Is it harder to climb to 900 as a 5* player than as a 4* player?

Daredevil217

So right now, I’m in a pretty sweet spot.  Some TLDR on how my specific roster is faring below:

I’ve essentially conquered the 4* tier. Only missing Nebula (11 covers), Dazzler (8 covers and my BH), and Taskmaster (will be 11 after anniversary is over). 

I play CL8 PVE for placement and regularly get T5 playing optimally; sometimes T10. In PVP I play for progression, hop in in the last three hours, and sleepwalk to 900 without a single shield. Maybe get hit once or twice and shield to protect points for the season. 

I have five fully covered 5s, including all the meta- sans Thanos; and I have 400 pulls (so could add Loki, Kitty, Cable). 

I’ve been mulling over the 5* transition more and more (for me there’s just a few characters that seem fun to play, especially Daredevil). However I constantly hear two things that concern me.

1) it’s harder to climb, I get attacked earlier and more often, need to shield more, etc. 

For me I like waltzing to 900 in the last hour and not having to use shields! Would that go away once 5* can see me?

2) It’s a Thorkoye fest. 

One of the great things about the 4* tier is that I use and see a wide variety of characters. Within an event it is usually the featured and maybe 4-6 different characters in various combos- but you get a different set each event. Would it be Thorkoye central for every event? If so, how can you have fun only using those same characters. For those who talk about mixing in max champed 4s, I’d guess the mean of my 4s is only 300 and my highest is 310. 

So if 1 and 2 are true (PVP is harder and way more of my roster is obsolete), what is the payoff for transitioning? I’m already getting pretty great rewards for the effort I expend. Is it really just for faster PVE? 

DFiPL

I've never - either as a 4* player or as a 5* player - found the climb to 900 to be a 'waltz.'

But I've found it easier, especially in the wins-based era, to GET to 900 or 1000 as a 5* player. In the last hour? I don't know. I join at event starts for the 10 free wins, play here and there throughout the event, and probably hit 900 2-3 times per event without shielding. So there's that. But I'm hardly an "optimal" PVPer.

There is a lot of Thorkoye. That said, Thorkoye is a team that's brutally efficient in the hands of a human player, and pretty easy to deal with in the hands of the AI. So, I mean, it's not as obnoxious as it sounds.

My transition was, yeah, for faster PVE. That's my focus. PvP was, for the longest time, the place I went to get an extra 10 CP every few days (and now that wins-based is a thing, also an extra 4* cover every few days). Took my daily grinds/clears time expenditure from around 2 hours to about 1:20 most nights. That 40 minutes saved was not trivial from a quality-of-life perspective.

Bowgentle

Come on.
You'll never transition to 5s.

You've been "mulling over it" for a year.
You even broke down your fully covered Gambit for parts so you could stay in the 4* tier.

jredd

the difference between gambit + whoever and thorkoye is thorkoye is easily beatable by a variety of other characters (some 4* too) where gambit was hard to beat unless you had your own. getting to 900 isn't too difficult, even facing thorkoye teams or jj or whomever.

Dragon_Nexus

jredd said:

the difference between gambit + whoever and thorkoye is thorkoye is easily beatable by a variety of other characters (some 4* too) where gambit was hard to beat unless you had your own. getting to 900 isn't too difficult, even facing thorkoye teams or jj or whomever.

I can second this. Okoye's been great because she boosts up whomever she's with, so a bunch of high level 4*s can just murder with her. Medusa and Okoye was a masty pairing when Medusa's boosted.

However, I've come unstuck with JJ and Daredevil before. DD stuns then JJ activates her trap card and you take mega damage.

Making the transition to 5* land, I'd suggest picking 2 or 3 and champ them all at once, then you can hit the ground running. Having one is a little awkward, since you still need a strong boosted 4* to help in PvP. Having two gets you in there right away, but it has to be the right two. Once you've got three good ones you should have a much easier time in PvE.

Thanos is a good eventual pick if your primary focus is PvE, but take it from me, he's not a good first pick if you want to do PvP. I had to champ him though since I couldn't save his covers back then =/

Richyyy

I've definitely found it easier to hit 900 since moving on to 5*s. I used to join late and aim for the CP at 575, then quit, because of how dispiriting and tedious it was constantly being knocked down while trying to climb to 900 (and shield-hopping was a pain I only rarely bothered with). In 5* territory I still join late (2hrs left max), but the charge is to 900 (and occasionally I keep going towards 1200, although obviously there's more chance of taking hits). I usually only take a couple of defensive losses, if that, on the way to 900.

There is a lot of Thor/Okoye, but you do see other 5*s (JJ, Thanos, occasional Bolt, smattering of others). There's definitely less variety of opponents than on the 4* tier if that's a big issue for you. Thor/Okoye are beatable with plenty of pairings, but they're the fastest to use yourself, hence their preponderance. If you start mixing and matching your teams while trying to do a late climb, you may find yourself taking a lot more hits. Thor/Okoye are very beatable, but if a 4* team is on offer instead people will feast on it.

And yeah, they do speed up PvE a hell of a lot.

charmbots

I transitioned to 5* earlier this year and i’m glad I did. Pve is much faster; pretty much any non mindless ones sub is cleared in 30mins or less. I’ve also found that I use a wider variety of characters for pve, since with 4* i was using gam/med/r&g all the time. 

Pvp is easier also, in my opinion. I don’t know how it is with 1hr left in an event but with 6-12hrs left climbing over 1000 is usually pretty easy even in a lower scoring slice. A lot of teams are okoye/thor bit there’s also usually some JJ, thanos, OML, and strange. The number of max champed, boosted 4’s you would see is surprising also. The only 4’s i’ve found viable in 5* pvp around level 310+ are boosted carol and medusa, but there are some other boosted 4’s that could work when boosted depending on your other 5’s. Also, with half thor 75 wins is not a huge time drain if you ever wanted to go that route. 

Basically what I’ve found 5’s to give is: 1) faster pve clears/easier placement. 2) 1200+ pvp and top5 placement can be fought for if you want to spend the hp. 3) less variety in pvp/possibly more variety in pve. 

0_efx_0

Yes, I hit 900 in 4star land many times.
5star land is a struggle, I don’t even try anymore. Health packs fly.

Daredevil217

DFiPL said:

I've never - either as a 4* player or as a 5* player - found the climb to 900 to be a 'waltz.' 

That’s so weird because I remember a time when that push from 800 to 900 was a real struggle. Then it just stopped. I swear while there are a few exceptions, I mostly just push to 900 in one run and at most take 3 hits and many times none at all. I don’t know if it’s because I built my roster wide (almost all champed but none over level 310) and not tall and so I’m more protected from 5* teams? It’s a pretty good place and scary to leave.

Bowgentle said:

Come on.
You'll never transition to 5s.

You've been "mulling over it" for a year.
You even broke down your fully covered Gambit for parts so you could stay in the 4* tier. 

I wouldn’t say “never”. Definitely think my resolve is weakening. I do know that once you make the leap there’s no going back. The main thing stopping me right this second is iso. Right now I only need about 1.32 million to finish the current 4s and make my 3 farm completely self sustaining. So anything after that is all surplus that can start accumulating toward 5s (though will have to keep diverting some to champ 4s as they’re released). 

When Gambit and Ghost Rider get feeders and when I crack my hoard of 400 pulls I’m looking at as many as 10 max-covered fives on my roster. So 5.75 million to champ. Plus four others are 10-12 covers (Panthos, Beard, Angel). I can take the champ three approach or I can take the level all slowly approach. I’m likely to do the latter because I get more options to play with but it creates a much slower transition. 

jredd said:

the difference between gambit + whoever and thorkoye is thorkoye is easily beatable by a variety of other characters (some 4* too) where gambit was hard to beat unless you had your own. getting to 900 isn't too difficult, even facing thorkoye teams or jj or whomever.

I know that. I actually said that back before his nerf. It bothered me because half the reasons that people wanted him nerfed weren’t accurate. People said they wanted variety and I said they wouldn’t get it. I said a new meta would take over and stunt variety and that’s exactly what happened. Though at the time I was told I didn’t know what I was talking about because I’m a 4* player.

So I guess it’s not the difficulty that concerns me as much as the monotony. Do you ever get bored playing 2-4 characters ad nauseous?

OJSP said:

It sounded like you’re already satisfied with what you’re achieving now, therefore there’s really no need to transition further. However, to be competitive in PvE CL9 and to get 1200 in PvP, it’s generally accepted that we need a good selection of 5*s now (there are always exceptions to the rule).

That’s sort of what I’m saying. I’m thinking if I transitioned I’d stay in 8 but welcome the faster clears and less stress about placing top 5 (it’d pretty much be a lock). For PVP, without coordination does it cost a bunch of shields to get to 1200? Is it a chore? I’ve never actually attempted it but some 5* players here have said it’s not worth it. I’ve never seen a guide on here for climbing to 1200. That’d be helpful for many transitioners I’m sure. 

Dragon_Nexus said:

Thanos is a good eventual pick if your primary focus is PvE, but take it from me, he's not a good first pick if you want to do PvP. I had to champ him though since I couldn't save his covers back then =/

I really want the Titan. My fear is he will enter a new release store after my hoard has been busted. Mine has a stellar 10 covers but built 1/4/5. And Gamora (302) has already given Black and Purple. He’s my bonus but I’ll have to get an extremely lucky run of black to finish him with that build. 

Richyyy said:

I've definitely found it easier to hit 900 since moving on to 5*s. I used to join late and aim for the CP at 575, then quit, because of how dispiriting and tedious it was constantly being knocked down while trying to climb to 900 (and shield-hopping was a pain I only rarely bothered with). 

See again I don’t know why my experience is so different. Can I ask when you were a 4* player what your roster was like. Did you have most the boosted champed, were they around the same level, etc.

Thank you everyone for the insight and perspectives. Please keep them
coming. This is much appreciated information!

Nick441234

I hit 900 in every PVP I tried for, for at least the last year, of playing in 4* land. I haven't hit 900 even once yet while in 5* land. I get hit all the time and I wont shield so I just accept that 575 is now my 900. 

Yepyep

This is a great question and thread, @Daredevil217, thanks for asking and starting it.

Oh -- and thanks for the great commentary, everyone.

jredd

jredd's quick guide to 900:

1: hover around 100th place
2: wait until there's 8.5 hours left
3: go like stink/do not hit anyone that's less than 50 points (usually i'm at 300 points when i start this phase)
4: hit 900 and a) drop an 8 hour shield or b) go for 1200.

*works best with 1/2 health thor and okoye.

**i alternate between s1 and s3. whichever ends at either 4 or 6 am my time.

Daredevil217

Nick441234 said:

I hit 900 in every PVP I tried for, for at least the last year, of playing in 4* land. I haven't hit 900 even once yet while in 5* land. I get hit all the time and I wont shield so I just accept that 575 is now my 900. 

And this right here is exactly what I’m afraid of. Any advice for this this guy from other 5* players?

Richyyy

Daredevil217 said:

Richyyy said:

I've definitely found it easier to hit 900 since moving on to 5*s. I used to join late and aim for the CP at 575, then quit, because of how dispiriting and tedious it was constantly being knocked down while trying to climb to 900 (and shield-hopping was a pain I only rarely bothered with). 

See again I don’t know why my experience is so different. Can I ask when you were a 4* player what your roster was like. Did you have most the boosted champed, were they around the same level, etc.

Yeah, pretty much everything was champed, bar recently released characters. Maybe my view was colored by early experiences of PvP before my roster was ready for it, but I never felt like 900 was worth the energy and aggravation when I was in 4* land. I used to get there via a shield-hop or two only when the 900-reward was a new-release cover that I actually wanted.

5* land was actually even worse initially, but that's because Gambit was around. Once they nerfed him it's become much smoother, and while Thor/Okoye may be the top choice, you can get by with plenty of other 5* pairings. We're not in that hypothetical optimum situation where there'd be a whole host of teams who are all at virtually the same level via different means, but compared to where it's been in the past we're in a pretty good state.

For what it's worth, I eventually moved into 5* land because I felt like I was using Gamora/Grocket 90%+ of the time anyway, so I might as well move on to a new, stronger kind of repetition. While different opponents help a bit, I find most of the tedium comes from using the same team constantly yourself, rather than facing the same teams. Which in some ways in another reason you might want to stay in 4* territory, where the featured/required 4*s actually matter and come into use. When you're using 5*s, the required character is often just a complete passenger.

Mujo5

I score 900 in PvP in slice 1 just by playing in the last 8 hours. Thanos, loaner, Chavez. Thanos purple shuts down Thor nicely. DD or black bolt are alternatives to Chavez. 

Huntah86

I use JJ and half health Thor and find it really easy to get 1k in slice 1. I usually go to 300 right away, go up to 650 with a day and a half left then try for 1200 around the 8 hour mark. Its been pretty easy to get to 1k and Ill hit 1200 pretty easy maybe every other event. I never play the last hour so I cant speak for your specific question but personally I love being at the 5* level.

CHRISJN

Yes, it is basically hard in 5* to climb 900pts than 4*, but there is another option. If you dont care about placement and only want progression cp and 4* cover, is go by 40 wins. If You can, go to 75wins.
I usually join very early in slice 3 and immediately start when the slice I selected started (roughly 2d xxhrs). Not many people are playing seriously at this hour, so slowly doing it is fine. i can get to 75 maybe after 4-5 hrs of continuous play. Float for the most of the event then hit retals on the last 8hrs where those points become higher. This option though needs health packs and dedicated time. 

jredd

OJSP said:

jredd said:

hover around 100th place

What does this achieve?

keeps you from being a high value target. reduces the amount of hits you take. you go higher you're gonna get hit more. you don't shield that's about the point you'll get beat down to. saves shields, saves frustrating losses.

DFiPL

Daredevil217 said:

DFiPL said:

I've never - either as a 4* player or as a 5* player - found the climb to 900 to be a 'waltz.' 

That’s so weird because I remember a time when that push from 800 to 900 was a real struggle. Then it just stopped. I swear while there are a few exceptions, I mostly just push to 900 in one run and at most take 3 hits and many times none at all. I don’t know if it’s because I built my roster wide (almost all champed but none over level 310) and not tall and so I’m more protected from 5* teams? It’s a pretty good place and scary to leave.

When I was firmly in 4* land, popping my head over 800 or so was prelude to a 2-300 point smackdown. Without fail. Even the one time I attempted a shield hop for a Peggy cover.

Since transitioning to 5*, I still get hit when I pop over 800 (because I don't have max-champion 5*, doncha know) but I can usually push through that and still hit 900 proper. Though with the 40 wins threshold, I also don't sweat looking for high-value targets and just look for low-stress teams since I know I'll get there sooner or later.

I hear different stories from people who are more serious PVPers than I am/was, about 900 being easier to get to, and I really don't know why my experience was so different prior to having 5* champions.

All I know is since wins-based, I hit 900 2-3 times per PvP routinely; before that, even with 5* champions, I think I MIGHT have hit 900 once EVER.

Daredevil217

CHRISJN said:

Yes, it is basically hard in 5* to climb 900pts than 4*, but there is another option. If you dont care about placement and only want progression cp and 4* cover, is go by 40 wins. If You can, go to 75wins.
I usually join very early in slice 3 and immediately start when the slice I selected started (roughly 2d xxhrs). Not many people are playing seriously at this hour, so slowly doing it is fine. i can get to 75 maybe after 4-5 hrs of continuous play. Float for the most of the event then hit retals on the last 8hrs where those points become higher. This option though needs health packs and dedicated time. 

75 wins through the 5* slog and 4-5 hours!!? 

So essentially I’d be trading faster PvP for faster PvE (though that PVP is wayyyyy slower than I’m used to). 

Pants1000

I don’t play much PVP, but I wanted to post about getting stuck using a few characters.

Since Gambit got nerfed there are lots of viable teams.  I pull classics so my roster is very different from most, but I now have 10 5* champs, and I use almost all of them regularly.  Ok Doc Ock is mostly just used as Thanos fodder, but the rest are useful. 

OML/Phoenix, Panthos, Hawkeye/Coulson, BB/Surfer, BB/OML, and OML/Strange are all combos I use frequently, plus I include boosted 4’s in there.  America with a boosted/champed 5* is fun in PVE too.

If you champ 2-3 5’s first, yes you’ll use them a lot, but it gets better as you champ more, and if you get a few 4’s to 350-370 many of them are great too.  Last week I used Peggy/Vulture when both were boosted, and they worked great.