New Alliance Event - Sinister 600 *Updated (12/12/18)

bluewolf

No boss event has a 5E; so not having a H5H during them makes perfect sense.  Doc Ock is there because this event is basically an alliance PVE and there is a 5E. 

I’d guess that the vast majority of people missing Ock completely are also not sitting on 250CP that they would spend on a single cover.  Especially for a mid level character that isn’t shaking the meta. 

However, if they were, I’d honestly advise someone without Ock at all to use that CP in pursuit of Kitty, who can enhance your roster in several important ways.  A few Nebula covers probably aren’t worth the CP cost right now as she’s facing her last 8 weeks in Latest.

All that said, having the option to use H5H is certainly a good thing for an event like this.

Bugeyed

Somebody read the comments. Deadly is suddenly much easier

Example
Day 1. Doc Oct essential was versus  5* Thor, 4* Hulk (main) and 3* Black Widow

Day 3. Doc Oct essential is versus Agent Coulson, Capt Marvel 4* and a 1* sniper

 mechanics seem to be changed

Lystrata

Smart80 said:

@TPF Alexis @Lystrata
I surely get your grief with the situation, and honestly wouldnt wanna be in your shoes to coordinate this with your alliances. That said, I cant see them going lower with minimum required participation. Sure, they could opt for throwing all points on 1 pile instead, but they clearly like the “play and find your way” setup on these events for some reason... With everyone on LINE app, its doable to figure it out on first half hour, while everyone else tries not to be a Leeroy Jenkins... ;-) I honestly dont know how you would do without it...

The 5* being really required to reach top prize could be rough, but him being an old one is void. Plenty of time to get him, and he actually is available now in special store.. Also, having him, should be a plus and give chance to win something extra imo. If you consider top prize as that extra, it kinda make sense. Sure, its rough if you just cant reach it, but a complete roster should have its rewards as well.
I can surely see people being grieved all the same, if they could get all the rewards we have now without Ock, but when there would be an LT a day beyond the 4* token, that could only be reached with 5ock... thats a never ending thing i think..

Anyway, about the distribution over the difficulties. I would say a 4* a day for 4 days for whole alliance, or drop down so 1 or 2 can get the LT, isnt a difficult decision. So yes Lystrata, it isnt to much to ask that of a player, to sacrifice his personal progression. On the other hand, with 14 in 1 zone, the other 3 levels ideally should have 1 in them as well. So if you have different level players, that could actually be helpful.. We just all go deadly for day 2-4, cause we prefer not to get a headache from planning or let someone miss out on node rewards..

Good luck with your coordination..

A few points (and because this is the internet, and everything is read from a default setting of 'this is out to insult / attack me', I will make a note that that's not the intention - seriously just putting out another perspective):

(A) I personally have 0% grief about this. My Nebula is champed and I don't remotely care for a few more covers / I can certainly do Deadly if I choose without hassle / my personal progression isn't at stake. I'm really just putting up the argument for people who're at the 'in between' stage of 4* - 5*.

(B) The 5* being old as a matter of importance (or not) is probably going to be an issue of personal opinion. IMO, needing a 5* that's a year and a half old, and who was bad even when originally 'easily' available in LTs and so probably avoided by a lot of people, in order to get personal progression, while helping the alliance, is harsh.
  
No other event requires you have a long gone 5* in order to reach personal progression while doing what's best for the alliance. The fact he's now in H4H for 250cp is not an argument in favour of this - and perspective on that will absolutely be based on where anyone is in the game. But for many players 250cp is actually a large amount, and it's far more beneficial to spend it on LTs than to get one cover of a 5* that you likely won't be able to fully cover anyway. Genuinely not sure how you think there's 'plenty of time' to get him? 

(C) It's not necessarily going to be a drop down so 1 or 2 more can get an LT. The numbers will obviously differ based on how many people have what. And clearly alliances are going to differ on their opinion about which is the 'better' choice - getting 4*s or getting the 5* chance token. My point is more that it shouldn't even be a choice. Personal progression shouldn't be held ransom to what you can contribute to your alliance progression. I vaguely see why people would say 'a few should sacrifice their personal achievements so everyone else can get another 4*', but as commander I would actually feel worse telling people they have to give up personal progression - and did feel really bad once I realised some players wouldn't be able to reach it, after the choice made on day 1. But again, that's going to be a matter of personal opinion.

Anyway, my main point originally was it's not as easy as 'get 14 people together and you can do this!' And look, should 4* players / alliances be able to beat Deadly and get everything? Of course not. And I would argue in this event there should really be something more at the end of Deadly for alliances who can get through that. Because it is a challenge, and even for top tier alliances it will take time on everyone's part - and I do think you should be rewarded appropriately for that commitment. 

But should 4* players / alliances be able to beat Hard and get 4* covers without sacrificing personal progression? Absolutely. IMO.

Pylgrim

beyonderbub said:

If you can’t hit personal progression on your own bc you are missing essentials, then yes you should be a team player and coordinate with your alliance to direct your efforts towards achieving the highest possible alliance rewards. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, man. Sacrifice is a word that no longer holds much meaning in today’s society and it seems that hold true to our litttle game here. Take a hit for the TEAM; they have your back down the road. Advancing as an alliance will progress your roster eventually with higher rewards. Some folks here can’t see the big picture and these post are all about me, me, me and what about
my personal progression. So much for Christmas spirit...

Whoa, what. This kind of comment (and similar comments by others) is what is the problem with today's society, since you brought it up: When a system is broken, the burden is placed on those affected the most to work harder to catch up or quietly resign to their fate not to rock the boat for everybody else. That's not the way; rather, you let them voice their plight and support them to demand that the broken system is fixed.

You vaunt "sacrifice" but unsurprisingly you ask those who have less to sacrifice their chances to improve the rewards of those who have the most. And for what? 4 red covers of a character whose red covers have already been awarded multiple times? How about /you/ sacrifice your alliance rewards (which are not that great, to begin with) so your teammates can play where they have the best chances of acquiring their own progression rewards including a token with a 5* chance that may help them not be in this situation in the future? Why don't you take that bullet for them? Where's your Christmas spirit?

DISCLAIMER: I am an alliance Commander with a 5* roster. I am not arguing this for myself, but rather, on behalf of those in my alliance who are in that position. I'm ok with letting the paltry alliance rewards of this event go in order to maximise the gains of those who are further behind. More importantly, I speak this out in the hopes that in the next event of this kind nobody has to sacrifice anything.

bluewolf

Bugeyed said:

Somebody read the comments. Deadly is suddenly much easier

Example
Day 1. Doc Oct essential was versus  5* Thor, 4* Hulk (main) and 3* Black Widow

Day 3. Doc Oct essential is versus Agent Coulson, Capt Marvel 4* and a 1* sniper

 mechanics seem to be changed

The subs are rotating each day.  I am certain the devs are not changing node teams on the fly. 

I believe today’s Deadly sub was yesterday’s Hard sub. It should have all the same nodes, just increased enemy levels. 

Obviously, some of the subs/nodes were  designed to be harder than others in this event.

Painmonger

bluewolf said:

Bugeyed said:

Somebody read the comments. Deadly is suddenly much easier

Example
Day 1. Doc Oct essential was versus  5* Thor, 4* Hulk (main) and 3* Black Widow

Day 3. Doc Oct essential is versus Agent Coulson, Capt Marvel 4* and a 1* sniper

 mechanics seem to be changed

The subs are rotating each day.  I am certain the devs are not changing node teams on the fly. 

I believe today’s Deadly sub was yesterday’s Hard sub. It should have all the same nodes, just increased enemy levels. 

Obviously, some of the subs/nodes were  designed to be harder than others in this event.

Yes, the subs rotate clockwise each day so each aspect of the story is available to everyone, assuming you stick with the same difficulty.

As for the 5e being easier, I had a vastly tougher time with Coulson & Carol than any other node, used more heals there than the rest of the event combined. 

jamesh

Eight hours out from the end of day 3, and only 13 alliances have reached today's Nebula cover from the "hard" sub.

Karass

I'm annoyed at this new event compared to the other "new" alliance event. Why?

-Difficulty spiked way too high on lethal.
-Less CP given overall
-Individual Rewards very underwhelming
-Alliance reward underwhelming and hard to get with a few members absents or lacking roster depth
-Progression rewards being locked out if you missed the full clear everyday (eg lethal on day one was indeed, lethal to getting the LT event token, even the 4* feeder somehow)

What's positive:
it was creative and fun to read again the "plot" on day one (fresh storyline? Yay! (but repetitive in the long run since no "real" variation)

Still, a disappointment. 

Tony_Foot

jamesh said:

Eight hours out from the end of day 3, and only 13 alliances have reached today's Nebula cover from the "hard" sub.

Probably because like me they are saving a node to keep killing thor on, other than that I have to give points to people in sim.

bluewolf

I dunno if this was explicitly stated in a prior comment, but imagine this event with:

Your PERSONAL progression rewards being determined by the difficulty you play, and

The ALLIANCE rewards being the same with all players adding to a daily total.

If you want to continue to only give out 4* covers, (with rotating colors and/or characters), at least that way you'd have more of team effort that made sense vs this herding cats issue.  

People should be able to play the node that fits their roster and contribute equally to the alliance, regardless.

This switch would eliminate so many problems people are having.

We have 16 players that completed all the nodes as of 5 hours out on the 3rd day.  4 went Hard (reflecting their roster level), 12 went Deadly.  Hopefully at least 2 more complete Deadly before it closes.  

Another thing:  One reason Boss Rush went over so poorly is that not only was it insanely hard, requiring tricks and long battles fought via Hulkfinite, but the Alliance aspect had you competing against your own alliance for some rewards (I think 3* Storm).

This event brings back the notion that doing what's best for the alliance member (playing at your level) can be bad for the alliance (not enough people choosing the right level to reach the top prize).

Also, the best alliances for the game's long term health and longevity (assuming that's a goal) have a mix of players, with some high end players encouraging/giving tips for newer players; those types of alliances would benefit from my suggestion.

Just a thought.

Smart80

I wasnt talking about the H4H store, but the store with Thano5, Kingpin and Ock5. Thats a great store to get the new 5*, the essential 5* and still one of the most important 5* to be competitive in pve. Id say that is pretty decent of them.
No, i understand not everyone is sitting on a hoard, but sometimes you gotta plan ahead or accept you miss out... Having 1 cover of all toons should always be something you aim for in a game with essential matches, right?

Someone saying this was to lure us breaking a hoard? Guess what, they dont want us to hoard, at all. 

Anyway, as this is getting a bit silly if 4x4* vs 1 LT that most likely gets you 1 4* is really being debated, my interest is fading away. 

Just leaving with this. If you want to be in a very casual alliance, why be all serious all of a sudden when a little team work is asked for? Cant have it both ways 

MrDupaTM

Smart80 said:

I wasnt talking about the H4H store, but the store with Thano5, Kingpin and Ock5. Thats a great store to get the new 5*, the essential 5* and still one of the most important 5* to be competitive in pve. Id say that is pretty decent of them.
No, i understand not everyone is sitting on a hoard, but sometimes you gotta plan ahead or accept you miss out... Having 1 cover of all toons should always be something you aim for in a game with essential matches, right?

Someone saying this was to lure us breaking a hoard? Guess what, they dont want us to hoard, at all. 

Anyway, as this is getting a bit silly if 4x4* vs 1 LT that most likely gets you 1 4* is really being debated, my interest is fading away. 

Just leaving with this. If you want to be in a very casual alliance, why be all serious all of a sudden when a little team work is asked for? Cant have it both ways 

In order to get into a serious alliance I need to roster and level up the characters by acquiring covers (being it by progression in events, commander points, etc). I can't do this with events like this. Ergo I can't get into a serious alliance. And how do you want people to plan ahead when they are still missing half the characters which means they spend their hp and cp for roster spots and to get covers? Dude, you're so much up yours you can't see anything but your nose. Your **** advices are useful to so many imaginary players that are still ranking up yet somehow are sitting on resources worth hundreds of dollars.

gentgeen

I have been hip deep in planning this event out for out alliance.  Working out who has what covers, and how many points can they earn, etc.  As well a reading this entire thread for any addition advise - which has turned into just a ****-fest after ~36 hours after the start of the event.

The major reflection I have come to is (1) This event is actually better with the rewards than a normal alliance event (2) Most of the people on the "****" side of this seem to be looking at "Optimal" play wrong.  

The "Optimal" play is __NOT__ 14-4-1-1  ... this "Optimal" assumes too much.  Or to put it another way, this is the optimal as in "best case scenario" not as in "best play mode for all involved"

Optimal play (best rewards for alliance & personal progression) is to have 14 players clear ONE level, 4 players (mostly) clear another level, and then 2 floaters.   THis could be 14-4-1-1 or maybe 4-15-1-0  or maybe 0-4-16-0  ...  Whatever works for your alliance, but the OPTIMAL is a 14/4 split.  (and you still get 2 floaters to fill in as needed) 

I am going to pick Hard for my comparison since that seems to be a nice 'middle' ground.  (even our guys that had the required 5* under-covered still could get full progression here, it was just - well - hard)

After 4 days getting full Hard progression by 14 people you end up with 14 people getting FULL personal progression, but as a team you get:
4 - Event Tokens
4 - Elite Token
4 - 2* Covers (Capt America)
4 - Heroic Token
4x 1,500 Red ISO
4 - 3* Covers (Blade)
4 - 4* Cover (Nebula)

For all of you comparing this to other alliance events, I just looked at Avengers, X-Men and the Galactus events, all three have an Alliance reward list of:
1 - Event Token
3 - 3* Covers
3 - 4* Covers
1 - "Special" token (Legendary, Latest Legends, Xavier's Finest, etc)

So with 14 people on Hard, you end up with better alliance rewards, and still have the same wiggle room for your 'weaker' team members as well as those that might be working/out sick/etc.  With the added bonus of having those 6 other player's points potentially ADDING to the overall alliance rewards.  In a normal alliance event, the extra points are just that, extra.

So my ONLY problem with this event (and the Places of Power event) is that it is not straight forward game play... We had to discover that 14 was the magic number on this event.  (and we had to discover the magic number on the Places of Power event) .  So why can't the devs give us the info up front about points?  (i.e. you need 14 players to clear all in this node) 

DAZ0273

gentgeen said:

I have been hip deep in planning this event out for out alliance.  Working out who has what covers, and how many points can they earn, etc.  As well a reading this entire thread for any addition advise - which has turned into just a tinykitty-fest after ~36 hours after the start of the event.

The major reflection I have come to is (1) This event is actually better with the rewards than a normal alliance event (2) Most of the people on the "tinykitty" side of this seem to be looking at "Optimal" play wrong.  

The "Optimal" play is __NOT__ 14-4-1-1  ... this "Optimal" assumes too much.  Or to put it another way, this is the optimal as in "best case scenario" not as in "best play mode for all involved"

Optimal play (best rewards for alliance & personal progression) is to have 14 players clear ONE level, 4 players (mostly) clear another level, and then 2 floaters.   THis could be 14-4-1-1 or maybe 4-15-1-0  or maybe 0-4-16-0  ...  Whatever works for your alliance, but the OPTIMAL is a 14/4 split.  (and you still get 2 floaters to fill in as needed) 

I am going to pick Hard for my comparison since that seems to be a nice 'middle' ground.  (even our guys that had the required 5* under-covered still could get full progression here, it was just - well - hard)

After 4 days getting full Hard progression by 14 people you end up with 14 people getting FULL personal progression, but as a team you get:

4 - Event Tokens

4 - Elite Token

4 - 2* Covers (Capt America)

4 - Heroic Token

4x 1,500 Red ISO

4 - 3* Covers (Blade)

4 - 4* Cover (Nebula)

For all of you comparing this to other alliance events, I just looked at Avengers, X-Men and the Galactus events, all three have an Alliance reward list of:
1 - Event Token
3 - 3* Covers
3 - 4* Covers
1 - "Special" token (Legendary, Latest Legends, Xavier's Finest, etc)

So with 14 people on Hard, you end up with better alliance rewards, and still have the same wiggle room for your 'weaker' team members as well as those that might be working/out sick/etc.  With the added bonus of having those 6 other player's points potentially ADDING to the overall alliance rewards.  In a normal alliance event, the extra points are just that, extra.

So my ONLY problem with this event (and the Places of Power event) is that it is not straight forward game play... We had to discover that 14 was the magic number on this event.  (and we had to discover the magic number on the Places of Power event) .  So why can't the devs give us the info up front about points?  (i.e. you need 14 players to clear all in this node) 

Did you actually read the thread? That isn't meant to be rude but your post gives no indication you actually did.  I don't think "optimal play" is even an issue being complained about. The issue is simply about points available and how Draconian the margins are.

MPQ is a game filled with players who figure things out very quickly. I can burst your "optimal play" very easily - what if you Don't have 14 players who can get max points? What if actually, not Ock but Domino is the issue? You and others seem to assume that Domino is on every roster. She isn't. I am not even talking about on deadly or even hard. What if this "Alliance Event" is actually a case of not being an "Alliance" event no matter how hard you play or whatever co-ordination you put in place? I will be getting personal progression so that isn't a thing. This might as well be PVE for all the benefit a lot of Alliances will get though.

So when you can't actually achieve aliance completion on any level, it isn't ' really working.

gentgeen

DAZ0273 said:

gentgeen said:

I have been hip deep in planning this event out for out alliance.  Working out who has what covers, and how many points can they earn, etc.  As well a ....

Did you actually read the thread? That isn't meant to be rude but your post gives no indication you actually did.  I don't think "optimal play" is even an issue being complained about. The issue is simply about points available and how Draconian the margins are.

MPQ is a game filled with players who figure things out very quickly. I can burst your "optimal play" very easily - what if you Don't have 14 players who can get max points? What if actually, not Ock but Domino is the issue? You and others seem to assume that Domino is on every roster. She isn't. I am not even talking about on deadly or even hard. What if this "Alliance Event" is actually a case of not being an "Alliance" event no matter how hard you play or whatever co-ordination you put in place? I will be getting personal progression so that isn't a thing. This might as well be PVE for all the benefit a lot of Alliances will get though.

So when you can't actually achieve aliance completion on any level, it isn't ' really working.

"Optimal Play" is all about the points...  How do we get all the points possible to give us the best rewards possible.    I think we are on the same page.  

"What if you don't have 14 players that can get max points?"  .. you have 6 floaters, they can make up the missing points.  

"What if Domino is the issue" so you got a lot of players that are missing Domino also? Slide down to "Normal".  

"So when you can't actually achieve aliance completion on any level... " If your alliance can't make full progress on EASY, I doubt your alliance would have make full progression in a regular alliance event.

If you don't have multiple required characters, you are always gonna bump into issues, no matter what the alliance has.   The difference is in a "normal" alliance event, you are screwed if your alliance does not have enough players with enough required ... in this event at least you have options.  

I must admit I forgot to note in my post something I did post earlier in this thread - there is only a 2,600 margin at the personal level.  So I do agree with you that the point margin at the "personal progression" is ****. As a comparison point though, IDK if I can answer it...  Does anyone know if a player is missing a required cover, can they hit full personal progression (on normal alliance events) ?

HoundofShadow

They can, on the 9th or the 10th refresh, provided that the alliance can clear round 6 on Day 2. 

Theghouse

I'd like to add to my previous comments, is it just me or have the sub events been the same for every day of the event?  I've played hard for the last 3 days and it seems that these nodes are all the same...  Just another reason I'm struggling to even play this event through each day.

gentgeen

Theghouse said:

I'd like to add to my previous comments, is it just me or have the sub events been the same for every day of the event?  I've played hard for the last 3 days and it seems that these nodes are all the same...  Just another reason I'm struggling to even play this event through each day.

They change ... Each on rotates counter clockwise around the main node.  So today, "Osborn's Last Stand" is Hard (orange) but yesterday it was "City of Crime".  (Today, City of Crime is the Yellow/Medium node)  

DAZ0273

gentgeen said:

DAZ0273 said:

gentgeen said:

I have been hip deep in planning this event out for out alliance.  Working out who has what covers, and how many points can they earn, etc.  As well a ....

Did you actually read the thread? That isn't meant to be rude but your post gives no indication you actually did.  I don't think "optimal play" is even an issue being complained about. The issue is simply about points available and how Draconian the margins are.

MPQ is a game filled with players who figure things out very quickly. I can burst your "optimal play" very easily - what if you Don't have 14 players who can get max points? What if actually, not Ock but Domino is the issue? You and others seem to assume that Domino is on every roster. She isn't. I am not even talking about on deadly or even hard. What if this "Alliance Event" is actually a case of not being an "Alliance" event no matter how hard you play or whatever co-ordination you put in place? I will be getting personal progression so that isn't a thing. This might as well be PVE for all the benefit a lot of Alliances will get though.

So when you can't actually achieve aliance completion on any level, it isn't ' really working.

"Optimal Play" is all about the points...  How do we get all the points possible to give us the best rewards possible.    I think we are on the same page.  

"What if you don't have 14 players that can get max points?"  .. you have 6 floaters, they can make up the missing points.  

"What if Domino is the issue" so you got a lot of players that are missing Domino also? Slide down to "Normal".  

"So when you can't actually achieve aliance completion on any level... " If your alliance can't make full progress on EASY, I doubt your alliance would have make full progression in a regular alliance event.

If you don't have multiple required characters, you are always gonna bump into issues, no matter what the alliance has.   The difference is in a "normal" alliance event, you are screwed if your alliance does not have enough players with enough required ... in this event at least you have options.  

I must admit I forgot to note in my post something I did post earlier in this thread - there is only a 2,600 margin at the personal level.  So I do agree with you that the point margin at the "personal progression" is tinykitty. As a comparison point though, IDK if I can answer it...  Does anyone know if a player is missing a required cover, can they hit full personal progression (on normal alliance events) ?

My Alliance can normally get to Round 8. The failure of this event is not on them.

KenshinUK

The special LT from full progression gave me my first Doc ock cover, somewhat ironic but a nice pull none the less.