Duel Decks: Zendikar vs Eldrazi - Feedback

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  • Sarahschmara
    Sarahschmara Posts: 554 Critical Contributor
    bken1234 said:
    journeymage said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    All the pre AER pw decks are made by player submissions, but the contest was restricted by specific conditions (set, rarity). If you see only the set they're from, the decks are great - but that never has been the way they're used. Everything after aer looks like randomly generated 
    Theyve been altered haven't they? I thought theyd been changed from the decks submitted.

    Whch ones do you think are great?
    Yes. They were altered and the winners were never announced. They contest was a stain on this community. 
    Oh, they announced the winners but they never credited them otherwise despite promises to do so. Another fairly simple opportunity for D3Go to earn favor with the community just totally ignored. :(
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sarahschmara said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Some of the new cards are definitely playable in legacy.  Just mostly not the ones in the pre-built decks (but a couple of the mythics seem fun).

    My biggest issue is the lack of synergy in the Eldrazi deck.  You ingest a lot of gems, but almost none of your cards have devoid.  That just means that you are hurt by the void gems just as much as Nissa, which kind of defeats that point.  I have put that in both feedback forms, btw.
    I came here to say this. It’s really frustrating! As much as I love ulamog, there’s no point if none of *my* cards have devoid. 
    The plus side is if you have been around for more than 2.5 years and have a huge BFZ block collection, you can build a devoid deck for the borefest phases. 

    Glass 1/16 full? 

    Horray for the 1%? 

    Yah, I’ve got nothing. 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sarahschmara said:
    bken1234 said:
    journeymage said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    All the pre AER pw decks are made by player submissions, but the contest was restricted by specific conditions (set, rarity). If you see only the set they're from, the decks are great - but that never has been the way they're used. Everything after aer looks like randomly generated 
    Theyve been altered haven't they? I thought theyd been changed from the decks submitted.

    Whch ones do you think are great?
    Yes. They were altered and the winners were never announced. They contest was a stain on this community. 
    Oh, they announced the winners but they never credited them otherwise despite promises to do so. Another fairly simple opportunity for D3Go to earn favor with the community just totally ignored. :(
    To be fair — the contest was a Hibernum thing. (It’s a thin and confusing line.) However I don’t remmener ever seeing winners announced. Do you have a link? 
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    This is a huge problem in paper Magic as well.  When making preconstructed decks, it's extremely difficult to balance the power level.

    Example:  Duel Decks Knights Vs Dragons sounded fun and flavorful, but the Knights deck was filled with a bunch of 2/2 non-flying creatures, and they were roundly trounced by the Dragon deck, which contained giant flyers which could pump themselves up and deal direct damage.

    Example:  Deckmasters Garfield vs Finkel featured a deck designed by the person who invented Magic the Gathering (Richard Garfield) and another deck designed by professional Magic player Jon Finkel.  However, in actual playtesting, the Finkel deck would beat the Garfield deck like 100 times out of 100.  So, they had to Nerf the Finkel deck and asked Finkel to help design the "Garfield" deck.

    I do like the fact that they're trying something new, and I also love the fact that they actually playtested the event with actual players.  Going forward, I think the first phase of this event would be greatly improved if people could design their own deck from a pool of cards.  So, instead of having "these 10 cards, take it or leave it", they might have a pool of 30 or 40 cards from which they can make a 10 card deck.

    ****

    I didn't participate in the Beta test of Zendikar vs Eldrazi, but is there any reason in the world to play anything but Nissa?  You can put any colorless card into Nissa, as well as any green card.  So, she has access to about 723 total cards, whereas Eldrazi only has access to about 317 total cards (128% more cards in Nissa's pool).

    Or, do they treat Eldrazi like Karn, where you can play any color card?  If so, wouldn't Eldrazi be the best bet if they can play 2,152 cards vs Nissa's 723?
  • Boogeyman
    Boogeyman Posts: 223 Tile Toppler
    Eldrazi can play any card.  At least in the Beta
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Boogeyman said:
    Eldrazi can play any card.  At least in the Beta
    No. He’s blocked from green. 
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    Sarahschmara said:
    bken1234 said:
    journeymage said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    All the pre AER pw decks are made by player submissions, but the contest was restricted by specific conditions (set, rarity). If you see only the set they're from, the decks are great - but that never has been the way they're used. Everything after aer looks like randomly generated 
    Theyve been altered haven't they? I thought theyd been changed from the decks submitted.

    Whch ones do you think are great?
    Yes. They were altered and the winners were never announced. They contest was a stain on this community. 
    Oh, they announced the winners but they never credited them otherwise despite promises to do so. Another fairly simple opportunity for D3Go to earn favor with the community just totally ignored. :(
    To be fair — the contest was a Hibernum thing. (It’s a thin and confusing line.) However I don’t remmener ever seeing winners announced. Do you have a link? 

    I don't think they were ever announced. The contest was in Feb 2017. In July there was an inquiry:

    I think that was the last we heard.

    Note that there WERE a couple of contests for Nissa2 and Ob that involved writing detailed guides..I remember Majincob won for one of them.  I  think that was a separate contest.



  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Boogeyman said:
    Eldrazi can play any card.  At least in the Beta
    Any non-green card, unless that changed.
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    edited October 2018
    OK now for Nissa it's Pauper (common, unc only) and freaking prodigal (11m > only), so you can't use ANY OF THE GREEN MANA CHANGERS.  None of the supports, none of the spells.  They are all cheap, for a reason, and are a backbone of green.  

    So we have a mono green walker, with only expensive cards, and no mana generation.  I thought the objectives could not be worse, but I see I was wrong.  Thanks.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    Holy Mackerel!  Thanks for letting me know.  So, in Eldrazi, I can mash together everything from Nicol Bolas plus Oath of the Gatewatch and Luminarch Ascension, and in Nissa, I can play Rhox Maulers.

    Glad I checked this thread before committing to a side.
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    Addendum:  I went off and counted how many total cards are available to Nissa.

    • Spells:  12.  TWELVE!  How many do you think it is for Mr. Eldrazi, assuming he is running (<11m) and can't use green?  Make a guess.  Or don't, I added it up for you.  He can choose from 298.  
    • Supports:  16.  
    • Creatures:  110.  Not that it matters, since you really only want two or maybe three at most given Nissa makes tokens.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    ManiiNames said:
    OK now for Nissa it's Pauper (common, unc only) and freaking prodigal (11m > only), so you can't use ANY OF THE GREEN MANA CHANGERS.  None of the supports, none of the spells.  They are all cheap, for a reason, and are a backbone of green.  

    So we have a mono green walker, with only expensive cards, and no mana generation.  I thought the objectives could not be worse, but I see I was wrong.  Thanks.
    You don’t have to complete the 2 objectives at the same time. You can go one at a time and then play whatever you want. 
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    Bken that assumes that during the actual part which counts, the final duel, that meeting objectives is pointless.  If it's 'just win baby' then we can break out the mythics and say ~blargh~ to the objectives.  We couldn't tell last week if it mattered or not, but since it does in literally every other event it probably does here too.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    I build one deck for pauper, got it, did another one for the costs, got it now I build a deck that is fun to play.

    Recharge rate is horrible. I can't believe that this is what players actually wanted. This could've been our only way to get some runes at an achievable speed!
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    ManiiNames said:
    Bken that assumes that during the actual part which counts, the final duel, that meeting objectives is pointless.  If it's 'just win baby' then we can break out the mythics and say ~blargh~ to the objectives.  We couldn't tell last week if it mattered or not, but since it does in literally every other event it probably does here too.
    I think objectives don’t count because you get no recognition for meeting them. However. See my feedback earlier in this thread — until they tell me they count, I’m playing fun decks. 

    And if they do count, I’m taking up a new hobby because they are not fun or interesting or worth my time. 
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    bken1234 said:

    And if they do count, I’m taking up a new hobby because they are not fun or interesting or worth my time. 
    Yes.
  • Firinmahlazer
    Firinmahlazer Posts: 417 Mover and Shaker
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    I build one deck for pauper, got it, did another one for the costs, got it now I build a deck that is fun to play.

    Recharge rate is horrible. I can't believe that this is what players actually wanted. This could've been our only way to get some runes at an achievable speed!
    Based on what I can tell players didn't want the slow recharge.

    Note to anyone new to the event. If you get paired up with someone on your side when you start the match it WILL freeze and you'll have to restart and you will lose a charge. Yes it sucks. 
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    edited October 2018
    Yep.  Same bugs as last week.  My first match was fine, second was Nissa v Nissa, which froze the game.  Third match played fine.  You can't even quit though, have to force close the game and restart the whole thing.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2018
    Here is what I submitted and since we've got the same event...nothing changes in what I'm saying. So no point in rewriting. 


     
      1. The 1st phase is a great concept but needs to have a better build design for the events. There was very little in the way of synergy for The Eldrazi Desolation deck. It had no where near the level of fun and enjoyment that Nissa had. Also, I loved the theme of your objectives in the first beta, this time around I do not at all. The theme matters and I feel that Beta #2 failed to provide a thematic objective.
     
    2. Bringing me to the Objectives. Keep them thematic. This event’s objectives would be great in a coalition event node. I felt it created a very big gap between new players and veterans. Since newer players should be able to play alongside a veteran, the objectives you placed favored the veterans regardless of rarity. The higher cost restriction might as well have been mythic cards considering that newer players are not likely to have anywhere near the level of choices that a veteran player would have.
     
    3. phase 2: What is the point of this phase? I could skip this phase and not even notice any difference in how the event plays out.
     
    4. Objectives achieved in phase 2 are carried over into phase 3 and are showing as having been already achieved. Why is this necessary to show in phase 3 if we do not have to work for meeting the objectives? This should be removed for phase 3 or….
     
    5. … make the objectives in phase 3 count for the clash bar for every fight they win and meet the objectives, the points count towards the clash bar. If they do not meet the objectives, then they still get the runes for the win, should they do so, but no points are applied to the clash bar for the team. The objectives for this phase should be simple like Beta #1 but difficult enough so that some mild deck building adjustments are needed.
     
    6. The recharge times for BETA #2 nodes were horrible for this kind of event. We already have events that move this slow and the feel of competition was not there this time around. Beta #1 was fantastic in this regard. The 10 min recharge rate was intense, fast and satisfyingly competitive as well as refreshingly different from the other events. Beta #2 lost all of the feeling of this intensity. While I do agree that the present objectives justified the need for such a long recharge rate I much rather prefer the high speed battles of Beta #1.
     
    7. Mega coalitions organizing players to all pick the same side makes the event pointless and unfair. Here is why.
    a. Mega coalitions ensure the win by stacking one side for the win so that they all receive the winning reward prizes.
    b. If players from outside the coalition get wind of this stacking, all they have to do is play phase 1, choose the stacked side, play phase two to clear the one-time-only objective, then sit back and let the mega coalition play in phase three and receive the winning reward with literally no effort at all given into the event. I know, because I did exactly that to test the theory. This is unfair to those who worked hard on the event, despite the stacking to earn the rewards in their favor.
    c. The stacking process takes away the sense of competition.
    d. Another App uses losing side bonuses in a limited capacity. For short periods the losing side gains a bonus. Maybe in PQ you could provide the losing side a randomly supplied 1 hour indestructible support that favors the losing side heavily. I think this will encourage players to constantly check into he app and see if a limited time bonus is applied to regain lost ground. This method can heavily offset stacking.
     
    8. Mythic card purchases should not be 300 crystals considering the limited edition and the fact that they are legacy cards. In beta #1, 200 was perfect; as was 150 for rares.
     
    9. phase 1 length is good. Phase 2 was too long for something that has no bearing on the outcome of the event. And phase 3 was too short. Please consider a 24 hour run for phase 3.
     
    10. Rewards. Making this event Rune heavy with a high refresh rate was a good move for Beta 1. Beta #2 runes and refresh rate made the event something akin to what we already play and can receive better rewards from playing TG repeatedly by the time one refresh for Beta #2 occurred. While I understand that having a high refresh rate with high runes seems excessive. Keep in mind that the number of PW being released is almost 6 to 8 times more than a year ago. If you brought back the speed of Beta #1 I would make the event a once a month deal and let players grind for runes as much as they possibly can to level their planeswalkers. This would make for a very happy player base.
     
     

     
  • stikxs
    stikxs Posts: 533 Critical Contributor
    bken1234 said:
    ManiiNames said:
    OK now for Nissa it's Pauper (common, unc only) and freaking prodigal (11m > only), so you can't use ANY OF THE GREEN MANA CHANGERS.  None of the supports, none of the spells.  They are all cheap, for a reason, and are a backbone of green.  

    So we have a mono green walker, with only expensive cards, and no mana generation.  I thought the objectives could not be worse, but I see I was wrong.  Thanks.
    You don’t have to complete the 2 objectives at the same time. You can go one at a time and then play whatever you want. 
    That is true, however in my 3 charges I got Nissa vs. Nissa twice in a row. One charge = do them together. Buggy game is buggy.

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