To Devs - Marvel puzzle quest or Marvel vs. kitty ?

JSP869

tiomono said:

Yes he will. Alot. His loaner was slowing gritty down effectively. So a champed one that does boardshake and damage on every matched strike will be very good.

Just took my 3/2/3 Sabertooth for a spin in the Shield Simulator with ThorKoye and it worked a treat against Gritty teams, and even Gritty+Bishop teams. Even a Gritty+Medusa team could not outdamage my team, or outheal my damage and the double board shake. He'll be even more fun once he's finished.

jp1

Yes, it was a bit tongue in cheek. Much happier with this solution.

tiomono

JSP869 said:

tiomono said:

Yes he will. Alot. His loaner was slowing gritty down effectively. So a champed one that does boardshake and damage on every matched strike will be very good.

Just took my 3/2/3 Sabertooth for a spin in the Shield Simulator with ThorKoye and it worked a treat against Gritty teams, and even Gritty+Bishop teams. Even a Gritty+Medusa team could not outdamage my team, or outheal my damage and the double board shake. He'll be even more fun once he's finished.

Honestly thorkoye is what was hitting my gritty most often. So adding a third character to the mix that strongly counters gritty is just gravy.

jp1

I’m happy with Sabertooth, but I do think it was a bit of a slap in the face to those Gritty centric rosters to purposely make him ignore the strike tiles. 

I think it was no accident how effective he is with Okoye/Thor...since that is mainly (I’m speculating here) who was making a stink about Gritty.

Personally I have Okoye champed and Black Bolt makes a decent third, so I’m not too salty. If I had only Kitty to lean on I might see it as a small slight/favoritism. Either way he is very manageable defensively which was a good design choice given the climate of response to strong defensive players.

AlexR

jp1 said:

I’m very happy with Sabertooth, but I do think it was a bit of a slap in the face to those Gritty centric rosters to purposely make him ignore the strike tiles. 

I think it was no accident how effective he is with Okoye/Thor...since that is mainly (I’m speculating here) who was making a stink about Gritty.

Personally I have Okoye champed and Black Bolt makes a decent third, so I’m not too salty. If I had only Kitty to lean on I might see it as a small slight/favoritism. Either way he is very manageable defensively which was a good design choice given the climate of response to strong defensive players.

It's not only Thor/Okoye 5* players that complain about Gritty. Gritty is dominating 4* land too. It's less pronounced in normal pvp events when you have access to boosted characters (though there's plenty Kitty there too), but in 4* Sim Gritty reigns supreme. And while there absolutely are 4* teams that can deal with that and you can push through, it's often a gamble-- Kitty runs away with the game very easily. Most 4* players will straight out skip Gritty if they have any other choice. So, 4* counters to Gritty? Very, very appreciated.

Now, is it on purpose that his red plays great with Okoye/Thor? Could be, certainly not impossible, who knows. But the thing is, Sabertooth is not a 5*. Sabertooth is a 4* and Thor/Okoye is not a problem at 4* level. Gritty very much is. So at 4* play, that favouritism is warranted if you're trying to make a 4* Gritty counter. If Sabertooth' red worked with strike tiles, he'd end up making a great team mate to the stuff he's supposed to counter so instead of more variety through counter-play you get less variety because you make the top combo even stronger. You don't make a Gritty counter by making Gritty better. So Sabertooth' great red ignoring strike tiles makes perfect sense.

(Also, making solid Gritty counters for counter-play is a lot preferable to nerfing Kitty or GRocket. Anyone who likes running Gritty should be glad about Sabertooth existing since a solid counter existing that actually works makes it less likely that the nerfhammer drops and murders either Kitty or Grocket. Dealing with a counter existing >>> nerf.)

JSP869

tiomono said:

JSP869 said:

tiomono said:

Yes he will. Alot. His loaner was slowing gritty down effectively. So a champed one that does boardshake and damage on every matched strike will be very good.

Just took my 3/2/3 Sabertooth for a spin in the Shield Simulator with ThorKoye and it worked a treat against Gritty teams, and even Gritty+Bishop teams. Even a Gritty+Medusa team could not outdamage my team, or outheal my damage and the double board shake. He'll be even more fun once he's finished.

Honestly thorkoye is what was hitting my gritty most often. So adding a third character to the mix that strongly counters gritty is just gravy.

ThorKoye is strong on offensive, but not so great on defense. They're very easy to beat if you know what you're doing, and most 5* players clearly do know how to beat them, given how often my ThorKoye team gets clobbered

That's what I like about Sabertooth's addition to the game. Nobody has been nerfed. Gritty+Bishop are still a very strong offensive team, but now, just like ThorKoye, they may not be so horrific to fight on defense, at least not against someone running ThorKoye+Sabertooth.

And that's why I love that Sabertooth was added as a 4* and not as a 5*. Had he been a 5*, it would have taken me a very long time to finish him. As a 4*, I should have him Championed within 4-6 weeks.

tiomono

JSP869 said:

tiomono said:

JSP869 said:

tiomono said:

Yes he will. Alot. His loaner was slowing gritty down effectively. So a champed one that does boardshake and damage on every matched strike will be very good.

Just took my 3/2/3 Sabertooth for a spin in the Shield Simulator with ThorKoye and it worked a treat against Gritty teams, and even Gritty+Bishop teams. Even a Gritty+Medusa team could not outdamage my team, or outheal my damage and the double board shake. He'll be even more fun once he's finished.

Honestly thorkoye is what was hitting my gritty most often. So adding a third character to the mix that strongly counters gritty is just gravy.

ThorKoye is strong on offensive, but not so great on defense. They're very easy to beat if you know what you're doing, and most 5* players clearly do know how to beat them, given how often my ThorKoye team gets clobbered

That's what I like about Sabertooth's addition to the game. Nobody has been nerfed. Gritty+Bishop are still a very strong offensive team, but now, just like ThorKoye, they may not be so horrific to fight on defense, at least not against someone running ThorKoye+Sabertooth.

And that's why I love that Sabertooth was added as a 4* and not as a 5*. Had he been a 5*, it would have taken me a very long time to finish him. As a 4*, I should have him Championed within 4-6 weeks.

Out of curiosity, does your thorkoye struggle vs gritty? I really do not get many defensive wins with gritty, but I too get clobbered.

I actually will hit grittyshop teams with gritty plus blacksuit. But the team I get beat the most by is thorkoye. So I assume they are decent against gritty even without sabretooth.

I dont have a champed thor or okoye. But I was able to beat lvl 460 gritties with the loaner sabretooth and my undercovered lowleveled thorkoye. So I am curious how an actual champed thorkoye fairs.

JSP869

ThorKoye against Gritty is not that bad. You just need to target Kitty and focus on destroying the Strike tiles whenever possible while ensuring Okoye tanks so half-Thor can do his thing without getting KO'd. Things do go south if you can't match away the Strikes quick enough and don't get the Yellow to heal Okoye, but if you can get Green and Red, it's game over (for them).

Gritty+Bishop is a lot tougher though, for obvious reasons. Sabertooth helps fix that

formula11

Everyone saying thorkoye+sabertooth that's fine for Sim what about pvp where you only pic two characters, sabertooth +? Thor .5 or okoye or ?

jp1

Okoye + Sabertooth would be the obvious choice when dealing with Gritty teams.

tiomono

If it's just gritty thorkoye is fairly good. Or black suit spidey if you have him.

chrisH

I'll be honest I have not had any interest in the past two seasons of PVP due to nothing but Gritty teams and losing interest in the game overall, and I have a champed Kitty and Rocket. So many people want to swing the nerf bat at Kitty but she's not the problem Rocket is. Her power to buff tiles is a snowball effect but should require some effort to get that snowball rolling. 

Here is what I would propose to fix the issue. 

Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2) OLD
(PASSIVE) Welcome to the frickin' Guardians of the Galaxy.  At the start of the battle create 3 strength 51 Strike tiles.  If there is another member of the Guardians of the Galaxy on their team create strength 79 tiles instead.

Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2) New
(PASSIVE) Welcome to the frickin' Guardians of the Galaxy.  At the start of the battle create 3 strength 51 Strike tiles.  If there is another member of the Guardians of the Galaxy on their team create strength 79 tiles instead. Nobody touches rockets toys... Nobody. These strike tiles may not be increased or reduced by other characters.

This is just a change to Rocket to allow no powers friendly or otherwise to affect his starting tiles. It buffs him against powers sets like BSSM and Kraven that reduce the value of these tiles. But also doesn't allow kitty to get so far out of hand so quickly with them at the start of the game.

AlexR

You just extremely badly nerfed Kraven. Countering GRocket is 50% of his reason for existing (the other 50% is countering Carnage.)

Would your change gently disrupt the Kitty-GRocket synergy? Probably, yeah. But I really wished people would stop trying to suggest gentle nerfs. People suggest gentle nerfs and then say "please nerf", but that's never what ends up happening-- if we get a nerf, it's usually very harsh. We're collectively setting ourselves up for a rude awakening with these gentle nerf suggestions.

tiomono

Straycat said:

I think they would be better off making new stores based on the existing counters. Best 5* gritty counter is BSSM, Daredevil, or maybe Rescue. (or your own kitty) Put them in a store together. BSSM and Daredevil actually have decent synergy too, so pairing them against gritty could be a nice option if people had access to them. 
Creating specific hard counters I think in general are a bad idea. Characters should be somewhat usable with any pairing or enemy, hard counters just limit that. 

People have as much access to daredevil and bssm as they do kitty. All 3 have been in stores offering 3 characters after they have been out of latest tokens. 

spidyjedi84

They have never done a gentle nerf in any character they've nerfed. All of those characters are virtually unplayable in their forms to provide win conditions for that player. They won't do a soft nerf to this grouping, either.
Everyone complaining and beating the nerf hammer, remember how many dedicated longtime players you're going to piss off and leave this game. I've spent a good deal of money in this game, and if they nerf Grocket, I'm done. I'm not going back to more than an hour of playtime a day to just eke out progression rewards. It's not worth it.
There is always going to be a meta in the game, and they've given plenty of counters to the characters. I''m getting very tired of the drumbeats of "nerf these guys so my team can be the dominate team in the game."

Spudgutter

Seriously, why is this it's own thread?  There is already a thread on this very topic going on.  

Why do people continue to keep suggesting nerfs that won't happen?

randomhero1090

I really enjoyed hunting Gritty teams in the Sabretooth PVP, that's for sure.  Sabre's red with Thorokoye was overkill.

formula11

Just change the amount of strikes to 5 w/210 strength  instead of 7 at 150 strength. Just as strong total strength. Two match's vs four to stop Kitty from going crazy.

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Gritty - nerf, or counter?.

Brigby

*Merged similar thread topics together