Gambit Character Update Details (6/26/18)

tph_james

I think an easy way to counter overpowered characters without nerfing them is:
Create one 5* character that can completely seal off one single opponent's power of your choice for the entire game either passively or with cheap ap.
Imagine u can prevent gambit's stacked deck, Thanos' court death, OML die hard, BB energy channeling, DD fighting spirit, JJ damning evidence... etc.
In this way, all characters are balanced. Dev will never need to nerf anyone in the future.

LifeofAgony

tph_james said:

I think an easy way to counter overpowered characters without nerfing them is:
Create one 5* character that can completely seal off one single opponent's power of your choice for the entire game either passively or with cheap ap.
Imagine u can prevent gambit's stacked deck, Thanos' court death, OML die hard, BB energy channeling, DD fighting spirit, JJ damning evidence... etc.
In this way, all characters are balanced. Dev will never need to nerf anyone in the future.

So you go from requiring one OP toon gambit to requiring new OP power blocker X?  Doesn’t seem a great plan either.

thedarkphoenix

LavaManLee said:

Going back to the OP, there is one sentence that concerns me more than any other.  The developer's own comments said:

"Archangel's Aerial Superiority and Captain America (Infinity War)'s Man Without a Country powers were both designed with the intention of creating counter-play with Gambit."

This screams out "none of us really play this game at the 5* level and have no idea how it operates".  Did a room full of people who supposedly know the game actually think that either of those powers would counter Gambit?  Each of those powers needed the player to gain the appropriate AP in the first place and then fire to create a countdown tile.  Neither of those powers do more than shoot a spitball at a Gambit team.

If you had asked anyone in the forums with 5* experience, they would have been able to tell you that neither of those powers would be any kind of counter-play with Gambit.  This also explains the megaton-nerf of Gambit : there was no idea how to really balance him so you just destroyed him as a player.

My concern for the longevity of the game is that the 5* game is in the hand of developers who don't really understand 5* play.  JMHO.

I mentioned this to a friend also, there is no way a 5 team of players thought AA or CA was a decent counter to gambit.

And even if they did, how did they go from clearly feeling like AP was the problem to nerfing everything for utility to damage.


For AS to even be close to a counter it would have to cost 6-7, and placed on two different tile colors of choice, otherwise if you put it on red, it gets over  written by purple and if you put it on purple you get get blown up by red. They would also need to be fortified. 

And the green needs to hit a tad harder or be aoe.

tph_james

LifeofAgony said:

tph_james said:

I think an easy way to counter overpowered characters without nerfing them is:
Create one 5* character that can completely seal off one single opponent's power of your choice for the entire game either passively or with cheap ap.
Imagine u can prevent gambit's stacked deck, Thanos' court death, OML die hard, BB energy channeling, DD fighting spirit, JJ damning evidence... etc.
In this way, all characters are balanced. Dev will never need to nerf anyone in the future.

So you go from requiring one OP toon gambit to requiring new OP power blocker X?  Doesn’t seem a great plan either.

This new character X doesn't need to be OP, he/she can be just a support character like America. And he/she can only block one single power of one single opponent. 

WEBGAS

Hoser said:

Typical D3.....Completely destroy any character that players are using alot. This is Old Man Logan II. Why even spend time AND MONEY on this game if D3 is just going to bow to all the new player complaints. These newer people think they should be able to just jump into the game and be competitive. I have played this game since it came out over 4 years ago and I have played EVERY day and have worked to build up my roster, and yes, Gambit. But because newer players express their concerns, forget the players that have played this game religiously for years. This is twice D3....how many more times do you think your dedicated players will put up with this again. 

//Removed Insult -Brigby

How many times? As long as there will be players who will chase after the new shiny toy, that probably will get nerfed in a couple of months and so on....I decided to stop being this kind of player, so I will get what I can and when I will be bored enough I will quit.
Probably they won't care, but at least I would have saved my money 

WEBGAS

thedarkphoenix said:

I mentioned this to a friend also, there is no way a 5 team of players thought AA or CA was a decent counter to gambit.

And even if they did, how did they go from clearly feeling like AP was the problem to nerfing everything for utility to damage.


For AS to even be close to a counter it would have to cost 6-7, and placed on two different tile colors of choice, otherwise if you put it on red, it gets over  written by purple and if you put it on purple you get get blown up by red. They would also need to be fortified. 

And the green needs to hit a tad harder or be aoe.

Don't you think it should have been better to Buff AA or IWCap or both than killing Gambit? 

MgoBlue51

This escalated quickly. I am all for a rebalance, he was/is obviously broken. But... this? If anyone was asking for this level of nerf, it was purely out of spite. This has to be the hardest nerf I’ve seen in years... might be the final nail in my coffin in terms of playing. Can’t continue to support a game where the trust in the developers has been lost

whitecat31

ramoramo86 said:

Interesting replies and reactions so far. I would like to point out that the same people that threatened to quit and stop spending on this game when OML was nerfed are the same people that did NOT quit playing and kept spending on Gambit. Which are also the same people making the same "threats" again on this thread. Maybe those players need to stop the empty "threats" and actually start taking action.

Took an actual survey did you?

broll

Funniest part of this announcement:
"we set to making 5-Star characters who could compete with Gambit and round out a robust metagame. Archangel's Aerial Superiority and Captain America (Infinity War)'s Man Without a Country powers were both designed with the intention of creating counter-play with Gambit."

So 2 of the 3 worst characters to come out since then were the answer to him?  I literally laughed out loud.  It doesn't seem that hard to make a Gambit counter. 

Character 1, passive that blocks the creation of charged tiles.  This would make him/her a huge counter for both Gambit and Black Bolt.  Then give him/her normalish powers for the other two so they aren't only usable as a counter.

Character 2, passive that blocks all countdown tile creation.  This would make him/her a huge counter for several other 5*s including Gambit, Hawkeye, & Ghost Rider.  Then give him/her normalish powers for the other two so they aren't only usable as a counter.

Oddest part of the announcement:
While the advanced announcement is nice, I'm not sure what the point really is.  It would be nice if they announced the nerf but also gave players the option to test the new version and provide feedback so we get a reasonable change vs an over or under nerf.

Smart80

tph_james said:

LifeofAgony said:

tph_james said:

I think an easy way to counter overpowered characters without nerfing them is:
Create one 5* character that can completely seal off one single opponent's power of your choice for the entire game either passively or with cheap ap.
Imagine u can prevent gambit's stacked deck, Thanos' court death, OML die hard, BB energy channeling, DD fighting spirit, JJ damning evidence... etc.
In this way, all characters are balanced. Dev will never need to nerf anyone in the future.

So you go from requiring one OP toon gambit to requiring new OP power blocker X?  Doesn’t seem a great plan either.

This new character X doesn't need to be OP, he/she can be just a support character like America. And he/she can only block one single power of one single opponent. 

If HoboCap purple would have included passives, he wouldnt be as useless and we’d have our counter for Gambit already and nobody had to be snipped.. Archangel black with a special tile instead of regular countdown would have helped as well..

Simple paper, rock, scissors.. no need to destroy the paper just because it covers rock... just create a scissor to deal with it. After thats too dominant, create a nice new rock. Or add lizzard, Spock in the mix as well off course... ;-)

thedarkphoenix

WEBGAS said:

thedarkphoenix said:

I mentioned this to a friend also, there is no way a 5 team of players thought AA or CA was a decent counter to gambit.

And even if they did, how did they go from clearly feeling like AP was the problem to nerfing everything for utility to damage.


For AS to even be close to a counter it would have to cost 6-7, and placed on two different tile colors of choice, otherwise if you put it on red, it gets over  written by purple and if you put it on purple you get get blown up by red. They would also need to be fortified. 

And the green needs to hit a tad harder or be aoe.

Don't you think it should have been better to Buff AA or IWCap or both than killing Gambit? 

That should have been the 1st thing done, it would have killed 3 birds with one stone.

AA buff would have made AA owners happy, and buffed a 5 that could use a slight tweak. A cap buff would have also buffed a character that is somewhat lackluster and provided a hard counter for gambit. 


Now they wouldn't have to nerf gambit, unless they wanted to change his purple for pve purposes and pvp would be interesting because gambit would have counters but still strong which mean he would still get played and countered. But it wouldn't just shift from gambit and thor to JJ and thor like its about too.... You have gambit, thor, cap, AA JJ and Okoye at the very least all in the mix.

GrimSkald

Soft counters are only as good as the characters they are on, and if the character they're countering is honest-to-goodness OP, as opposed to having an OP side effect, the only "soft counter" is to raise the bar.  As people said, they either needed to make every new character as powerful as Gambit (and thereby invalidate every character before Gambit,) or else nerf Gambit.  They clearly did not do the former, so the latter is absolutely necessary.

ramoramo86

whitecat31 said:

ramoramo86 said:

Interesting replies and reactions so far. I would like to point out that the same people that threatened to quit and stop spending on this game when OML was nerfed are the same people that did NOT quit playing and kept spending on Gambit. Which are also the same people making the same "threats" again on this thread. Maybe those players need to stop the empty "threats" and actually start taking action.

Took an actual survey did you?

Whitecat, my favorite enforcer. How you been? To answer your question, no i did not but, sometimes you don't need a survey to be able to see, remember and point out the obvious. I appreciate your reply.

Straycat

WEBGAS said:

Don't you think it should have been better to Buff AA or IWCap or both than killing Gambit? 

No!

Buff the weak and/or niche 5*s? Yes please!

Nerf vs overnerf Gambit? Sure, change one or two powers, but keep him top tier.

Overnerfing vs not nerfing at all? Overnerf him.

There's no way to buff others enough to deal with him if he was left as is. His auto ap gets him started before any counter can, and his ap destruction makes sure of it. 

I guess you could turn some of it passive, or make more Gambit specific moves, but longterm that just makes them too niche. As is, AA is a mess because he is all reactionary. He is a Vulture counter and a Gambit counter, but on his own he is nothing.

Besides, Gambit already had a counter, another Gambit.

Treras

Aa and beardCap need some love now.  Unless the plan was for them to counter gamgod after the nerf goes live.
.

celtickliq

@Brigby – are you and the team able to confirm (or possibly deny) something with this alleged character restructuring?

Will the winfinite team of Bagman at (3/5/5) and 5 star Gambit at (3/5/5), a.k.a. Bagbit, continue to double A.P. generate once the Webslinger power is fired?

Hoping so. That team is a legend in my head and was such a wonderful hidden nugget to play with. 

thedarkphoenix

Straycat said:

WEBGAS said:

Don't you think it should have been better to Buff AA or IWCap or both than killing Gambit? 

No!

Buff the weak and/or niche 5*s? Yes please!

Nerf vs overnerf Gambit? Sure, change one or two powers, but keep him top tier.

Overnerfing vs not nerfing at all? Overnerf him.

There's no way to buff others enough to deal with him if he was left as is. His auto ap gets him started before any counter can, and his ap destruction makes sure of it. 

I guess you could turn some of it passive, or make more Gambit specific moves, but longterm that just makes them too niche. As is, AA is a mess because he is all reactionary. He is a Vulture counter and a Gambit counter, but on his own he is nothing.

Besides, Gambit already had a counter, another Gambit.

Not really, AA alone could seriously cripple gambit if he could pick the two color's he wanted to deny. A 7 black AP shut down that would kill his red and purple ap gains for 5 turns then do damage unless matched away...

Yeah that's pretty big.

But the fact that it's either or and his blue cost a ton for a stun... he was a miss.

Daiches

I could have sworn there were 14 pages instead of 13 in this discussion. Are comments getting nerfed too?

qandols

When will he be nerfed, he's still what he was in my roster?

BlackWidower

Daiches said:

I could have sworn there were 14 pages instead of 13 in this discussion. Are comments getting nerfed too?

Yes, they are,

qandols said:

When will he be nerfed, he's still what he was in my roster?

Brigby said:

We know how hard people work to earn a 5-Star character, and it can feel bad to have a thing you invested time into change. So, in addition to the compensation plan outlined below if you choose to sell your Gambit, we're communicating this change a full season in advance. So, if you finally just got your Gambit, you still have a season to use him as you expected.