tiomono said: So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system.
TetsujinOni said: tiomono said: So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system.
tiomono said: Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted?
PenniesForEveryone said:2.) MMR is broken and does a really "good" job of preventing 5* players from really even being able to beat up on a 4* roster who isn't following the established "etiquette". For example - if a 5* roster wants to target a 4* player to really give them a hard time they have to either wait until the 4* roster has a high enough score to break MMR (typically over 900) or break MMR themselves (typically closer to 1200) so that they can queue the 4*, then dump enough points (at least 300) to get low enough so that the hit on the 4* lands for more than a -7, and then climb back up to break MMR and do it again. Very few people have the time/patience/energy for this.
tiomono said: TetsujinOni said: tiomono said: So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system. "Alliance rewards make Versus not a single player competition, so your first premise about the nature of Versus is flawed. Starting from a flawed base will lead to flawed conclusions. "Quoting acting up.It is player versus player, you can hit your own alliance. My premise of versus is not flawed. Versus is flawed.
Phumade said: tiomono said: Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted? LOLA dual 5* champion roster who isn't aware of LINE and basic pvp etiquette either pro or against doesn't exist.The minimum to achieve that roster is significant spending (which means line buyclub) or a very mature roster >500 days min.They know the etiquette and they just dont care.
tiomono So you are trying to say that there are no players with champed 5*s that would not know about line.
Daiches said: tiomono said: TetsujinOni said: tiomono said: So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system. "Alliance rewards make Versus not a single player competition, so your first premise about the nature of Versus is flawed. Starting from a flawed base will lead to flawed conclusions. "Quoting acting up.It is player versus player, you can hit your own alliance. My premise of versus is not flawed. Versus is flawed. It's Versus. It isn't called PVP. Quit trying to define a format on a player given name for that tab and event style.Much like what we all PVE is actually named Story, and is not even true PVE, since it's actually PVP for placement.In Versus points are built by players shielding and allowing points to be added to the shard by getting hit while shielded. The only way to make progression available to players is by doing just that, and the quickest way is to coordinate it. I could point you to S2 or S5 to see just how hard it is to ensure progression for players when that is mostly absent (but even those slices have BCs and checkrooms).
tiomono said: Daiches said: tiomono said: TetsujinOni said: tiomono said: So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system. "Alliance rewards make Versus not a single player competition, so your first premise about the nature of Versus is flawed. Starting from a flawed base will lead to flawed conclusions. "Quoting acting up.It is player versus player, you can hit your own alliance. My premise of versus is not flawed. Versus is flawed. It's Versus. It isn't called PVP. Quit trying to define a format on a player given name for that tab and event style.Much like what we all PVE is actually named Story, and is not even true PVE, since it's actually PVP for placement.In Versus points are built by players shielding and allowing points to be added to the shard by getting hit while shielded. The only way to make progression available to players is by doing just that, and the quickest way is to coordinate it. I could point you to S2 or S5 to see just how hard it is to ensure progression for players when that is mostly absent (but even those slices have BCs and checkrooms). Ok so it's called versus. Take out line ettiqutte and look at what the game presents you with. Who are you being matched against? Everyone with a similar roster to yourself, even your own alliance. That would be why we frequently call it pvp.
tiomono said:Regardless versus as it currently exists is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed.
tiomono said: Phumade said: tiomono said: Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted? LOLA dual 5* champion roster who isn't aware of LINE and basic pvp etiquette either pro or against doesn't exist.The minimum to achieve that roster is significant spending (which means line buyclub) or a very mature roster >500 days min.They know the etiquette and they just dont care. So you are trying to say that there are no players with champed 5*s that would not know about line. That's a big stretch.Regardless versus as it currently exists is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed.
Sm0keyJ0e said: tiomono said:Regardless versus as it currently exists is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed. This is your opinion, and I completely disagree. You look at most leaderboards at the end of events in any slice, and you will see either the largest rosters on top or those who took the most time and shields to get there. What else do you want?Not every reward is meant for every player. This sounds like Shield Training all over again where many players think they deserve to get every single reward the game offers...
tiomono said: Sm0keyJ0e said: tiomono said:Regardless versus as it currently exists is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed. This is your opinion, and I completely disagree. You look at most leaderboards at the end of events in any slice, and you will see either the largest rosters on top or those who took the most time and shields to get there. What else do you want?Not every reward is meant for every player. This sounds like Shield Training all over again where many players think they deserve to get every single reward the game offers... And yet people complain about lack of targets all the time. The way versus operates right now is very off putting for new players and many vets as well. No everyone should not get every reward. I feel we need more interesting rewards at the top so high end players push higher making it easier for 3 star players to get a 3 star cover and 4 star players an easier time getting the 4 star cover. If you are not in the know right now there is no indication as to why you are now struggling more to hit the same rewards you were before you leveled up to the next tier. Mmr is a mess nobody regularly tries to deny that that I have seen. Your float point gets much lower everytime you hit a new star tier, which makes you feel like the game punishes you for leveling up.And yes this is largely my opinion. The same as you saying it's fine as is, is your opinion.
Sm0keyJ0e said: tiomono said: Sm0keyJ0e said: tiomono said:Regardless versus as it currently exists is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed. This is your opinion, and I completely disagree. You look at most leaderboards at the end of events in any slice, and you will see either the largest rosters on top or those who took the most time and shields to get there. What else do you want?Not every reward is meant for every player. This sounds like Shield Training all over again where many players think they deserve to get every single reward the game offers... And yet people complain about lack of targets all the time. The way versus operates right now is very off putting for new players and many vets as well. No everyone should not get every reward. I feel we need more interesting rewards at the top so high end players push higher making it easier for 3 star players to get a 3 star cover and 4 star players an easier time getting the 4 star cover. If you are not in the know right now there is no indication as to why you are now struggling more to hit the same rewards you were before you leveled up to the next tier. Mmr is a mess nobody regularly tries to deny that that I have seen. Your float point gets much lower everytime you hit a new star tier, which makes you feel like the game punishes you for leveling up.And yes this is largely my opinion. The same as you saying it's fine as is, is your opinion. I don't think it's possible to make a perfect system for everyone. The Versus system that's in place now has been tested and tweaked over the years and they continue to do so. You yourself said in a different thread they should not be making whole-sale changes to major feature of the game, so Versus will have to continue to evolve and they should be taking everyone's feedback, from all tiers, into consideration (which I believe they do).My point was simply that I don't agree when you say it is a strangely broken mess in several ways and needs addressed. It has been MUCH more broken in the past and even slight changes to the system now to help one small segment could break it more for everyone.
Dragon_Nexus said: Well, spent the last part of Coversquirrel being hit by the same few people repeatedly.Either I'm getting targetted like the PM threatened, or this jolly co-operation is more mercenary than it seems.