Mastering cards seems a lot tougher than before

Tremayne

Mastering seems to require way more plays than before.

According to this guide, https://d3go.helpshift.com/a/magic-puzzle-quest/?s=gameplay-questions---general&f=player-s-guide-to-the-color-mastery-design&p=all
which is pre 3.2 mastering a card was done most efficiently in the Heroic Encounters.



Now the best I have found is 6 XP in Heroic Encounters regardless of the rarity of the card, so even a common card takes 20 plays in HE to master.

Is this as intended D3/Octagon?

have anyone found a game mode where they get more than 6 XP per match?

IM_CARLOS

How much plays do you need to master a common card post update? Have mastered every C/U and half way mastered my last 5 cards when update kicked in. 

Matthew

You get more points for stuff like Rising Tensions now. Try mastering things there.

Laeuftbeidir

Rising tensions, totp and nop all give 20 points. Story mode gives 2, heroic encounters and TG 6.

So origins chapter one gives 20 points for a full not mastered deck.. The same as one card in RT. A single card in RT gives more than three cards in heroic encounters, so 3 new cards there = a full not mastered denk in HE.

This looks like an incentive to not master in story mode any more, but to use fewer cards in rising tensions. Which is fine to me..at least I'll build more decks out of it.

Apart from legacy cards, I don't think totp is a good place for mastery.

Brakkis

Seems a poor decision.

Gabrosin

Perhaps the time to grind Legacy mastery will be PvE events with unlimited charges, like Fateful Showdown.

Machine

OK, so I tested a deck in TG with at least one common, uncommon, rare and mythic that all had zero XP. Each card received 6 XP after the win. The XP bar shows different progress for each rarity, which seems correct. However, instead of the normal 5 wins for a common card in TG, it now seems it's a lot more.

@Brigby: a couple of questions: 1) Is it intentional that the number of wins required to master a card in a particular event has changed? 2) Where can we find a list of how much XP a card of a given rarity needs to be mastered?

Froggy

Now that rewards are being granted for card mastery (player XP levels), it would make sense that more work is required to master cards.

Personally, I am okay with that. It sort of makes grinding more worth it. And possibly - a smart way to keep all us players busy while things are caught up with (bugs, updates, new events, new sets, previous sets, etc.).

I was highly skeptical of this update to begin with. But now that I’ve gotten a chance to play with it a little, I think this was a smart move on the part of the devs.

Kudos @Brigby.

TheDude1

Also keep in mind: new players are going to play story mode a lot more than events.  It makes sense to slow the mastery curve for those players so they can experiment with cards and not penalize them with increased tier.  This was the case in the prior setup across various versions of story mode, but now it's far more explicit, and it's done in a way that people can easily identify the mastery gains without having to reference/memorize that chart.  Everyone is far more familiar with accruing points than tracking how many wins across different types of matches, especially when you play multiple types.

It's also balancing the mastery vs rewards, and the mastery increases as the matches "matter" more.  You generally get much better rewards for competing in events than story/HE, so it stands to reason you should get more XP and move up the color mastery faster as well.  To my knowledge this wasn't the case before, because HE was used to grind mastery.  Running events will move you up the ladder faster because that's where the goods are; TG and HE are "less important" but still more valuable than basic story.

The one thing I will complain about is the lack of transparency here.  This appears to be a stepping stone update with more development coming, and without speculating I'm sure there will be more clarity in 3.3/3.4 and beyond.  But that doesn't help when this update was dropped with no explanation (and worse, that the new player guide references the old structure).

Tremayne

I think there is a dialemma in the new mastering principle.

If I am to master my cards fast, I have to go into a event (typically multiplayer) to get 20 XP per card. In the event there are objectives which needs to match the card(s) I want to master. If not the card will be a hindrance to the objectives and I will loose points and therefore prizes in the event.

Regardless of this I will be matched (in multiplayer events) with an opponent who may not be in the process of mastering cards, so he may play the most powerful cards, leading to reduced chance of winning. Sometimes that will lead to lost matches (occasionally) and losing prizes in the event.

Finally, most events are limited in the number of matches you can play, so mastering will be a slow and time consuming thing. Or I could just do the mastering in story mode, which is at least three times as slow as in events.

@TheDude1 has a good point about new players. For veterans it seems mastering is a thing of the past.

@Brigby - is the intention with the change.

Am I missing something that makes mastering easier?

TheDude1

@Tremayne Your post may be a feature of the system - that mastery may now take a lot longer than it used to on purpose.  Playing for mastery and playing for rewards are now somewhat decoupled.  It will be a pain to level, so only the most dedicated/skilled will.  

In theory the veterans who (a) are more willing to put in the time to master a lot of cards, (b) tend to play a lot of events, and (c) can make more/better cards work across a variety of decks, are the ones who are more skilled and/or have more robust collections, and thus should be leveled/tiered higher.  Those just exploring what cards work or those who don't play a lot events won't necessarily master the cards, which is likely for the best - they probably shouldn't be at higher tiers/levels, both for competitive reasons and for the rewards they would stand to earn.

It's painful, but it may end up as a more appropriate way of stratifying the player base.  This is especially true considering once you master, you can't go back and unmaster, so this structure grants a bit more latitude to play cards without ending up at "too high" a level.

One other thought: using this XP system for card mastery gives the dev team a little more flexibility in adapting to actual results.  For example, if they find that mastering is taking much longer than expected, they can increase the XP earn rates for a given event, even if it's a one-time booster to accelerate it.  Is the apparent 2/6/20 XP structure the best?  I have no idea, but now there are more ways to modify it (and with more visibility) than the old system. 

This rollout may even be a public test before formal implementation happens in a future update - we've seen this "public beta" before with Duel Decks.  It may also go hand-in-hand with events like RT and AI that now have a ton of nodes beyond what is necessary for progression, and why we've been getting more non-coalition events added...

Tremayne

It is most likely a feature, my feedback was to show that this has some serious drawbacks.

I’m not claiming that it is completely wrong, but it does seem there is room for improvements.

Brigby

Hi Everyone. Sorry about the confusion with Card Mastery! I'll double check with the team about whether that change is intentional or not.

Fiddler

Take it from one who has mastered over 2000 cards. Origins Part 2, Chapter 1 (Angel's Tomb)is the place to go to grind. The reason? Battles are very quick and points are good. Master whole decks at once since wins are easy. Fair warning, you might get a little tired of the writings of Mikanos...

Tremayne

@Fiddler - seems this is not current. Mastering has changed but maybe you hadn’t noticed.

IM_CARLOS

You can master in across ixalan, after reaching max progress. 20xp per card/match, legacy pool, limited charges, but no risk of loosing rewards. 

Tremayne

@IM_CARLOS - totally true, but let me put it this way. You are playing with one hand tied behind your back and your opponent is not necessarily playing with the same restrictions.

AI is a good place to master cards and it is available approx. 10% maybe 20% of the month and you will only get enough charges to master an uncommon card from scratch (at best) each time the event runs

so I ask again is this the intention from D3/Octagon? As someone mentioned maybe this is just a trial and tweaks will come later on. Great, here is my two cents to add to the decision makers.

Feden

Don't forget the 2hr recharge times for AI. I don't know how efficient it is yet,  but doing some mythics is certainly possible.

Fiddler

@Tremayne Mastery has not changed that much. I stand by my choice for mastering. Efficiency is gained in Angel's Tomb because your opponent only has 42 HP, which makes quick battles. Second, since you are not facing difficult opponents you can fill your deck with any mix of cards, no matter how cruddy, and master them all at the same time. Last, story mode has no charges so grinding is constant.    

Tremayne

@Fiddler - ok, I just thought you had missed something. 

I don’t agree with you but that I can live with that.