New Gambit nerf

Borstock

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

Dartmaster01

Yeah, like I said, Gambit is still the best on defense. My Okoye is 457 without the boost and could easily beat 550s, I use 500 as an example because at that level Gambit is still a completely trivial affair. I don't even look at enemy levels anymore.

elko90

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

Me and an alliance mate who has JJ and Cap as champions had a test with his team he beat gambit and thor everytime but he lost a couple of time when i had DD and Thor so there you go 

Sm0keyJ0e

elko90 said:

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

Me and an alliance mate who has JJ and Cap as champions had a test with his team he beat gambit and thor everytime but he lost a couple of time when i had DD and Thor so there you go 

All this proves is that your alliancemate doesn't know how to match 3.

WEBGAS

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

I think the same.   On offense. Gthor and Okoye + JJ can do it.... On defense is a little tricky tough

So like previous said, the Devs better concentrate on buffs and creating new valid characters instead of nerfing the few good ones,

elko90

Sm0keyJ0e said:

elko90 said:

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

Me and an alliance mate who has JJ and Cap as champions had a test with his team he beat gambit and thor everytime but he lost a couple of time when i had DD and Thor so there you go 

All this proves is that your alliancemate doesn't know how to match 3.

He doesnt know how to match and yet he still beat gambit

Borstock

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

I didn't list examples because plenty of people already have.

Okoye, Thor, Jessica, a mirror Gambit all rip right through him. When 4*s are boosted, there are also a bunch of solid options.

JHawkInc

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other, it's a futile endeavor on these forums, because most of the commenters that disagree are more interested in proving dissent wrong than actually discussing the matter and figuring out anything resembling the truth.

Borstock

JHawkInc said:

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

Gambit doesn't need a nerf anymore. There are PLENTY of ways to beat him, now. He's fine.

You can’t say that without giving some examples..

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other, it's a futile endeavor on these forums, because most of the commenters that disagree are more interested in proving dissent wrong than actually discussing the matter and figuring out anything resembling the truth.

I mean, did you read all of the posts, though? There are a lot of examples.

Okoye and 50Thor annihilate Gambit.

A mirror-Gambit can beat him because you just hold onto your own red until he fires his red first. He depletes his AP, and you get to start with 2 charged tiles already on the board.

Jessica hits like a tank and he can't steal her traps.

You can bring Archangel and deny him red and/or purple.

When Carol is boosted, you can bring her and make sure your strongest color matches the enemy. Then, every time they make a match in their strongest color, you do HUGE team damage. Plus, if you bring your own Gambit, his CD tiles boost any strikes she puts on the board.

If Medusa and Carnage or something like that are boosted, you can just keep healing yourself and wear him down.

You can bring someone who can stun him, of which there are many.

You can bring someone who can go invisible, who he won't be able to hit until he clears the invisibility tile(s). If you pair that character with someone who drops a lot of specials, you increase the likelihood that his purple won't remove it at all.

The fact that Gambit stops his teammates from using purple or red powers is really big. It enables you to collect yourself until you're ready to start 1-shotting people.

GrimSkald

Gambit is roughly 20%-50% better than any other character.  He really is.  Sure, you can beat him with a good team more than 50% of the time, but Gambit wins against a non-Gambit team, what, 99% of the time?  Maybe 99.5%?  I've been playing Gambit since November of last year - I wipe to Gambit teams probably about 5-10% of the time - rarely, but it does happen.  I think I've wiped to a non Gambit team once or twice in that same time period - out of literally hundreds if not thousands of matches.

The nerf is coming, he's gross.  No character released since comes even close to his power level.  Frankly, it's long over due.  At this point it's only a question of when and how much. 

If you were thinking of entering the 5* tier, I'd wait until it's done.  If you don't have Gambit, you will be meat for the Gambit teams.  If you do have Gambit (and don't have two other top tier 5*s,) if he gets nerfed badly you'll be in bad shape afterward.

Borstock

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

I mean, did you read all of the posts, though? There are a lot of examples.

I have. But not everyone has. In this thread, the only mention of a team before your post was Thor DD.

Borstock said:

When Carol is boosted, you can bring her and make sure your strongest color matches the enemy. Then, every time they make a match in their strongest color, you do HUGE team damage. Plus, if you bring your own Gambit, his CD tiles boost any strikes she puts on the board.

Bringing Gambit to fight Gambit is not exactly an argument against nerfing him.

JJ and Okoye were both mentioned as good characters people don't want to see nerfed as well.

And yes, bringing Gambit to fight Gambit is an argument against nerfing him. No matter which character is at the top of the food chain, you're always going to be well off taking on that character with the mirror. Why? Because that's the best character. Take Gambit away, and the next best character is the new best, and you'll want to bring them AND you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't. Mirror Gambit isn't the only option, but he's a solid one who makes it pretty easy to win that match. I don't know what more you can ask for.

whitecat31

Remember when everybody wanted to nerf Thanos, and they never did, but nerfed old man logan, who was working at intended instead?

huktonfonix

Bowgentle said:

Jabrony_Geoff said:

If they nerf Gambit in a bad way you will see mass game uninstalls like never before.
#justsaying.

I hope all those baby rosters with 452 Gambits and Thors and 280 4s uninstall.
It'll be GLORIOUS.

I don't.  I can't wait to hit their 450 Thor/Archangel teams all day.

Borstock

OJSP said:

Borstock said:

JJ and Okoye were both mentioned as good characters people don't want to see nerfed as well.

Actually I only saw Okoye mentioned before your post. Someone alluded about JJ on the first page. If that’s your defininition of PLENTY, then I don’t know what to say.

It's not the number of times she was mentioned. It's the number of options that were mentioned. But I don't know why we're quibbling about this. I felt there were already examples given. I still do, but even with that being the case, I elaborated just like you asked with examples and why.

ZeroKarma

whitecat31 said:

Remember when everybody wanted to nerf Thanos, and they never did, but nerfed old man logan, who was working at intended instead?

Was Thanos before or after cupcakes were killed? 

Jaedenkaal

Borstock said:

And yes, bringing Gambit to fight Gambit is an argument against nerfing him. No matter which character is at the top of the food chain, you're always going to be well off taking on that character with the mirror. Why? Because that's the best character. Take Gambit away, and the next best character is the new best, and you'll want to bring them AND you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't. Mirror Gambit isn't the only option, but he's a solid one who makes it pretty easy to win that match. I don't know what more you can ask for.

It's an argument against nerfing him (albeit a poor one), but not an argument that he's not too strong. Also, what you're describing is very bad for the diversity and therefore longevity of the game.

It's true that there will always be a "best character", but the gap doesn't have to be so wide that the character is the correct choice 100% of the time.

GrimSkald

This is regarding Borstock's posts, I decided not to quote because this is going to be long enough already.  Please don't see this as a personal attack, but I'm going to go through this point by point, addressing the teams that you brought up.

Okoye/Thor - I don't have any real amount in Okoye so I can't speak to how this team works from the offensive perspective (I've drawn 3 of her so far.)  I've heard that's a great offensive team and is capable of generating a lot of damage.  I doubt it's better against a Gambit team than anything else.

From the other point of view, I have absolutely no hesitation in attacking that team with my GamThor.  I will take on that team all day instead of a team with a Gambit.  I'd say the weakest of the Gambit combos is Gambit/DD, and I think I'd rather take on Thor/Okoye than Gambit/DD.  I'd definitely take on Thor/Okoye than Gambit/Thanos or Gambit/Thor, no question.

No, check that, I'd definitely rather take on Thor/Okoye than Gambit/DD - that team is actually a bit deceptive on defense because it sucks if you mis-time killing Gambit and DD hits you with purple.

Jessica Jones is capable of generating some good damage, but Gambit's AP drain and strike removal definitely gives him a huge edge over her.  Her blue is really random, particularly on defense - sometimes it hits multiple times, sometimes it doesn't hit at all.    It's also something you can mitigate by matching the traps.  Also, JJ's powers are moderately expensive (well, they're not cheap, anyway,) so that amplifies the issues with Gambit's AP drain.  All in all, she's hardly a counter to Gambit.   I'm not saying she isn't a good character - she is, quite probably top tier - but she's not close to Gambit in power.

Archangel as a counter to Gambit is not viable.  Archangel can slow Gambit with his black, but Gambit red is what is going to shred your team.  If you don't cover purple, those CDs will just go away in a turn or two, so it's of limited value.  His other two powers are expensive and don't come even close to doing enough.  All in all, Archangel's only real value is as a Vulture counter, I'm afraid.

Bringing a 4* to a 5* fight is, unfortunately, asking to get hit.  Carol is probably the best support 4*, but even if you have her maxed you're going to be a great big target by bringing her out.  Bobby is also pretty good, particularly for his stun, but a real 5* team will murder you.  Sure, all the 4*s can do something, but I'm betting your win to wipe percentage isn't going to be even close to the reverse (a Gambit/whomever against that 4* and whomever team.)

I think the main thrust of this probably too long post is picture the fight on offense, then picture the reverse on defense.  Now compare it to the Gambit/Thor, Gambit/DD, Gambit/Thanos, or the ultimate anti-non-Gambit team, Gambit/BB.  This is just my opinion, but none of those combos come even close to those four teams.

Yes, Gambit stops his teammates from using Red or Purple, and sometimes that gets in your way, but his red is the best in the game, and his purple is among the best.  It's not a huge detraction because he stands so head and shoulders above everyone else.

Daiches

This just in: Offense trumps Defense in a game designed to give the player a 90% win rate over the AI.

Basepuzzler

Daiches said:

This just in: Offense trumps Defense in a game designed to give the player a 90% win rate over the AI.

The only defense is having people skip you instead of someone else.  And if you are one of the only non-gambit queues in a sea of gambits, you lose badly.

LifeofAgony

Gambit is going to be nerfed and has needed the nerf for a long time.  If it costs the company players, shame on them for not listening 8 months ago when that 40 page thread to nerf gambit was running strong with many good suggestions on ways to rebalance him.

Anyone thinking it won’t happen isn’t being realistic at this point: