Is it harder to climb to 900 as a 5* player than as a 4* player?

Daredevil217

^^^

Are you using those 10 champs in PVP? I know you don’t play regularly but when you do, can you hit 900 easily?

I’m not worried about PVE. Since there’s no defense and often no tile movers, tons of teams are viable. 

None of those 9 listed are PVP meta so I imagine you’d get slammed a ton, but I could be wrong. 

Pants1000

Daredevil217 said:

^^^

Are you using those 10 champs in PVP? I know you don’t play regularly but when you do, can you hit 900 easily?

I’m not worried about PVE. Since there’s no defense and often no tile movers, tons of teams are viable. 

None of those 9 listed are PVP meta so I imagine you’d get slammed a ton, but I could be wrong. 

Honestly I haven’t even tried to hit 900 in a long time.  I got frustrated with it during Gambits reign and haven’t had the interest to really try again.  The little I do play, I usually use Panthos and do ok.  They’re not meta, but they can beat the meta teams just fine.  

I have some free time this week, so maybe I’ll give it a try.  If I do it I’ll post back here.

Rockwell75

I made the jump to 5s right after Gambit got nerfed after much of the same deliberation that everyone goes through when they get to that point.  I had read posts by some people who said the game gets stale, PVP becomes impossible etc. etc. but what I found is that it's impossible to generalize as the experience one has first transitioning to 5s depends ENTIRELY on which 5s they trainsition with.  I jumped in with JJ, floated in single 5 MMR for a bit, then added Thor and then about a week ago Okoye.  Suffice to say the transition has been wonderful.  PVE is a breeze-- the sheer speed and efficiency of 5s vastly outweighs the comparative lack of diversity in the tier.  PVP is also a lot easier. Even when dealing with single 5 MMR I found (with JJ) there weren't any teams I couldn't handle and of course things only got easier with Thor and Okoye.  Getting to 900 is a no brainer and I have been consistently getting to 1200 in a about 4-5 hops when I'm willing to put in the effort.  \  All of this said I'm fairly certain my experience would have been totally different if I didn't jump in with arguably the 3 best 5s in the game right now.  My advice to anyone at this point considering the transition would be to only go for it if you had one of Thor, Okoye or JJ ready to champ and possibly another one waiting in the wings.  The only real downside for me is that once you experience 5s the 4 star tier becomes almost entirely irrelevant and the only thing motivating me at this point is champing more 5s...an altogether much more glacial process than champing 4s.

Nick441234

Daredevil217 said:

Nick441234 said:

I hit 900 in every PVP I tried for, for at least the last year, of playing in 4* land. I haven't hit 900 even once yet while in 5* land. I get hit all the time and I wont shield so I just accept that 575 is now my 900. 

And this right here is exactly what I’m afraid of. Any advice for this this guy from other 5* players?

My main problem is that I champed 5* Thanos as I wanted to make my PVE clears quicker. Even the one champed 5 sent my scaling through the roof so felt I needed to champ others to help out. My champed 5*s right now are Thanos, Spiderman, Archangel and Phoenix. I appreciate this is why its so much harder for me because, other than Thanos, the others aren't particularly top notch. Covers haven't fallen well for me with the better 5*s so no one else is champable. 

theomen

I've found it easier with 5*s, or a mix of 5* and 4*

I think it largely depends on which 5*s you have. For example, OML and Phoenix are no longer that intimidating, so it will still probably be a hard climb.

If however you have Thor, Okoye, JJ and Thanos then you should find it much easier.

Jexman

Basically my advice is to make the 5* transition. You'll rarely use 4*s anymore but the time you save in PVE is worth it...plus 900 becomes considerably easier ime.

My 5* champs are Thor, Ghost Rider, Beardo Cap, and Phoenix, with Doc Strange at 435. I have almost every 4* champed, and have since I made the 5* transition. I rarely made it to 900 with 4*s, but with 5*s I get there every time now (if I have time, but it's not the opponents that make it hard, it's real life that gets in the way). I mostly go against Thor/Okoye teams level 450-460, but they're simple to beat without health packs needed usually. Black Bolt teams do more damage but with Thor I never lose to them. I wasn't seeing any more variety of opponents at the 4* level, just Grockets. With 4 5* champs I can rotate a bit, though my goto is Thor / Ghost Rider (since GR tanks for Thor and so you can keep Thor at half health for your whole climb to 900 without any health packs for him). Beardo is super fast as a partner for him since you can 1-shot the enemy Thor you'll leave for last, but he doesn't tank as well for Thor. My JJ is at 11 covers so I'll add her to the mix soon. 

jredd

OJSP said:

jredd said:

OJSP said:

jredd said:

hover around 100th place

What does this achieve?

keeps you from being a high value target. reduces the amount of hits you take. you go higher you're gonna get hit more. you don't shield that's about the point you'll get beat down to. saves shields, saves frustrating losses.

I see.. So, it’s your chosen floating point. I know it’s your guide and it obviously works for you in your chosen slices. However, I think that rank is probably a spot you found most comfortable at floating. In other slices, the floating point could be different and trying to float around 100th place could result in a different score and experience than yours. The amount of hits we receive would also vary, as it largely depends on our roster and MMR. I know some people would get hit to below 200 if they float.

The logic is sound, though. But, this mainly relates to the scoring system and how well populated is our slice with unshielded players.  At 300, we would only be worth around 64 for someone at 0 and we would only lose 4 points. The closer we get to the end of an event, there would usually be higher value targets that others would hit instead. If the slice is dry, joining players would be offered matches with lower scores and if someone is floating at 200 (worth 57), they will still get hit.

I’m not trying to change how you play, but I’m interested to know a bit more: how long do you float there and why do you float? why not just join at the 9 hour mark and climb straight to 900? 30 minutes is more than enough to get 300. The reason I’m asking these question is because of placement rewards. If we join too early and get grouped with front runners, we’d rank lower than if we join later (again, there are exceptions to the rule)

i'll join an event before it starts. if there are seed teams i'll hit them, if not i'll probably go to 100 points and stop there. that usually puts me in the 100th place range. next day i'l go to 200-250 points and chill there, staying out of the top 100. for some reason that spot seems to be a good floating point in the slices i go in. not saying i don't get hit occasionally, but it does limit them. i'll bump up to 300 - 320ish with 18-20 hours left. when i start my run with 8.5 hours left i'm usually around 300 points. then i'll just go for it. if i start getting hit after 800, i'll usually just push through to 900 and shield. if i'm cruising i'll take a stab at 1200. there are times when i can make it without getting hit at all. if i stop at 900+ i'll usually get top 25. if i get to 1200, top 10. i don't worry too much about placement in pvp though.

why don't i join at 9 hours? i dunno, never tried it, and the system i got going on now works for at least 900 points 100% of the time. if it isn't broke don't fix it.

Milk Jugz

Versus and Story modes are both far easier with 5*. I joined S3 for Deadpool versus event, climbed to 1200 without many hits at about the 16 hr left mark. Then dropped back down. In the next hour or two I'm going to start tormenting hoppers. The fun of 5* Versus, at least for me, is not the diversity of the tier but being able to snipe hops quickly. I've tripled the same person's hop inside 5 min with Thor Okoye. I guess the fun of the game depends on what you're trying to do. To me, versus is competitive and I want to play it that way.

For Story mode, nothing beats the speed of 5*.

Daredevil217

It is so weird to me that some people say it’s near impossible to get to 900 as a 4* player but a breeze as a 5* and others say they exact opposite. 

I just finished “It’s Me... Deadpool” and took some notes. Mind you everyone but Tasky, Dazzler and Nebula are champed for 4’s, and none of my 5s have iso. Deadpool is max-champed. 

- Two hours remaining, joined, no seeds. Started with Moon Knight and half health Thor fueling MK green and DP red. 

- Climbed to 509 with this combo and healed DP once along the way, switched to varying combos: Chavez/Grocket, Gamora/Grocket, Rogue/Chavez (this one was my final push to 900 team). 

- Right after hitting 900 I got hit l, went into a fight and got the points back, but got hit again. Realized I’m not climbing anymore and shielded out at 904 and 14th place. Currently in 18th and will likely keep falling as there is 22 minutes left. 

This is pretty typical for me in 4* land though sometimes those hits around 900 don’t come and I can climb to 1,000 before putting up my sole 3 hour shield. 

Milk Jugz

Yeah, the 5* difference here, I've used a sole 3 hr shield numerous times over 1.2k with t5 placement in the slice I normally play. Which is not S3, I'm just there to piss people off this event.

CharlieCroker

At present, I'm almost exclusively running my mid 450's Okoye/Thor despite having the majority of the 5* tier champed and lots at higher levels (up to 471).  This is purely because the speed of this combo is unsurpassed - it's arguably quicker than Panthos for clearing all but the lightest grills.  I make this point as, with the current meta, it doesn't matter too much if your 5*s are baby champs or 470s+. 

But what cannot be over emphasised is the importance of (i) the shard you're playing in, and (ii) the time left in the event.  Some shards are notable for action going all the way to the end of the event (S1 in particular) whereas others can be very dry in the last few hours (often S3).

As well as that, some shards will score higher than others.  S1, S3 & S4 are scoring shards and generally speaking score in excess of 2k.  However S2 and S5 can be very tough and the top scorers in my experience rarely reach 1500 if that.

This doesn't matter much to the 4* tier players, as they often cannot queue the high scorers, so they're just hitting 50pt (or less) queues up to 900, unless they get lucky enough to queue a grill or someone running a quick but soft team like Thor/Chavez or Okoye/Medusa (unboosted).

However for 5* tier players it does matter, as you will be able to queue nearly all 5* players throughout your climb (and likewise they can queue you) and should only see 4* teams once MMR has narrowed - which can still sometimes be as low as 700/800 late in events in drier shards.

So to conclude, if you climb with a fast 5* team at the right time and in the right shard, you should be able to hit 900 super quick due to the continual supply of 75pt queues from those hopping till the end (I once managed 1500 in the last hour of S1).  But if instead you're playing S2 with >24h left, you could find the queues dry up well before 900.

Daredevil217

Jexman said:

Basically my advice is to make the 5* transition. You'll rarely use 4*s anymore but the time you save in PVE is worth it...plus 900 becomes considerably easier ime.

My 5* champs are Thor, Ghost Rider, Beardo Cap, and Phoenix, with Doc Strange at 435. I have almost every 4* champed, and have since I made the 5* transition. I rarely made it to 900 with 4*s, but with 5*s I get there every time now (if I have time, but it's not the opponents that make it hard, it's real life that gets in the way). I mostly go against Thor/Okoye teams level 450-460, but they're simple to beat without health packs needed usually. Black Bolt teams do more damage but with Thor I never lose to them. I wasn't seeing any more variety of opponents at the 4* level, just Grockets. With 4 5* champs I can rotate a bit, though my goto is Thor / Ghost Rider (since GR tanks for Thor and so you can keep Thor at half health for your whole climb to 900 without any health packs for him). Beardo is super fast as a partner for him since you can 1-shot the enemy Thor you'll leave for last, but he doesn't tank as well for Thor. My JJ is at 11 covers so I'll add her to the mix soon. 

I wanted to comment on this. I think that the champs you transition with are super key. And I wonder if those having trouble are ones without the meta. I think I’d be set for awhile with my roster even if the meta changed. But man, the iso needed is crazy. I’ll also have about 400 pulls when Cable enters Latests so add them to the count as well. 

Right now it’s:

MAXED
Jessica Jones (4/5/4 +4)
Thor (5/5/3 +2)
Okoye (4/5/4 +1)
Daredevil (5/4/4 +1)
Green Goblin (5/3/5 +1)

12 covers
Captain America (IW) (2/5/5 +1)

11 covers
Black Panther (2/4/5)
Archangel (5/3/3)
Ghost Rider (3/4/4)*
Gambit (4/2/5)**

10 covers
Thanos (1/5/4)

Here’s the rest that will likely never get finished with the exception of Kitty and maybe Loki if I pull for him:

Black Bolt (5/0/0), Black Widow (1/2/2), Captain America (3/0/0), Doctor Octopus (2/0/1), Doctor Strange (2/2/2), Hawkeye (1/2/0), Iron Man (4/2/2), Jean Grey (2/2/1), Kitty Pryde (1/0/0), Loki (1/1/0), Silver Surfer (0/2/4), Spider-Man Black (2/2/1), Spider-Man Parker (4/3/0), Star-Lord (3/3/1), The Hulk (1/0/1), Wasp (4/1/0), Wolverine (3/2/1)

*Almost any feeder makes him 4/4/4 and champable with any cover from a bonus, feeder or new release store.

**I broke him down and rebuilt him banking on Rogue becoming a feeder and finishing him with a perfect 5/3/5 build. 

TranscendGod

I'm a 4* player and I usually go from 0-900 in 30-50 minutes depending on which 4s are boosted. Occasionally I manage a sub 30 minute 0-900, like just now with R&G boosted. My 4*s are relatively low level (most are below 300). From what I've heard, with strong 5* champs it's much easier to get to 1200, but 900 is either slower or about the same depending on various factors.

As for PVE, 5*s are only significantly faster in CL9 (and the degree to which they are faster depends on which 4s are boosted. In lower CL (especially 6 or 7) 4* players can go faster than most 5* players (and only a minute or two slower than the very fastest players in most events). And even in CL9, with a good bracket a 4* player can do well (for example, I was top 2 CL9 in the taskmaster release event).

Overall, if you want progression in CL9 PvE and 900 points in PvP, having 5* champs will save you a decent amount of time. If you're willing to play CL7, having 5s won't save much time at all. I prefer playing with 4s because I enjoy the variety of teams and opponents (on my climb, I encounter numerous combinations of 3s,4s, and randomly covered 5s). In PvE, outside of release events, I like to have fun playing with silly teams that are too weak for PvP. I don't mind missing out on rewards, because a 4* player doesn't need as much to make steady progress.

It wouldn't be so bad for 5* players if the 5* tier had better balance. I hope that they eventually improve all the weak 5* characters. Until then, I'll keep having fun with 4s. 5* land is better if you enjoy competitive PvP or if you want those juicy legendary tokens from CL9.

Pongie

What defines a harder climb? The fact that you are taking hits, or running out of health packs, or you're struggling to beat other 5* teams? 

If you have okoye and thor, you will still be hit on your climb, but you wont be relying on health packs as much to sustain your climb. This team will also beat pretty much any team in the meta right now. You won't struggle and it pretty much comes down to how long/quick you can play to offset the hits.  

DFiPL

Daredevil217 said:

Jexman said:

Basically my advice is to make the 5* transition. You'll rarely use 4*s anymore but the time you save in PVE is worth it...plus 900 becomes considerably easier ime.

My 5* champs are Thor, Ghost Rider, Beardo Cap, and Phoenix, with Doc Strange at 435. I have almost every 4* champed, and have since I made the 5* transition. I rarely made it to 900 with 4*s, but with 5*s I get there every time now (if I have time, but it's not the opponents that make it hard, it's real life that gets in the way). I mostly go against Thor/Okoye teams level 450-460, but they're simple to beat without health packs needed usually. Black Bolt teams do more damage but with Thor I never lose to them. I wasn't seeing any more variety of opponents at the 4* level, just Grockets. With 4 5* champs I can rotate a bit, though my goto is Thor / Ghost Rider (since GR tanks for Thor and so you can keep Thor at half health for your whole climb to 900 without any health packs for him). Beardo is super fast as a partner for him since you can 1-shot the enemy Thor you'll leave for last, but he doesn't tank as well for Thor. My JJ is at 11 covers so I'll add her to the mix soon. 

I wanted to comment on this. I think that the champs you transition with are super key. And I wonder if those having trouble are ones without the meta. I think I’d be set for awhile with my roster even if the meta changed. But man, the iso needed is crazy. I’ll also have about 400 pulls when Cable enters Latests so add them to the count as well. 

Right now it’s:

MAXED
Jessica Jones (4/5/4 +4)
Thor (5/5/3 +2)
Okoye (4/5/4 +1)
Daredevil (5/4/4 +1)
Green Goblin (5/3/5 +1)

12 covers
Captain America (IW) (2/5/5 +1)

11 covers
Black Panther (2/4/5)
Archangel (5/3/3)
Ghost Rider (3/4/4)*
Gambit (4/2/5)**

10 covers
Thanos (1/5/4)

Here’s the rest that will likely never get finished with the exception of Kitty and maybe Loki if I pull for him:

Black Bolt (5/0/0), Black Widow (1/2/2), Captain America (3/0/0), Doctor Octopus (2/0/1), Doctor Strange (2/2/2), Hawkeye (1/2/0), Iron Man (4/2/2), Jean Grey (2/2/1), Kitty Pryde (1/0/0), Loki (1/1/0), Silver Surfer (0/2/4), Spider-Man Black (2/2/1), Spider-Man Parker (4/3/0), Star-Lord (3/3/1), The Hulk (1/0/1), Wasp (4/1/0), Wolverine (3/2/1)

*Almost any feeder makes him 4/4/4 and champable with any cover from a bonus, feeder or new release store.

**I broke him down and rebuilt him banking on Rogue becoming a feeder and finishing him with a perfect 5/3/5 build. 

So, uh, Thorkoye gets a lot of love because of what I said earlier - brutally efficient in the player's hands, reasonable to deal with when in the AI's hands - but Daredevil + Okoye is perhaps more brutal. Just slower in PVP world, because you don't have a HalfThor or Vulture or what-have-you ginning up a bunch of free AP. But collect some TU with Okoye + Daredevil and fire his purple or green and watch people just...melt.

It's insane and I love it. Thor + Okoye + Daredevil is my SHIELD Sim go-to these days, I think.

DeNappa

Daredevil217 said:

Black Bolt (5/0/0), Black Widow (1/2/2), Captain America (3/0/0), Doctor Octopus (2/0/1), Doctor Strange (2/2/2), Hawkeye (1/2/0), Iron Man (4/2/2), Jean Grey (2/2/1), Kitty Pryde (1/0/0), Loki (1/1/0), Silver Surfer (0/2/4), Spider-Man Black (2/2/1), Spider-Man Parker (4/3/0), Star-Lord (3/3/1), The Hulk (1/0/1), Wasp (4/1/0), Wolverine (3/2/1)

I don't have much on-topic to add to this thread but man, I feel sorry for your poor 5/0/0 Black Bolt. 

Nick441234

TranscendGod said:

As for PVE, 5*s are only significantly faster in CL9 (and the degree to which they are faster depends on which 4s are boosted. In lower CL (especially 6 or 7) 4* players can go faster than most 5* players (and only a minute or two slower than the very fastest players in most events). And even in CL9, with a good bracket a 4* player can do well (for example, I was top 2 CL9 in the taskmaster release event).

I'd strongly disagree with that. I play in CL7, and since champing Thanos, I halved my clear times compared to when I cleared with only 4*s. 

Straycat

I lost some investment in the game after getting 5* champs. Felt like I beat the game. That 4* cover at 900 doesn't feel like its worth the trouble.

Why transition? I dunno, its fun?

I'd say champ just Daredevil. He's fun and only having one champ still lets you use and go against a diverse roster. He's also not the meta so he'd be benched if you champ everyone, and I'm guessing you like Daredevil. But then again if you're just looking at the rewards maybe its better to stay with what works

Daredevil217

Good advice with the whole DD thing.  Or the whole champ a single 5* in general, which is another approach I could think about.  I'm curious who among the following would allow for the fastest PVE clears:

Cable

Kitty

Loki

Okoye

Jessica

Daredevil

My guess is Cable.  Use Thor as a green/yellow battery and have him fuel Cable's strikes and nuke.  Thor has been the only 5 I use and one of my most used characters under-leveled so I'd rather keep him at 255 and use someone I don't already use.

Jess Red and DD Green are also fueled by Thor but only those single powers. 

And Kitty is a close runner up to Cable (may even be better) as she has more synergy with 4* characters than 5* characters. I imagine Her tile buffing with Grocket can make light work of most nodes in CL8. Though her other two powers are situational and I imagine she'd get boring after awhile. 

Thoughts?

Palookaville

When I was running 4*s I got to 900 with ease nearly every PvP event (usually in one go) then I made the mistake of leveling up one of my 5*s to 450 (and a couple to 420) now I get to 575 and quit because I cannot move past that without being hammered as all I can face are 450+ teams and I can't compete with that. When I had 4* teams and faced other 4* (and even 3* teams) life was so much easier