Loop Prevention System - More Details *Updated (3/12/19)

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IM_CARLOS

The video just show how narrow minded the developers/game"designers" are. They just show the comboesque turn that come in mind... So it must work for everything else.

//Removed Insult -Brigby

Mark_Tedin

Brigby said:

The LPS acts once per step in four different steps, each with their own time limit (18s each).

1. At the beginning of the turn (where “At the beginning of your turn” effects takes place), such as many converters or some gem destroyers. Once these effects end, the player can make the first Swap;
2. No timer is active before a Swap is made. After the Swap, the casting step comes along. It’s here where the cards are cast and most of the effects are triggered. Gaining Extra Swaps can prolong this step, but gives diminishing time after each additional Extra Swap, if they are within the same turn.
3. When creatures attack (combat step) and some special effects take place, another timer runs. If the timer would end during this step, creatures will still attack normally but their triggered/delayed effects will not trigger;
4. Then there’s the last individual timer, at the end of the turn, when most of the discard and destruction effects trigger and some temporary attribute changes end.

This will ruin our experience with the game. Please stop this while you still have time. It's an announced tragedy! The more you explain the worse it gets.

Listen to your player base !!!

nerdstrap

YOU CANT EXPLAIN AWAY A BAD DESIGN.

They probably think the Earth is flat

nerdstrap

If I hold spells in my hand to meet an objective and then cast them all on the same turn I will likely lose most of the effects... DUMB DUMB DUMB

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IM_CARLOS

starfall said:

If they follow the playbook from the XP system in update 3.2, we'll probably get 2 weeks of radio silence now, and then they'll explain to us why we're all wrong about the timer again.

I will answer with cash silence in that case. 

Froggy

That’s just TERRIBLE design. Like - awful!

But above all things, THIS is my biggest irritation:

”If there’s an extra match, the timer stops, adding a little more time, but doesn’t reset, since the game is still in the casting step. If the automated actions pass the time limit, the step will end and start the next one - the step, not the turn. The combat step then starts and runs normally, until its countdown ends. The same happens for the end actions at the end of the turn.”

So this is not a Loop Prevention System at all! That’s just the name branding of something that IS in fact meta warping.

Sorry, but in Sparta they would have a line for it:

”This is MADNESS!!”

Jokes aside, you seriously gotta be kidding. Do away with this train wreck of an idea. Save yourselves the trouble.

Gabrosin

I've been in the "let's not overreact, let's wait and see" camp with regards to the timer implementation, but I'm gonna add my voice to the chorus here.  This is a bad idea.  This is going to thwart a lot of regular decks and drastically devalue a lot of good cards.  It's going to be insanely frustrating to lose matches that would otherwise have been won because a timer cut off our interactions; it's going to be painful to have to spend more time slogging through daily events like Training Grounds and Trial of the Planes because we can no longer bring our most powerful creations to them.  Perhaps this will be good for players with less defined collections, but for those who have devoted the time and resources to obtaining most of the cards, this... really sucks.

I strongly suggest that the timer, rather than stop a turn immediately, simply makes available a button labeled "End Phase".  If pressed, the player can then put a halt to their ongoing actions and proceed to the next extra swap, or to combat, or to the end of the turn.  If unpressed, let things continue as they normally would.

This would address the actual problem that led to this ill-conceived idea; a player who has accidentally created an unbreakable loop, or one who created a long-lasting loop that has run enough times to provide a victory but will keep going and going anyway, can use the button to advance the game rather than having to kill it.  The AI could get their turn broken at the timer, or perhaps be given a longer timer to avoid giving players undeserved wins.  Whatever.  What the AI does is not important to most of us.

I recognize that it may be too late to stop this from going forward in 3.3, but you're going to lose a lot of player participation and enthusiasm because of this change.  We've been without a new set for four months, it's finally here and all we're talking about is this design decision.  It's overshadowing any excitement we may have had about the arrival of new cards, new planeswalkers, and other new features with this release.

Listen to your players.  Make your first and only priority patching away this mistake as soon as possible, before too much damage is done.

nerdstrap

If there is even one bug, I will be reporting the app to Apple and asking them to delist it

KageTora

I'd like to thank Oktagon for preparing this video for us and proving it to every single, vocal, pitchfork-carrying doomsayer in the forum... that we were right.

I mean, you're introducing a loop-prevention system... And you can't even play your whole hand, with no loop involved at any point? Do I need to say more? This is utterly ridiculous. I mean, you sure as hell are gonna prevent loops, that's for sure - you're just gonna take almost every thing else down with it in the process. And that's sad considering loops are only around because YOU can't balance cards. 

Sure, you picked four Marches, and that's a card that takes a bit of time... But think about it. There was no drawing involved, no other card-related effects, no cascades, nothing. And you can't even cast four cards. What gives? At this rate, 75% of decks will become completely unuseable. And all of that for what? So that the useless, ineffective AI can become even worse? So people with **** cards can beat better decks? So you can fix your own mistakes in the most indirect, roundabout, unreasonable way?
A bad decision will remain a bad decision  no matter how much you try to explain it or showcase it. Same with bad mechanics.

Between this and the appalling lack of coalition events - thanks, Oktagon, for killing this game for me, after I devoted so much time and effort into it. I had already adhered to the "not another dime" movement, but with this not even that is going to cut it. This game might just become unplayable for me.

Tourmaline

I guess one way to *fix* the problem is to destroy 65% of gameplay. 

Impressive *fix*. 

ertaii

There's still time left to stop the car before it hits the wall. We all know you're rushing because you are late on releasing the new expansion set. But don't be surprised if the players jump off the car before the crash and there's no one left to play with the new set.
I'm a FTP player and I'm considering on investing less time in the game. I don't think any paying player will invest any money in the game for a while ! 

What's the point of releasing the new expansion set if there's no one left to buy cards ?

nerdstrap

Marketing it to new players will keep it going for a while... long slow death

Wafflesauce

Wait wait wait

4 full Marches is 48 tokens.
And you have 42.
Meaning it stopped the effect of the spell half-way...
So you're telling me that the "LPS" will cut off a spell in whatever step it is in?!?

Does that mean Apex of Power/Days Undoing/Behold the Beyond might exile my hand, and then not draw cards?
My 4th Approach of the Second Sun might only do 7 damage?
Blue Sun Zenith might not give mana to cards?
Dream eater may not bounce a creature?
Plague Wind may not kill all creatures?

I could have sworn that the original 3.3 notes said that when the timer ran out, the next action would be completed afterwards. Those have been edited to only refer to this thread.

I thought at first that the only thing we learned is that there is a timer on every step, and not just the cast.
But the fact that it ends a spell wherever it is....
This is even worse than I expected.

Dropspot

@Brigby I will clarify something that other players have talked about but maybe isn't that clear for someone that doesn't play the game as much as we play.

The video shows a player casting 4 March of the Multitudes, what was expected to happen today is that that player would end with a 48/48 token stack after everything was casted. What ended up was a 42/42 token stack, meaning that the LPS prevented the last spell to fully resolve. 

This is unacceptable! This is a shame. How are we supposed to play our decks without knowing what's is going to happen after casting a simple spell. This is even worse than what I have thought. I didn't thought it was possible to a spell effect was cut in the middle just because the time was up.

You really need to stop the going live. 

WacoKid

I still can’t figure out the need for this timer. I have been playing for a little over a year and have never run into this so called problem. Looking at that video the timer is going screw up a lot decks. If I don’t have the freedom to build the kind of decks I want because of the timer then what is the point. 

KageTora

WacoKid said:

If I don’t have the freedom to build the kind of decks I want because of the timer then what is the point. 

That is actually one of the most important aspects of Magic - the deck building aspect of it. The creative outlet. In fact, this freedom to be creative was the very thing that had me hooked about PQ. To me, this completely kills that, because you never know what's going to work or what's going to be cut short by this unnecessary, arbitrary turn timer. Because no matter what anyone says, that's exactly what it is - a turn timer. 

Dologan

Thanks for explaining how this moronic system is even worse than I feared, making a not even loopy hand play crippled and unpredictable. 

I'm not a whale, but over the last couple of years I have spent more on this game than any other game in my life. Until/unless this ridiculous feature is removed, my days as a paying customer, and maybe as player, are over. How's that for feedback. 

TReed

Is anyone who collects a paycheck even listening?? This is going to ruin this game. You have a large portion of your veteran players ready to storm out. PAYING CUSTOMERS WALKING OUT! 

On the plus side......plenty of Top 10 team spots will be opening up in the coming weeks! Start recruiting now. All new players will be able to jump into Top 10 teams.