Loop Prevention System - More Details *Updated (3/12/19)

Phreaker

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone,

With the announcement of the Loop Prevention System being implemented in the upcoming 3.3 build, players had many questions about how it will affect their games; specifically their combo decks. Oktagon was kind enough to take some time to break down and explain exactly how the Loop Prevention System works in its entirely. Check it out below:

The team has also provided an example video which everyone can take a look at below. Please note that this one single player turn has taken up almost 60 seconds-worth of time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYfo7U_ws7o&feature=youtu.be
We hope this explanation is insightful and helpful for players! Thank you for your patience and understanding, and we hope you enjoy the upcoming 3.3 update!

Brigby:

Can we get the same video with one of the worst cases:

1. Level 60 Huatli Radiant Champion with her 1st ability cast, and reenforced.
2. Path of Discovery cast, and reenforced.
3. 6 cards full of March of the Multitudes.

If you REALLY want to make the point:

Have an 11x reenforced Lifelinked Solider to start the turn.  (Cast a fully powered March the turn before.)

I don't believe the above draw is a loopy draw.  If it is, I'd like to understand why.

(Edits to make things more clear.  No content change.)

Julie71

I personally played a loop deck in training ground.  One of my turns was definitely longer than the 18 second allowance.  Decks is sunbird/March combo.  While I do not know the impact yet of how this will effect us. I'm unwilling to lose valuable players, because of it.  If our voices are heard and I hope that they are,. Shut this down before they even install it. 
 

Dologan

I'm so flabbergasted and outraged I can't even sleep...

So I just want to make this clear: The video shows how the "Loop Prevention System" BREAKS BASIC MATH (4 × 12 != 48). On a simple hand with NO LOOPS WHATSOEVER.

Remember that thread about "skillful play"? Well, I'm pretty sure being able to reliably predict the outcome of predictable hands is a basic precondition for that, AND YOU JUST MADE THAT IMPOSSIBLE.

ZW2007-

This is so good. The new 3.3 update is bringing the much needed loop prevention system along with the much anticipated RNA(D) - Really Not Another Dime.

I've heard of shooting oneself in the foot, then there's the opposite end of the spectrum which isn't forum friendly. I'll say this is more of a gut-shot. One that leads to a long, drawn out, incredibly painful death. Oh M:tG-PQ, how I loved thee. Such is the fate of a torrid love affair I suppose. I can tell you one person you'll be making happy with this update, my wife.

madwren

Thanks for the video and explanation......

...but that isn't a loop.  It didn't even have card draw, ramp, or hand effects.  If you're going to the trouble of making a video, please demonstrate an actual loop. A Standard one was provided a few posts ago. Another would be, for example, a stereotypical Part the Waterveil deck, such as:

Part the Waterveil

Prism Array
Whir of Invention
Nissa's Renewal
Seasons Past
Ulvenwald Hydra
Rishkar's Expertise
Hour of Promise
Blue Sun's Zenith
Beacon Bolt

We want to see how those actual looping decks interact with the new system.

bobby_2613

Well thank you OktoGONE. You just saved me some cash cause I wanted to spend some to get new cards. From now on... No more spending from me.
(For the time I'll still have fun with this game which might be very short time with all this tinykitty system)

knifelheim

I don't understand how this is supposed to make us feel better about this system. You just perfectly demonstrated that there is not even enough time to cast 4 cards before the timer runs out and ends your turn prematurely. You do realize we can have up to 6 cards in our hands at one time, not including any additional cards we might draw due effects?

GrizzoMtGPQ

@Brigby push the release back. LPS is not working and is not wanted.

Dologan

madwren said:

We want to see how those actual looping decks interact with the new system.

Do we, really? This video made it pretty clear how ridiculously crippling the system is on a hand that isn't even a loop, or full for that matter. Do you really need to see more than that? It's actually the perfect video to highlight the sheer idiocy of the move.

Aeroplane

This isn't a loop prevention update , but a mass nerf of cards. Extra swap cards, draw cards , orb changers , combo cards , creatures with summoning effects....etc. This has nothing to do about loops, only leveling the field for Greg.

souki12

I wanted to wait and try for myself. I was hoping that the devs and the testers (if there are any) can't be that ignorant. I don't have to wait anymore. This is nothing else but a disaster. This is not a loop prevention system, this is a play prevention system.

You have killed the game for many, Oktagon, but you still have the power to resurrect it. The sooner you get rid of the timer, the better.

FindingHeart8

Wait so this loops timer isnt even going to speed up mass token generations?

It's just a straightforward nerf to our best combo cards and strategies.  18 seconds is hardly enough time to get a combo off the ground.

Way to scare us all back into being Free to Play players, Octagon.

ayuready7

Loop Prevention System will kill the game.

MtgPQPro

@Brigby the timer is a fine idea.  The issue is it stops our combos already in progress.  Just stop ALL animations after 18 seconds.  We still make decisions when needed after that time.  To prevent infinite loops just limit each turn to 10,000 actions (or a crazy #).  Since there are no animations at that point it would only add a few seconds

The issue is you are limiting our deck possibilities to prevent a negligible issue.  Just remove the animation at a certain point, they are annoying after a while anyway.

Love the game!  I hate to see something your team worked really hard on to blow up and erode long term trust.  I have confidamce your team will find a solution that makes the game better long term. 

Theros

Why is octagon doubling down on this flaw?
Octagon is indeed out of touch with the community and the game itself despite having intentions. By this time, octagon and the community should have been on the same page. Octagon has failed to deliver to understand our real needs such as token/ability/card effects animation, coalition events  and others.
Past mishaps,  lack of communication and now this is too much ongoing  hurt.

Dropspot

By this post now we can't even save fully charged spells to cast then together because we could run out of time before we are able to cast everything we saved.

One of the fundamental skills to play this game is saving cards charged and playing it on the right time. Now we can't do that anymore.

This game in broken, in is unthinkable. You are changing basic principles of the game in the name of preventing something that isn't a threat at all.

Please reconsider the LPS. It not only prevents loops it prevents the game to be correctly played. This is nonsense.

Even more nonsense as that we have to argue this is going to break the game, a change so drastically as that shouldn't have passed the simplest QA tests.

Anyone who have played this game past a few weeks understands that you need to have cards charged in hand.

Ampersand

NO ONE WANTED THIS FIX. This is a solution in search of a problem, and it will destroy this game. This "Loop Prevention System" is more like a "Fun and Creativity Prevention System." It will defeat one of the core appeals of this game - combos. 

MTG & MTGPQ are appealing to players PRECISELY BECAUSE we get to tinker with cards to build machines. We set up the machine by building decks where the cards interact with each other in fun and interesting ways. In fact, the whole Level/Mastery system ENCOURAGES players to tinker and find fund and interesting new combos. 

With this "Solution" we now will be disincentivized from discovering new combos. We will be punished not for creating infinite loops (which were truly few and far between in ACTUAL GAMEPLAY) but for trying to hit objectives. We will no longer be able to count on the cards in our hand to cast consistently - your video of 4 fully charged March of the Multitudes demonstrated this!!!!  & that's not even a loop!

This SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM is going to destroy this game. Delay the release if you have to. Fix this or you are going to see a mass exodus from this game. 


NO ONE WANTS THIS.

ZW2007-

Wait a minute, I bet this is just a simple language barrier misunderstanding. Anyone on here speak Portuguese? 

Ampersand

Also - do you see how many players (some long time and TOP-TIER) finally creating forum accounts to share how upset they are with this? Does that mean anything to you? I was on the "wait and see" side, but this is just a terrible car crash of a development idea. NO ONE WANTS THIS. WALK IT BACK.

ZW2007-

The fact that there still isn't a thread comparing RNA to the initial release of XLN goes to show that this LPS nonsense is a pretty big **** problem.