mean with lost XP.

I agree that this is a potential problem with the proposed solution for converting mastering to XP/player lvl. However I can’t grasp the ramifications, since the player level system is still a dark horse. Is it correctly perceived that this is only a problem for players with huge collections?

I ask, since if mastering is only a subset of the ways to gain XP in the future and any discrepancies in player levels can be fixed in the matchmaking system, like I seem to recall you advocated after the first or second attempt of converting mastering to XP.

Unknown

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Theros

I'm affected by this problem too. Since the level up fiasco I decided not to level up any card until a better and more fair system is implemented. As it turns out, I should have leveled my cards after all. Its too late before 3.5 for me.
This is madness

Tremayne

@Theros - you may have a point, but since no one knows the dependent systems yet, it is impossible to determine if mastering cards pre v3.5 is good or bad.

Avahad

Sorry- from the original post.........


Every 10 levels after Level 50, players will earn a total of:

• 1 Standard Booster Pack
• 50,000 Mana Runes
• 50 Mana Jewels
• 5 Legacy Booster Packs

At the moment however I’m levelling from over level 100

every level earns me-
 3500 runes (I think- not important enough to pay attention
20 mana crystals
20 mana jewels
1 legacy booster
1 standard booster

not quite sure how the players will earn more jewels is worked out. Unless they  are discounting levelling above 100......

[Deleted User]

I don't like it.
No ones really saying a word? Odd.
Did all the lower mastery players just quit the game?
Do all higher mastery players not care since its not their problem?
Is it because of some "bonuses" associated with higher player lvl?
Well, anyhow...

It seems to benefit higher mastery players and penalizes lower mastery players - its unfair. Don't get me wrong, I admire the work higher mastery players have done but that shouldn't negatively impact lower mastery players.

For lower mastery players, there's going to be an unattainable level gap, which could also suggest unattainable rewards. Feels unfair.

There is a nerf to rewards between the journey from low mastery to high mastery. If it's a permanent nerf, then the mundane rewards from player levels have just gotten longer and more mundane. For below lvl 50 players, this was about the time it started to look somewhat enticing; but now, its most likely much further away? Is this rewards restructuring a one time thing?

I mastered cards naturally but now it feels as though I am being told my play-style was wrong. Can we somehow get a correct, fair system?

Theros

jimpark said:

I don't like it.
No ones really saying a word? Odd.
Did all the lower mastery players just quit the game?
Do all higher mastery players not care since its not their problem?
Is it because of some "bonuses" associated with higher player lvl?
Well, anyhow...

It seems to benefit higher mastery players and penalizes lower mastery players - its unfair. Don't get me wrong, I admire the work higher mastery players have done but that shouldn't negatively impact lower mastery players.

For lower mastery players, there's going to be an unattainable level gap, which could also suggest unattainable rewards. Feels unfair.

There is a nerf to rewards between the journey from low mastery to high mastery. If it's a permanent nerf, then the mundane rewards from player levels have just gotten longer and more mundane. For below lvl 50 players, this was about the time it started to look somewhat enticing; but now, its most likely much further away? Is this rewards restructuring a one time thing?

I mastered cards naturally but now it feels as though I am being told my play-style was wrong. Can we somehow get a correct, fair system?

Player exhaustion is what's is happening; this will explain the radio silence from the community on important issues.
People do not bother anymore except the most passionate.

Mburn7

After thinking this over and reading all of the arguments, rants, reactions, and data I've come to a rather controversial conclusion:    This is fine.

My logic for this is simple:

1)  It affects everyone equally. 

The first level up attempt curved how much XP you got completely arbitrarily, which led to players with vastly different collections and mastery clumped up at the same level.  This was inherently unfair because players who had put in much more time and effort into the game were given the same level as players who had done significantly less, but with much less ability to progress further.

The second attempt just raised every player above a certain arbitrary level to a new arbitrary level.  This was just dumb, since it not only was still arbitrarily clumping players together it removed any leveling progress players had made since the previous system was created, further devaluing our time and effort.

This system, on the other hand, will give every player the same amount of xp per mastered card.  For mono colored cards under the current system it takes 50xp per mastery point, so everyone gets 50xp per mastery point that they have.  Sure that fails to account for multicolor and colorless cards, but everyone will have the same discrepancy when the conversion happens.  It may not be a perfect conversion, but it will achieve the desired effect of separating players based on how many cards they have mastered. 

2)  It gives everyone the same rewards.

The fist level up system gave completely arbitrary rewards based on the completely arbitrary levels players were assigned (see above).  This meant that the lower level a player was starting out at, the more possible rewards they could obtain.  That was obviously very very wrong, and caused a lot of higher-level players to feel robbed and devalued.  The second system made this worse by fast-forwarding players very far ahead but still without rewards, furthering this disconnect and devaluing.

This system, however, will give every player all of the rewards they would have accumulated had they reached their new level from scratch.  There will be no difference in rewards between a player who reached level 90 immediately and a new player who reached level 90 over the span of a year.  Yes the rewards themselves have been slightly reduced, but we are still getting equal compensation for the time we put into the game on mastery.

Overall, I agree that this isn't a perfect system.  I do believe, however, that it will work out to be a perfectly acceptable system in the long run, as the devs eventually get around to the promised "alternate ways of gaining xp" and "high level special rewards" and stuff.

After all the **** that the team has taken over this issue (almost all of it deserved), I think this is a great step in the right direction.  Hopefully it'll get better going forward and the forums can become a fun place to hang out again.

Mark_Tedin

Mburn7 said:

After thinking this over and reading all of the arguments, rants, reactions, and data I've come to a rather controversial conclusion:    This is fine.

After all the tinykitty that the team has taken over this issue (almost all of it deserved), I think this is a great step in the right direction.  Hopefully it'll get better going forward and the forums can become a fun place to hang out again.

I agree. I appreciate the Starfall effort, but I believe the Final Player Level Adjustment is temporarily the fairest solution so far. In addition, this serves the majority of community claims.

Anyway, I hope Starfall's work can help developers in the update.

Unknown

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Mburn7

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

After thinking this over and reading all of the arguments, rants, reactions, and data I've come to a rather controversial conclusion:    This is fine.

My logic for this is simple:

1)  It affects everyone equally.  

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, Mburn, so there's just one thing about your post I'd like to address.

This update does not affect everyone equally; players who master cards after the update will be disadvantaged compared to players who master cards before.

Let me tell you how it affects me. My collection is nearly full now and I have about 80 non-mastered cards, most of them at high rarities, and a number of them of questionable playability. My peers are players like sjechua who have mastered every card in the game. I think it's fair that if I master the same number of cards as him, I should be at the same level, especially at this point in time when card mastery is the only way to gain XP. Even when they introduce other ways of gaining XP, it's unlikely I'll be much better than sjechua at gaining XP... he's a very dedicated player!

My next few weeks are going to be a mad rush of mastering cards, because if I don't master them right now, I won't get as much XP from them as I will in a few weeks time. And trust me, it's hard going mastering cards now that they've increased the number of games needed to master cards in the 3.2 update. I spent all day playing yesterday, mostly in levels which gave me 6XP per card rather than 20XP, and I mastered only a handful of cards and gained about half a level's worth of XP.

It's quite possible I'll miss me deadline and have to master some cards afterwards. sjechua has mastered his cards before, I'll have mastered after. Same number of cards, different XP.

It doesn't affect everyone equally.

I dread to think how much more it will affect players like poor Theros (see earlier in this thread), who, unlike me, stopped mastering cards after the 3.2 update.

Can I ask you, Mburn, are you a player who tried to master all their cards and will therefore be affected my the maximum level cap, or not?

Am I missing something?  A common card gives 2 mastery points and takes 100xp to master.  This update will be giving 50xp per mastery point.  Looks like an equitable conversion to me.  So unless all 80 of your unmastered cards are multicolor or colorless cards, I don't see there being a massive differential in level between you and your favorite example player.  Sure its not perfectly 1:1, and your data shows its a big deal for a brand new player, but for us mid-to-top level players its probably not that major.

And personally?  I mastered every common and non-creature uncommon back before GRN out of boredom, but I am nowhere near the top in terms of mastery or collection.  I'll probably be much more effected by this than you.

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Mburn7

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

After thinking this over and reading all of the arguments, rants, reactions, and data I've come to a rather controversial conclusion:    This is fine.

My logic for this is simple:

1)  It affects everyone equally.  

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, Mburn, so there's just one thing about your post I'd like to address.

This update does not affect everyone equally; players who master cards after the update will be disadvantaged compared to players who master cards before.

Let me tell you how it affects me. My collection is nearly full now and I have about 80 non-mastered cards, most of them at high rarities, and a number of them of questionable playability. My peers are players like sjechua who have mastered every card in the game. I think it's fair that if I master the same number of cards as him, I should be at the same level, especially at this point in time when card mastery is the only way to gain XP. Even when they introduce other ways of gaining XP, it's unlikely I'll be much better than sjechua at gaining XP... he's a very dedicated player!

My next few weeks are going to be a mad rush of mastering cards, because if I don't master them right now, I won't get as much XP from them as I will in a few weeks time. And trust me, it's hard going mastering cards now that they've increased the number of games needed to master cards in the 3.2 update. I spent all day playing yesterday, mostly in levels which gave me 6XP per card rather than 20XP, and I mastered only a handful of cards and gained about half a level's worth of XP.

It's quite possible I'll miss me deadline and have to master some cards afterwards. sjechua has mastered his cards before, I'll have mastered after. Same number of cards, different XP.

It doesn't affect everyone equally.

I dread to think how much more it will affect players like poor Theros (see earlier in this thread), who, unlike me, stopped mastering cards after the 3.2 update.

Can I ask you, Mburn, are you a player who tried to master all their cards and will therefore be affected my the maximum level cap, or not?

Am I missing something?  A common card gives 2 mastery points and takes 100xp to master.  This update will be giving 50xp per mastery point.  Looks like an equitable conversion to me.  So unless all 80 of your unmastered cards are multicolor or colorless cards, I don't see there being a massive differential in level between you and your favorite example player.  Sure its not perfectly 1:1, and your data shows its a big deal for a brand new player, but for us mid-to-top level players its probably not that major.

And personally?  I mastered every common and non-creature uncommon back before GRN out of boredom, but I am nowhere near the top in terms of mastery or collection.  I'll probably be much more effected by this than you.

Well I don't think you're 'missing' anything about my collection, but you're certainly making unwarranted assumptions. Only 8 cards are monocolored cards without XP in them, and the vast majority of them are Mythics or MPs.

Wow, only 8 out of 80 unmastered cards are monocolored?  You are correct I did not anticipate that.  I guess it makes sense since a large chunk of the Ravnica mythic/masterpiece cards are multicolored, but that's still a much different ratio than I expected.

My mistake.

Stalker

If I have to master 1500 cards to not be left out after all I have done to contribute then it will be easy to quit. If the system they implement seems to be fair enough and there is no immediate need to master all my cards then I’ll be happy.
 If they do require all cards mastered then they better have a cheap option to skip that process in the store for the casuals that enjoy real life more. If the pricing structure to do so ends up being like a lot of the other schemes then again, easy to take my money and little free time I have elsewhere.  At this point everything is conjecture and leaving us to rile ourselves up. Many points are warranted but hard to argue not knowing final result of how that experience will be handled.
now depending on what is possibly missed out on will determine if store bought card mastering is ptw or not.

Unknown

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Brigby

Update: We discovered that in order to proceed with this adjustment, there will need to be some changes made to not just the back-end side, but also the client side of the game. We apologize for the brevity between our announcement and the procedure, however in order to successfully implement the player level adjustment, there will need to be a scheduled period of downtime tomorrow. 

Please find the anticipated hours of downtime listed below:

• Start: 6/19/19 03:00 PT / 06:00 ET / 10:00 UTC
• End: 6/19/19 07:00 PT / 10:00 ET / 14:00 UTC

Thank you very much for all of your patience and understanding.

OmegaLolrus

Brigby said:

Update: We discovered that in order to proceed with this adjustment, there will need to be some changes made to not just the back-end side, but also the client side of the game. We apologize for the brevity between our announcement and the procedure, however in order to successfully implement the player level adjustment, there will need to be a scheduled period of downtime tomorrow. 

Please find the anticipated hours of downtime listed below:

• Start: 6/19/19 03:00 PT / 06:00 ET / 10:00 UTC
• End: 6/19/19 07:00 PT / 10:00 ET / 14:00 UTC

Thank you very much for all of your patience and understanding.

Is that going to include the downtime that the client mentioned for 11 UTC tomorrow? Or is that going to be separate and rescheduled.

And would that happen to include the launch for War of the Spark too?

Brigby

OmegaLolrus said:

Brigby said:

Update: We discovered that in order to proceed with this adjustment, there will need to be some changes made to not just the back-end side, but also the client side of the game. We apologize for the brevity between our announcement and the procedure, however in order to successfully implement the player level adjustment, there will need to be a scheduled period of downtime tomorrow. 

Please find the anticipated hours of downtime listed below:

• Start: 6/19/19 03:00 PT / 06:00 ET / 10:00 UTC
• End: 6/19/19 07:00 PT / 10:00 ET / 14:00 UTC

Thank you very much for all of your patience and understanding.

Is that going to include the downtime that the client mentioned for 11 UTC tomorrow? Or is that going to be separate and rescheduled.

And would that happen to include the launch for War of the Spark too?

Womp. This is what I get for not finishing my coffee this morning, and diving into work. I've corrected the time to reflect the recent in-game announcement of 11 UTC to 13 UTC.

As for War of the Spark....it's live! Go download the 3.5 update

ayuready7

Brigby said:

OmegaLolrus said:

Brigby said:

Update: We discovered that in order to proceed with this adjustment, there will need to be some changes made to not just the back-end side, but also the client side of the game. We apologize for the brevity between our announcement and the procedure, however in order to successfully implement the player level adjustment, there will need to be a scheduled period of downtime tomorrow. 

Please find the anticipated hours of downtime listed below:

• Start: 6/19/19 03:00 PT / 06:00 ET / 10:00 UTC
• End: 6/19/19 07:00 PT / 10:00 ET / 14:00 UTC

Thank you very much for all of your patience and understanding.

Is that going to include the downtime that the client mentioned for 11 UTC tomorrow? Or is that going to be separate and rescheduled.

And would that happen to include the launch for War of the Spark too?

Womp. This is what I get for not finishing my coffee this morning, and diving into work. I've corrected the time to reflect the recent in-game announcement of 11 UTC to 13 UTC.

As for War of the Spark....it's live! Go download the 3.5 update

There is no update on apple store.

IM_CARLOS

Well after implementation I am at Lvl. 142 have 196 Mio. Rune, 196K jewels, 220k Orbs and some crystals... Maybe it's time to quit VIP.