Gambit Character Update Details (6/26/18)

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Comments

  • Smart80
    Smart80 Posts: 748 Critical Contributor
    huktonfonix said:
    @Brigby

    Can we get a comment on the decision process behind who to include in the compensation vault?  This is the second such vault in a row where every 5* in the game except Gambit (for obvious reasons) and Doctor Octopus are included.  Was Ock deliberately left out because he is widely considered to be useless and therefore undesirable as compensation for selling off a 5*?  This seems like a strange decision given that Banner is included and is perceived similarly to Ock.
    To add on to this

    could you please make the vault a little less diluted? Make couple smaller options perhaps. Getting like 10 random covers wont do very much good if spread around 10 toons imo..
  • Gold_Dragon
    Gold_Dragon Posts: 101 Tile Toppler
    He’s still usable. I don’t get the “he’ll never be used again!” Talk. 
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,166 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Dormammu said:

    Do they lack the resources to do this? Do they not have a reliable source of QA data?
    Do they only want to read through three hundred complaints about nerfing a character once, instead of each time a small tweak is made?    >:)
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    GrimSkald said:


    To be fair, Gambit nerfed down to the low tier (which is, I think, what's going to happen,) is much better for the long-term health of the game than leaving him God-Tier.

    You know there are more than those two options, right? And that is what people are upset about.  It's like they go way too far in either direction and can never truly balance.

    Blocking out friendly powers didn't really matter when you wouldn't fire any powers other than his anyway.  Now that every single power has been gutted, leaving that restriction on him turns him into a liability.  At least Ock and Banner don't do anything to actively harm their allies.

    When Gambit was tweaked the first time I swear a developer said they wanted to take a different approach and enact smaller changes and see how that goes, as not to obliterate a fan favorite.  Now, that was when there was still tons of money to be made, but this seems like a complete 180 from that.  Or, that was never actually stated, and I'm dreaming it.  Not sure.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    GrimSkald said:


    To be fair, Gambit nerfed down to the low tier (which is, I think, what's going to happen,) is much better for the long-term health of the game than leaving him God-Tier.

    You know there are more than those two options, right? And that is what people are upset about.  It's like they go way too far in either direction and can never truly balance.

    Blocking out friendly powers didn't really matter when you wouldn't fire any powers other than his anyway.  Now that every single power has been gutted, leaving that restriction on him turns him into a liability.  At least Ock and Banner don't do anything to actively harm their allies.

    When Gambit was tweaked the first time I swear a developer said they wanted to take a different approach and enact smaller changes and see how that goes, as not to obliterate a fan favorite.  Now, that was when there was still tons of money to be made, but this seems like a complete 180 from that.  Or, that was never actually stated, and I'm dreaming it.  Not sure.
    That was more about the 0/0/5 Gambat strategy, more specifically the 3* version. Giving that restriction to the 5* hurt those that only got his black cover, which is my guess to why they added the ap destruction in the first place.
    Now that the ap destruction is gone, a 0/0/x Gambit is useless until he is stunned or downed. So I think it makes sense to remove the teammate restriction.

    I just champed him, haven't even tried him out in pvp at full strength yet. I am not disappointed that he got nerfed, and I don't know how bad he will actually play. But I do hope they take a look and tweak him a little before release
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:

    That was more about the 0/0/5 Gambat strategy, more specifically the 3* version. Giving that restriction to the 5* hurt those that only got his black cover, which is my guess to why they added the ap destruction in the first place.
    Now that the ap destruction is gone, a 0/0/x Gambit is useless until he is stunned or downed. So I think it makes sense to remove the teammate restriction.

    I just champed him, haven't even tried him out in pvp at full strength yet. I am not disappointed that he got nerfed, and I don't know how bad he will actually play. But I do hope they take a look and tweak him a little before release
    Ah.  Thanks for the clarification, and I agree with tweaking him, before release.  Now where is @The rockett to make a poll on this? lol.

    CharlieCroker said:

    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.
    This is an excellent point.  I know it will be unpopular but I absolutely agree.


  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gold_Dragon said:
    He’s still usable. I don’t get the “he’ll never be used again!” Talk. 
    Useable and competitive are 2 very different things
  • Player1575
    Player1575 Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    CharlieCroker said:
    Daiches said:
    Meander said:
    Balefire said:
    @Brigby

    I picked up Gambit when opening a hoard so have a fair number of extra levels.  While it sounds like he has lost a lot of viability, completely selling him off with no way to rebuild him easily to 450 seems like overkill. Please float the idea of allowing to break champ levels for cashing in to the Marvel Legends store while still retaining the fully covered and max level character for PVE 5E node use.  Thank you.
    This was a great idea that I didn't see addressed. 

    @Brigby is there any way to make this happen so we still have Gambit for pve but still can sell off our excess?
    We will still need Gambit for Essentials in PVE, so selling fully is a fool's errand.
    This is a better proposition.
    However 46 Champ levels spread out over 20 characters in tokens helps me in no way. A bump of 2 levels per character, some Classics still unchamped, is in no way a recompensation.
    Letting us freely move as many Champ levels as we want to characters of our choice would be.
    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.

    One caveat to this - you have a minor point as far as needing Gambit for PVE goes, but he'll be essential once in a blue moon.  Perhaps CS should give one Gambit cover back as part of the process for anyone that does sell a champed Gambit.
    I think you may be a bit confused. They aren't asking to exchange their 40 champ levels on gambit for 40 levels on thor/jj/etc. They're asking for 40 tokens to the marvel Legends store in exchange for their champ levels. A store that has over 20 5*s in it. Meaning with 40 pulls they likely wouldn't even get 5 covers of thor/jj/etc.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    Player1575 said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    Daiches said:
    Meander said:
    Balefire said:
    @Brigby

    I picked up Gambit when opening a hoard so have a fair number of extra levels.  While it sounds like he has lost a lot of viability, completely selling him off with no way to rebuild him easily to 450 seems like overkill. Please float the idea of allowing to break champ levels for cashing in to the Marvel Legends store while still retaining the fully covered and max level character for PVE 5E node use.  Thank you.
    This was a great idea that I didn't see addressed. 

    @Brigby is there any way to make this happen so we still have Gambit for pve but still can sell off our excess?
    We will still need Gambit for Essentials in PVE, so selling fully is a fool's errand.
    This is a better proposition.
    However 46 Champ levels spread out over 20 characters in tokens helps me in no way. A bump of 2 levels per character, some Classics still unchamped, is in no way a recompensation.
    Letting us freely move as many Champ levels as we want to characters of our choice would be.
    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.

    One caveat to this - you have a minor point as far as needing Gambit for PVE goes, but he'll be essential once in a blue moon.  Perhaps CS should give one Gambit cover back as part of the process for anyone that does sell a champed Gambit.
    I think you may be a bit confused. They aren't asking to exchange their 40 champ levels on gambit for 40 levels on thor/jj/etc. They're asking for 40 tokens to the marvel Legends store in exchange for their champ levels. A store that has over 20 5*s in it. Meaning with 40 pulls they likely wouldn't even get 5 covers of thor/jj/etc.
    No. I am going a step further in my comment and asking straight swaps to specific characters, as tokens don't help me in the slightest with such a giant dilution. Raising a dozen characters from 460
    to 462 does not replace a near 500 in any way you look at it.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    Player1575 said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    Daiches said:
    Meander said:
    Balefire said:
    @Brigby

    I picked up Gambit when opening a hoard so have a fair number of extra levels.  While it sounds like he has lost a lot of viability, completely selling him off with no way to rebuild him easily to 450 seems like overkill. Please float the idea of allowing to break champ levels for cashing in to the Marvel Legends store while still retaining the fully covered and max level character for PVE 5E node use.  Thank you.
    This was a great idea that I didn't see addressed. 

    @Brigby is there any way to make this happen so we still have Gambit for pve but still can sell off our excess?
    We will still need Gambit for Essentials in PVE, so selling fully is a fool's errand.
    This is a better proposition.
    However 46 Champ levels spread out over 20 characters in tokens helps me in no way. A bump of 2 levels per character, some Classics still unchamped, is in no way a recompensation.
    Letting us freely move as many Champ levels as we want to characters of our choice would be.
    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.

    One caveat to this - you have a minor point as far as needing Gambit for PVE goes, but he'll be essential once in a blue moon.  Perhaps CS should give one Gambit cover back as part of the process for anyone that does sell a champed Gambit.
    I think you may be a bit confused. They aren't asking to exchange their 40 champ levels on gambit for 40 levels on thor/jj/etc. They're asking for 40 tokens to the marvel Legends store in exchange for their champ levels. A store that has over 20 5*s in it. Meaning with 40 pulls they likely wouldn't even get 5 covers of thor/jj/etc.
    That was the original premise but Daiches' previous post went further than that.  I'm not a fan either way, and can't imagine CS would provide the support needed (although they will have extra capacity after the swap service ends....).


  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Player1575 said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    Daiches said:
    Meander said:
    Balefire said:
    @Brigby

    I picked up Gambit when opening a hoard so have a fair number of extra levels.  While it sounds like he has lost a lot of viability, completely selling him off with no way to rebuild him easily to 450 seems like overkill. Please float the idea of allowing to break champ levels for cashing in to the Marvel Legends store while still retaining the fully covered and max level character for PVE 5E node use.  Thank you.
    This was a great idea that I didn't see addressed. 

    @Brigby is there any way to make this happen so we still have Gambit for pve but still can sell off our excess?
    We will still need Gambit for Essentials in PVE, so selling fully is a fool's errand.
    This is a better proposition.
    However 46 Champ levels spread out over 20 characters in tokens helps me in no way. A bump of 2 levels per character, some Classics still unchamped, is in no way a recompensation.
    Letting us freely move as many Champ levels as we want to characters of our choice would be.
    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.

    One caveat to this - you have a minor point as far as needing Gambit for PVE goes, but he'll be essential once in a blue moon.  Perhaps CS should give one Gambit cover back as part of the process for anyone that does sell a champed Gambit.
    I think you may be a bit confused. They aren't asking to exchange their 40 champ levels on gambit for 40 levels on thor/jj/etc. They're asking for 40 tokens to the marvel Legends store in exchange for their champ levels. A store that has over 20 5*s in it. Meaning with 40 pulls they likely wouldn't even get 5 covers of thor/jj/etc.
    The excellent point Charlie made still stands:  having a high level gambit gave you/me/them rewards that others did not get.  Look at any pvp thread for people without gambit at all, let alone a 490+ gambit.  You got 25 cp and an LT every other level, so even a level 470 gambit kicked out 10 additional pulls, which statistically is at least one more 5* cover.
  • ramoramo86
    ramoramo86 Posts: 89 Match Maker
    Daiches said:
    Player1575 said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    Daiches said:
    Meander said:
    Balefire said:
    @Brigby

    I picked up Gambit when opening a hoard so have a fair number of extra levels.  While it sounds like he has lost a lot of viability, completely selling him off with no way to rebuild him easily to 450 seems like overkill. Please float the idea of allowing to break champ levels for cashing in to the Marvel Legends store while still retaining the fully covered and max level character for PVE 5E node use.  Thank you.
    This was a great idea that I didn't see addressed. 

    @Brigby is there any way to make this happen so we still have Gambit for pve but still can sell off our excess?
    We will still need Gambit for Essentials in PVE, so selling fully is a fool's errand.
    This is a better proposition.
    However 46 Champ levels spread out over 20 characters in tokens helps me in no way. A bump of 2 levels per character, some Classics still unchamped, is in no way a recompensation.
    Letting us freely move as many Champ levels as we want to characters of our choice would be.
    I'd like to express some opposition to this.

    People with higher level Gambits have been busy dominating competition and raking in top rewards (or just having easier fights) for 9 months.  Now you just want to trade him in for a similarly levelled Thor, JJ or Okoye (or whoever).  Imo you've already reaped rewards and shouldn't get any special treatment. It should be an all-or-nothing exchange if players wish to sell-off their Gambit.

    On top of that, you've already had a significant number of 5* champ rewards from adding levels to Gambit and these are very good.  If you were allowed to say keep a 450 Gambit, but add 50 levels to JJ you'd be doubling down on all those extra LT's, cp, HP and iso.

    One caveat to this - you have a minor point as far as needing Gambit for PVE goes, but he'll be essential once in a blue moon.  Perhaps CS should give one Gambit cover back as part of the process for anyone that does sell a champed Gambit.
    I think you may be a bit confused. They aren't asking to exchange their 40 champ levels on gambit for 40 levels on thor/jj/etc. They're asking for 40 tokens to the marvel Legends store in exchange for their champ levels. A store that has over 20 5*s in it. Meaning with 40 pulls they likely wouldn't even get 5 covers of thor/jj/etc.
    No. I am going a step further in my comment and asking straight swaps to specific characters, as tokens don't help me in the slightest with such a giant dilution. Raising a dozen characters from 460
    to 462 does not replace a near 500 in any way you look at it.
    I think your suggestion will hurt the overall experience of working for and collecting 5* covers. Also, if they did that they would have to do that for OML. This suggestion not only seems biased but, will hurt the overall 5* experience.
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was giving serious thought to selling off Gambit just because I've sold OML before and Gambit before... but at this point with 5* essentials, I might as well just hold onto him and carry on.

    But I look forward to being able to use more of my roster as this change combined with Wins-based PvP progression makes for a lot more variety for my play.
  • ramoramo86
    ramoramo86 Posts: 89 Match Maker
    For everyone that does not like the Gambit neuter, i suggest you spend your money in a wiser fashion moving forward. Personally, i think this is a GREAT move for the game. Gambit was a cash grab and it worked out well. Now, i hope the devs use all the extra money and restore our faith back in the game by giving us new balanced 5*. Oh, and this gambit fix now frees up a huge portion of everyone's roster since you can finally use red and pink powers again.
  • Moon Roach
    Moon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    I is content.  I look forward to not having to spend so much ISO skipping Gambit.
  • beyonderbub
    beyonderbub Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
    Gold_Dragon said:
    He’s still usable. I don’t get the “he’ll never be used again!” Talk. 
    Sure. He'll be used for his turn as the essential 5* node in story mode. Otherwise, he'll be used as often as his 3* version.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Yeah of course they went too far with the nerf.  Honestly he needed two major changes.  

    1.) No AP destruction
    2.) Lower damage for his red power

    I think he still would have been one of the best 5* with those two changes but much more fair to face.  Now he is mediocre at best and maybe bottom five star with all of the changes they did to his powers.  These guys just don't know how to nerf.

    No more $ from me, I will still play F2P but I am done spending money on this game.

    Oh well, on to the 5* Thor nerf talk next. 

    Perhaps Thor's nerf could be something like you only get his passive ability if he loses X health (X being whatever 50% of his maximum health would be) during a match.  That way everyone would have to spend more health packs and couldn't keep using him at 50% or less match after match.  More health pack revenue for D3 and it would balance out the advantage that 5*Thor gives over non-5* Thor rosters.
  • bigsmooth
    bigsmooth Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2018
    Pretty much agree with some of the other analysis that's been posted. There's nothing in Casey's breakdown in the OP that feels totally unreasonable on its own, but when you look at all of the changes in combination, it seems like they are really going to reduce his effectiveness, possibly to where he will warm my bench. In particular, the increase to Aces & Eights' AP cost PLUS the reduced speed/reliability of his red generation PLUS continuing to lock out the red powers of his teammates seems excessive. I do think he was clearly overpowered and something had to give; I will try to reserve judgment until I can try the new build out.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    marshall said:
    At the end of the day, you want to upset the status quo, introduce further variety. Don't think he's as bad as people think. He will definitely not be top tier anymore, which is the goal. And we'll not have characters powers being introduced in an attempt to disrupt him specifically.

    We'll be back to a world of strategy and counterstrategy, as opposed to "bring your Gambit to the Gambit party".
    Actually their stated goal was that they wanted him to still be top tier but he now he will barely be mid tier.  It shows how little the devs understand finesse when it comes to nerfs.  It is always a better strategy to slowing fine tune a character downwards than cut them completely down like this nerf has done.

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