Long-Time Veterans - Player Level Adjustment (4/22/19)

Tremayne

starfall said:

Tremayne said:

Fiddler said:

The irony of this is that the color mastery points on my profile are incorrect. They have been for years. I've had two support tickets raised but nothing was ever resolved. Oddly enough the difference used to be 2,500 points exactly (500 for each color). With 3.9 or around there that started changing and toady I am 2,184 points behind. With a profile total currently 13,429 that means I was bumped to level 90 today rather than level 100.  Not that it matters to me.

I checked my mastering points and my numbers are so much off I must be a mistaken.

Color mastery levels at the time of the 3.2 update have been used, not your current color mastery levels. If you have mastered cards since 3.2, that XP and color mastery has been lost.

Brigby said:

Player Level Adjustments for Long-Time, High Color Mastery Veterans
Any player that had a total Color Mastery higher than 5,000 at the time of the 3.2 release will fall under this Long Time, High Color Mastery Veteran category. We then created sub-categories within this grouping, based on the the range of Color Mastery values these veterans had. 

@starfall  - I understand that my conversion is based upon the v3.2 stats


However Fiddler claims the there is a fundamental error in mastering points that expounds the issues with the conversion. My current in app mastering points does not match to my calculations on paper. It is possible that I’m missing 400-500 points in each colour so my conversion is skewed.

That is why I’m asking if the numbers in the formula above is correct.

Mburn7

Tremayne said:

Fiddler said:

The irony of this is that the color mastery points on my profile are incorrect. They have been for years. I've had two support tickets raised but nothing was ever resolved. Oddly enough the difference used to be 2,500 points exactly (500 for each color). With 3.9 or around there that started changing and toady I am 2,184 points behind. With a profile total currently 13,429 that means I was bumped to level 90 today rather than level 100.  Not that it matters to me.

I checked my mastering points and my numbers are so much off I must be a mistaken.

2 points for mastered common cards
+ 4 points for mastered uncommon cards
+ 8 points for mastered Rare cards
+ 16 points for mastered Mythic and MP cards
(colourless cards earns half points)

this formula results in a discrepancy of 400-500 points in every colour. Does multi-colour cards give less points in each colour?

Looks correct for me.  Multi-Color should give full points in all of their colors, Colorless gives half points to all 5 colors (sidebar:  you British?  I find alternate spellings of simple words amusing for some reason)

Laeuftbeidir

You know, if we actually had an idea where you want to go with this.. But the more I think about it, the more I'm impressed by how much energy was wasted to develop something like... This.

You don't have a problem within the system, the system is the problem. And maybe you already have the perfect solution within you concept (if you have one), then I'd be impressed how bad your idea is communicated. Best start all over again and then talk about what you plan to do before it's too late.

Tremayne

@Mburn7 - thank you. Then I’m missing quite a lot of points which could have moved me from level 90 to 100, however I do not have the v3.2 numbers available. The end result is that somehow the app can’t calculate the correct mastering points. I should be over 3k in blue and red but I’m only at 2600 +- 50. Sigh.

No, I’m a Dane but apparently my English is a bit of a mix of American and British, must be the American books and movies that have impacted my schooling English plus a little autocorrect. 😄

Tilwin90

Wait, so I just became level 80 out of nowhere which naturally made my life more difficult, WITHOUT the associated rewards? What?!

IM_CARLOS

I jumped up over 50 lvl. No rewards. 

I would say this is a long term plan to implementthis feature at minimum cost (rewards). Keep the runes and the legacy cards, but what about the jewels. I still miss 28 MP!

I still feeling sick bout this game. No ideas and if so, the terrible implementation!

Dodecapod

Just to summarize the net effect of the current implementation of player levels as far as I can understand (any clarification if this is incorrect would be greatly appreciated):

1.  Between v3.2 and this update, the optimal method of maximizing player level (and level rewards) would have been to master as few cards as possible prior to v3.2 and to master as many as possible between v3.2 and this update.

2.  As of this update, the optimal method of maximizing player level (and level rewards) is to have mastered as few cards as possible between v3.2 and this update and to master as many as possible going forward; the new stair-step at 80 may change this somewhat, but at a glance, it seems mastering as few cards as possible prior to v3.2 is still optimal.

3.  There are two non-negotiable design features of the player profile system that players on this and other threads (myself included) do not understand the rationale for:

(a) level-up costs must cap out (seemingly at 6500 currently, but the exact number is less important than the existence of a cap)

(b) Retroactive progress rewards for a fixed mastery total must be less than future progress rewards for the same mastery total, i.e. the time frame when a player gains (or gained) mastery must impact their player level separately from the amount of mastery.

My essential question if all of the above is accurate would be:  why is it important for future matchmaking that mastering a common (or an uncommon, or a rare, etc.) a year ago be worth less than mastering a common a month ago, and why is it important that mastering a common a month ago be worth less than mastering a common now?  

That’s the end result of the one-time conversion currently, and while going forward, it’s not impossible to conceive of a matchmaking system in which the timing of mastery might matter, any explanation of the concept or nuances would help immensely with grasping the overall vision Oktagon has for the player profile system in both the immediate future and in the long run.

Froggy

This is a gross mishandling of your key player base D3... Shame on you!

KageTora

I wouldn't have considered myself a "veteran" before this. I've been playing for around a year and, after getting myself to platinum, I only mastered whatever cards I played with, making no effort whatsoever to master them.

The only time I willingly attempted to gain experience was when I was close to leveling up to an even number, meaning a card reward. At the moment, I sit at 746 cards mastered.

Yesterday, I was a few hundred exp from level 44. Today, when I logged in, I found myself ar level 80. I honestly think this is highly unfair for people who hand worked their butts off through the years to master their cards, only to get screwed over now.

Why cant the level simply be calculated EXACTLY by one's mastered cards  instead of some randomly arbitrary number no one actually understands where it comes from?

Yet another blatant example of Oktagon's lack of communication, lack of transparency and utter disregard for their most loyal, community-building members.

Oh, also... Where are my 36 levels worth of rewards? I DEFINITELY want those. 

Larz70

@Brigby, I honestly don't care whether I'm level 40, 80 or 120 since player level currently, does not have a function except maybe for bragging rights.  But since 3.2 dropped, I have been mastering cards because I like the rewards that come with it.  Like @KageTora
I was very close to leveling up (level 46 for me) but now, I'm level 80 with an XP bar of zero.  Going from 40 to 80 means nothing to me, but losing the XP I accumulated so I can level up to 46 stings.  That's about 1-2 weeks of grinding for XP down the drain for me.  I don't need to get all the rewards from 47 - 80 but I think I deserve to get the level 46 reward don't you think?  If our XP bars can be restored at least to where it was before the update, then I'll be satisfied.  

Aeroplane

Larz70 said:

@Brigby, I honestly don't care whether I'm level 40, 80 or 120 since player level currently, does not have a function except maybe for bragging rights.  But since 3.2 dropped, I have been mastering cards because I like the rewards that come with it.  Like @KageTora
I was very close to leveling up (level 46 for me) but now, I'm level 80 with an XP bar of zero.  Going from 40 to 80 means nothing to me, but losing the XP I accumulated so I can level up to 46 stings.  That's about 1-2 weeks of grinding for XP down the drain for me.  I don't need to get all the rewards from 47 - 80 but I think I deserve to get the level 46 reward don't you think?  If our XP bars can be restored at least to where it was before the update, then I'll be satisfied.  

I believe this is the only drawback from this update other than being confusing and unnecessary. If each level does not increase in xp then it doesn't matter if you are at 40 or 80. If the rewards increase with higher levels than its a bonus to receive higher rewards for less work.

Gabrosin

Aeroplane said:

Larz70 said:

@Brigby, I honestly don't care whether I'm level 40, 80 or 120 since player level currently, does not have a function except maybe for bragging rights.  But since 3.2 dropped, I have been mastering cards because I like the rewards that come with it.  Like @KageTora
I was very close to leveling up (level 46 for me) but now, I'm level 80 with an XP bar of zero.  Going from 40 to 80 means nothing to me, but losing the XP I accumulated so I can level up to 46 stings.  That's about 1-2 weeks of grinding for XP down the drain for me.  I don't need to get all the rewards from 47 - 80 but I think I deserve to get the level 46 reward don't you think?  If our XP bars can be restored at least to where it was before the update, then I'll be satisfied.  

I believe this is the only drawback from this update other than being confusing and unnecessary. If each level does not increase in xp then it doesn't matter if you are at 40 or 80. If the rewards increase with higher levels than its a bonus to receive higher rewards for less work.

Except that those with large amounts of mastered cards weren't credited with rewards or levels for them when the system was introduced, and are now credited with levels for them (inconsistently) but not rewards.  In neither system can they get full value for the time they spent doing the mastering, nor is there an option to re-master those cards; their potential value is lost forever.  If Starfall is supposed to be level 137 but is instead level 90 with only 50 levels of rewards, then how is this an adequate solution?

Aeroplane

Gabrosin said:

Aeroplane said:

Larz70 said:

@Brigby, I honestly don't care whether I'm level 40, 80 or 120 since player level currently, does not have a function except maybe for bragging rights.  But since 3.2 dropped, I have been mastering cards because I like the rewards that come with it.  Like @KageTora
I was very close to leveling up (level 46 for me) but now, I'm level 80 with an XP bar of zero.  Going from 40 to 80 means nothing to me, but losing the XP I accumulated so I can level up to 46 stings.  That's about 1-2 weeks of grinding for XP down the drain for me.  I don't need to get all the rewards from 47 - 80 but I think I deserve to get the level 46 reward don't you think?  If our XP bars can be restored at least to where it was before the update, then I'll be satisfied.  

I believe this is the only drawback from this update other than being confusing and unnecessary. If each level does not increase in xp then it doesn't matter if you are at 40 or 80. If the rewards increase with higher levels than its a bonus to receive higher rewards for less work.

Except that those with large amounts of mastered cards weren't credited with rewards or levels for them when the system was introduced, and are now credited with levels for them (inconsistently) but not rewards.  In neither system can they get full value for the time they spent doing the mastering, nor is there an option to re-master those cards; their potential value is lost forever.  If Starfall is supposed to be level 137 but is instead level 90 with only 50 levels of rewards, then how is this an adequate solution?

Well, If this was a response to the first update , I don't think they're willing to give out all those rewards and I can't see any further changes. Personally, I never took much stock in mastering cards as there was no benefit and I still don't as there has been an uptick in content recently to bother playing inferior cards. And if you're a veteran in a high coalition you should be at a point where you don't need to spend any more money at this game if you have the pattern down. The game is pretty generous to begin with once you hit higher levels so I can't complain about some rewards that I didn't expect to get. Sometimes life is unfair , but its balances out overall.

Brakkis

Okay, having taken the time to sit back and do some maths, here's why this "solution" is bad.

1. First things first; this entire arbitrary calculation failed to account for something

• Any player of a significant enough mastery to be considered a Veteran by this is feasibly Platinum in all 5 colors. That means that this calculation failed to account for the 500 Mastery in every color not shown in Platinum. 
• That's right, because each time you rank up in Mastery, it resets back to 0 for the next level. Each color requires 500 points worth of Mastery to reach Platinum as you progress from Bronze to Silver, from Silver to Gold, and from Gold to Platinum.
• That's an additional 2500 Mastery to be added to this calculation that wasn't. (Example - I'd have been in the next category up, had it been included)

2. It punished veterans who actively mastered cards after the 3.2 patch by not accounting for any of the mastery points gained since then. The more cards you mastered in these past 7 weeks, the worse off you are in the current situation.

3. The experience situation is abysmal. This didn't solve anything. The solution is to give out every player's full experience; no curve, no arbitrary number based on the total mastery points a player has, etc.

• As of right now, I have 2288 cards with 2068 mastered.

-- Commons: 781 Owned, 734 Mastered
 --- 734 * 100 = 73,400
-- Uncommons: 764 Owned, 719 Mastered
 --- 719 * 200 = 143,800
-- Rares: 522 Owned, 426 Mastered
 --- 426 * 400 = 170,400
-- Mythics: 204 Owned, 174 Mastered
 --- 174 * 800 = 139,200
-- Masterpieces: 17 Owned, 15 Mastered
 --- 15 * 800 = 12,000

Total Experience - 538,800

Level I should be - Level 111 with 5500 experience towards 112

Where your system placed me - Level 90

• What about the experience I could still earn if I mastered my remaining cards? That's 77,700. That would put me at Level 101 with 6200 experience towards 102.

• Were I somehow able to acquire all of the remaining cards in the game and master them, that would put me at Level 132 with 4100 experience towards 133. 

• Given that the experience necessary to level is capped at 6500 for every level beyond 41, I would gain those same 31 additional levels whether I was at 90 or 111. Thus, I am forever positioned 21 levels below what any new player could, in time, achieve with the same cards.

• Your new experience gaining systems will not change this. This is a permanent effect of your poor system design.

4. The rewards were initially not the biggest issue. They were a concession because the levels were the bigger problem that needed to be fixed and properly implemented. However, they were a concession mostly because even though we got screwed out of our rightful levels, we at least got some of the rewards in the form of a lump sum. Now we've been boosted up by the same amount of levels or even more for some, with none of the rewards at all.

Let's say with the release of 3.2, you logged in and were placed at Level 40.

 - You got 30000 Runes, 400 Crystals, 30 Jewels, 3 Legacy Packs, 3 Origins Packs, and 3 GRN Packs

If you progressed to 40 naturally

 - You got 78000 Runes, 375 Crystals, 40 Jewels, 8 Legacy Packs, 2 Legacy Cards, 5 Legacy Rares, and 5 Origins Packs

Not the greatest conversion but it was close enough to not be a significant loss in any respect which is why we were so blasé about it. 

However, from 40 to 80 (the last known level achieved prior to this update)

- You gain 101600 Runes, 400 Crystals, 80 Jewels, 12 Legacy Packs, and 7 Standard Packs

All of that was left out by this update. Not even a lump sum was rewarded. That's a significant chunk you just took away from your veteran players while claiming this update was for them. That's not even accounting for the levels beyond 80 with some players, myself included, being placed higher than that.


You have no legitimate reason for keeping to this chosen system. You have reasons, but they are not legitimate ones. You refuse to except the fallacy of your design and are steadfastly ignoring your players spelling out for you, in excruciating detail, why the design is flawed. This is some of the poorest customer relations I have ever witnessed from a producer and a developer.

Your actions are coming across as worse than EA. They are greedy, while this is an example of bullheaded laziness.

[Deleted User]

Well.. that blew up really fast.. 

I think theres an EXP level cap of 6500 per lvl because this game intends to keep adding sets as they roll out. If an EXP cap was not implemented and the per lvl the EXP required increased.. well, eventually it would become the craziest grind and then eventually hit "near impossible". Therefore, I do believe there needs to be some sort of cap.. eventually. Was lvl 40 the right choice? I have no idea. And this assumes the game survives the current multi-faceted turmoil it is in.. 

P.S. Honestly, I dont know much about the player profile lvl at all. Do I have hopes for the system? Yes. Like matchmaking, lvl rewards, add-on rewards features, possible limited PvP, etc. Yet with my limited knowledge on the lvl system, with my tremeduous lack of information (from D3), with my severely waning interest in this game, and with my near non-existent interest in the lvl system; even I can see that the system is all sorts of messed up because it did something that feels ethically and morally wrong on a fundamental level. 

[Deleted User]

This is so funny because its amazing the amount of work you guys ended up creating by implementing something prematurely and then going and fixing it... prematurely... twice. 

Im sure we can agree the lvl rewards are pretty pitiful when you lvl up one lvl at a time that it severely needs a change.. but now that can't be done until everyone's lvl is properly fixed and the appropriate rewards are given. But even this has become a huge chore because you have multiple iterations of player lvls and rewards all graded on some sort of curve. In addition to the varying number of players who went and mastered cards after any one of the fixes... not to mention the exp bug for certain events, etc. So now, you have a big snowball mixed with mud, rocks, and other foreign materials that you need to filter, reorganize, and correct to make that snowman..

Good luck D3Go and Oktagon.

[Deleted User]

I feel like the player lvl system should have no lvl cap.

New sets/cards will continually be added. Is there a reason you need to cap this? Do you plan on readjusting the player lvl cap every single time new sets/cards are added? Feels like a lot of work.. 

It seems you want a specific range of player lvls to bracket them in... STOP, use percentages. 

It seems there are hard limits to your player max lvls so that you can keep that set-in-stone and re-use those set ranges for other things like matchmaking and whatever else. Eventually... this system will need an update in the future... then with that update you will have change everything that used that archiac set-in-stone ranges. Why not use percentages? Simply put, top 10-20% of player lvls face off. And then add in little rules/exceptions. Feels like less trouble in the long run... 

Do not curve the player levels or rewards. 

Just make it flat out simple and easy - something linear. Something anyone can just add up without some complex curve formula. New player masters a common and gets 100 EXP. Veteran player masters a common and gets 100 EXP. Give them the same thing whether they mastered it 3 years ago, after the player profile update, after the 1st fix, or after the 2nd fix. Make it the same. Then brace yourself! This is going to be tricky! Give them the same rewards correlated to their player lvl/exp (lump-sum or not, it should all be the same - stop skimping). *gasp. 

Am i missing something? Is the solution not this simple? Well, it is not simple anymore cause they have to go and undo their complex curve math.. so okay, little more difficult. 

IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ: I dont think they should give any rewards with the most recent update until they fix the entire system. I fear something will become another variable or thing they have to fix... again. And from that will stem more discrimination and inequality. But they should definitely give the rewards! ...just when its more stable and less likely to be bugged... *sigh

Just my opinion.