Is there a definitive etiquette for PvP?

BlackWidower

FokaiHI said:

@BlackWidower

if you wish to find a room, create a Line account and pm me. 

@FokaiHI That's really kind of you. 
Some of my alliance members use it, and I just can't be bothered at this time (although it is probably dumb, because I want MPQ to take up less of my life and this would probably do that). 
My alliance uses a different chat program for all of us, then there is in game chat and everything else going on in my own life (emails, chats, junk) that I have no idea why, but I am strangely hesitant to join.  Like Facebook, my god, how I wish I never joined.

Appreciate the offer though and might take you up on it in the future.  Thank you.

PenniesForEveryone

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

Spudgutter

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

The fact that *anyone* is called out to be hit in retaliation, even if for only 10 or 20, is why we have posts like this.  If you can't take getting hit on a climb, then join the group of people pushing for wins based.  

jamesh

Is this whole vendetta thing mostly limited to 5* players?  I'm firmly in the 4* tier, and I don't really remember seeing names repeated often enough to make an impression.  I imagine if the game is only matching you against other 5* players, that cuts down the set of available targets massively.

I also can't remember the last time I got 75 points for a match.  I might get 60+ for my first match if I miss the seed teams, but that's about it.  I guess the game finds more people with similar roster strength closer to my current score?

Phumade

jamesh said:

  I guess the game finds more people with similar roster strength closer to my current score?

yes.  and as your score rises/falls that definition of "similar roster strength" changes.  Ultimately, you have to explore edges of scoring to figure out when things "break" for your roster.  Bigger rosters can get to the edge case scenarios faster than smaller rosters and they can stay in that zone for much longer, before the equilibrium catches up or they get hammered down.

tiomono

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

That just sounds like you reworded what I said. If I hit someone then they throw out an open invite for other people to hit me, I am now being targeted for playing the game the way the game allows me to. It makes no sense to me.

Quebbster

jamesh said:

Is this whole vendetta thing mostly limited to 5* players?  I'm firmly in the 4* tier, and I don't really remember seeing names repeated often enough to make an impression.  I imagine if the game is only matching you against other 5* players, that cuts down the set of available targets massively.

I also can't remember the last time I got 75 points for a match.  I might get 60+ for my first match if I miss the seed teams, but that's about it.  I guess the game finds more people with similar roster strength closer to my current score?

Pretty much, yeah. There aren't that many fivestar players in the game, so you tend to remember who hit you...

PenniesForEveryone

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

That just sounds like you reworded what I said. If I hit someone then they throw out an open invite for other people to hit me, I am now being targeted for playing the game the way the game allows me to. It makes no sense to me.

The way you worded it made it sound like someone with a 4* roster struggling to get to 900 or 1200 could inadvertently go against the etiquette and have a big group of people pushing him down, but that's really not the reality.  To really get "extra focused" you need to have a 5* roster and really be making waves with some of the big time scorers that have a lot of friends.

I think there is a disconnect between players who get hit a couple times by a 5* roster and believe they are being targeted, and actual suppressing/enforcing that happens among the 5* rosters that are mostly all on Line.  For example, this season on at least three occasions I've seen a big 500+ roster with over 1500 points disappear from my T20 as they dump back down to suppress other 5* rosters.  I've seen screenshots of -300+ points all from the same person....people getting hit dozens of times.  THAT'S "extra focus"  THAT is what happens when you really don't play nice.  Getting hit a couple times as you push for 900 is inconsequential by comparison and doesn't represent some massive flaw in PvP mechanics.

jamesh

Quebbster said:

jamesh said:

Is this whole vendetta thing mostly limited to 5* players?  I'm firmly in the 4* tier, and I don't really remember seeing names repeated often enough to make an impression.  I imagine if the game is only matching you against other 5* players, that cuts down the set of available targets massively.

I also can't remember the last time I got 75 points for a match.  I might get 60+ for my first match if I miss the seed teams, but that's about it.  I guess the game finds more people with similar roster strength closer to my current score?

Pretty much, yeah. There aren't that many fivestar players in the game, so you tend to remember who hit you...

That sounds really unhealthy, and doesn't make me look forward to champing any 5* characters.  Which is kind of ironic, since it sounds like the fix for a lot of these problems would be to have more players at that level.

Calnexin

jamesh said:

That sounds really unhealthy, and doesn't make me look forward to champing any 5* characters.  Which is kind of ironic, since it sounds like the fix for a lot of these problems would be to have more players at that level.

It's only ironic on its face.  If you have more 5* characters you become part of that etiquette group, but you're largely immune to most of the player base, at least during your climb.  Until you break MMR and start becoming worth big points, no 4* player wants to hit double champ 5*s.

PenniesForEveryone

Calnexin said:

jamesh said:

That sounds really unhealthy, and doesn't make me look forward to champing any 5* characters.  Which is kind of ironic, since it sounds like the fix for a lot of these problems would be to have more players at that level.

It's only ironic on its face.  If you have more 5* characters you become part of that etiquette group, but you're largely immune to most of the player base, at least during your climb.  Until you break MMR and start becoming worth big points, no 4* player wants to hit double champ 5*s.

It's even crazier at the 550 level.  It's almost exclusively other 550 rosters that can even queue you, so everyone knows everyone and mostly just leaves each other alone.  Not necessarily to be nice or due to etiquette, but just because feuding is futile and pointless when there are so many other dual champed 5* "cupcakes" worth just as many points out there.

tiomono

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

That just sounds like you reworded what I said. If I hit someone then they throw out an open invite for other people to hit me, I am now being targeted for playing the game the way the game allows me to. It makes no sense to me.

The way you worded it made it sound like someone with a 4* roster struggling to get to 900 or 1200 could inadvertently go against the etiquette and have a big group of people pushing him down, but that's really not the reality.  To really get "extra focused" you need to have a 5* roster and really be making waves with some of the big time scorers that have a lot of friends.

I think there is a disconnect between players who get hit a couple times by a 5* roster and believe they are being targeted, and actual suppressing/enforcing that happens among the 5* rosters that are mostly all on Line.  For example, this season on at least three occasions I've seen a big 500+ roster with over 1500 points disappear from my T20 as they dump back down to suppress other 5* rosters.  I've seen screenshots of -300+ points all from the same person....people getting hit dozens of times.  THAT'S "extra focus"  THAT is what happens when you really don't play nice.  Getting hit a couple times as you push for 900 is inconsequential by comparison and doesn't represent some massive flaw in PvP mechanics.

You frequently say mostly on line. Which means it does take place outside of that occasionally.
 So a player not using line, progressing and playing the way the game is designed to be played can and will get suppressed or focused by larger groups of people for stepping on someone's toes in a PvP environment.

What does it take to get focused? Being a dual 5* player that may double or triple the same people every event through the course of a season? They are not using line or even looking at opponent names. They are looking at point values and if the team looks like they can beat it because that is how the game mode is set up.

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

Does that sound fair or fun for simply playing the game in the way it is presented?

Spudgutter

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

That just sounds like you reworded what I said. If I hit someone then they throw out an open invite for other people to hit me, I am now being targeted for playing the game the way the game allows me to. It makes no sense to me.

The way you worded it made it sound like someone with a 4* roster struggling to get to 900 or 1200 could inadvertently go against the etiquette and have a big group of people pushing him down, but that's really not the reality.  To really get "extra focused" you need to have a 5* roster and really be making waves with some of the big time scorers that have a lot of friends.

I think there is a disconnect between players who get hit a couple times by a 5* roster and believe they are being targeted, and actual suppressing/enforcing that happens among the 5* rosters that are mostly all on Line.  For example, this season on at least three occasions I've seen a big 500+ roster with over 1500 points disappear from my T20 as they dump back down to suppress other 5* rosters.  I've seen screenshots of -300+ points all from the same person....people getting hit dozens of times.  THAT'S "extra focus"  THAT is what happens when you really don't play nice.  Getting hit a couple times as you push for 900 is inconsequential by comparison and doesn't represent some massive flaw in PvP mechanics.

You frequently say mostly on line. Which means it does take place outside of that occasionally.
 So a player not using line, progressing and playing the way the game is designed to be played can and will get suppressed or focused by larger groups of people for stepping on someone's toes in a PvP environment.

What does it take to get focused? Being a dual 5* player that may double or triple the same people every event through the course of a season? They are not using line or even looking at opponent names. They are looking at point values and if the team looks like they can beat it because that is how the game mode is set up.

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

Does that sound fair or fun for simply playing the game in the way it is presented?

I have an alliance mate who received a line message from another player, because he dared to hop in the last few minutes and pushed the other guy out of top 1, 2, 5 or whatever it was.  Saying everyone was going to be chasing him and suppressing him the next event.  

Saying that people don't get targeted is disingenuous.  Its the double edge of the sword.  On the one hand, outside communications allow people to climb higher, with much less hassle.  On the other, people tend to get a sense of entitlement after awhile.  And by condoning slightly bad behavior, its a slippery slope until we see a post like OP.

While i dont speak for everyone, neither does anyone else, so take what you hear from people on the forum with a grain of salt.  But ask yourself this:  if it was all sunshine and lollipops, why do we see posts like this every couple of months?

Calnexin

tiomono said:

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

I don't know how often it happens, but it definitely does (or at least has).  I've seen that conversation on this forum.

tiomono

Spudgutter said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

tiomono said:

scottee said:

I never use Line. I know I benefit from those who climb high, as it puts more points in the slice. You can't find 75 point fights if someone hasn't rushed out to that big of a lead ahead of you and been unshielded so you can queue them. So I'm always thankful for the climbers.

That said, I don't hit big targets right away, partially our of etiquette, but mostly out of wanting to climb as quickly as possible. If I hit someone right away, or more than once in a short period, of course I'd expect them to be upset. And if they're climbing, their alliance probably is too, and I don't want them slamming me for multiple losses. So I wait on queues at least one match simply out of self-preservation.

If there's no other choice, I'll eventually take the points. But hitting people too quickly makes it harder to climb in actuality, so I don't do it.

I don't coordinate in chats. This is just what I've figured out of the system over the years.

According to the post above you the etiquette of line players shouldn't affect you. It only affects people in a particular line room.

Which in reality means if you are not using line and unintentionally do what they deem bad you get extra focused and pushed down harder. If you continually do this they will get get larger than 20 people alliances with truces to push you down, and tell you you have no etiquette, and it would be better for everyone if you just do it their way.

Bottom line for me will always be as long as the game allows it and there no rules from the devs against certain behavior in game, if it gets you to your goal do it. Ignore other people that try to force their vision of the game on you. 

Just play the game the way that gets you to your goal, if that's on line good for you, if it's not on line good for you too. It just gets silly when one side goes out of their way to hunt down specific people to make some kind of point.

No, that's not really how it works.  The big time scorers are all rocking 5*s and hit 1200 with ease.  If you hit a 5* roster on your climb to 900 they might post a message "hey, anyone climbing hit tiomono for me" and you might get a couple -10s or -20s from some larger rosters, but that's about it.  The real etiquette enforcing takes place between people on Line where a "sniper" hits some big scorer for -75 and then their enforcers dump points (by intentionally losing) to get lower than the sniper and then hit the sniper over and over to make life hard for them.  But 9 times out of 10 both parties are on Line and understand what is happening.

That just sounds like you reworded what I said. If I hit someone then they throw out an open invite for other people to hit me, I am now being targeted for playing the game the way the game allows me to. It makes no sense to me.

The way you worded it made it sound like someone with a 4* roster struggling to get to 900 or 1200 could inadvertently go against the etiquette and have a big group of people pushing him down, but that's really not the reality.  To really get "extra focused" you need to have a 5* roster and really be making waves with some of the big time scorers that have a lot of friends.

I think there is a disconnect between players who get hit a couple times by a 5* roster and believe they are being targeted, and actual suppressing/enforcing that happens among the 5* rosters that are mostly all on Line.  For example, this season on at least three occasions I've seen a big 500+ roster with over 1500 points disappear from my T20 as they dump back down to suppress other 5* rosters.  I've seen screenshots of -300+ points all from the same person....people getting hit dozens of times.  THAT'S "extra focus"  THAT is what happens when you really don't play nice.  Getting hit a couple times as you push for 900 is inconsequential by comparison and doesn't represent some massive flaw in PvP mechanics.

You frequently say mostly on line. Which means it does take place outside of that occasionally.
 So a player not using line, progressing and playing the way the game is designed to be played can and will get suppressed or focused by larger groups of people for stepping on someone's toes in a PvP environment.

What does it take to get focused? Being a dual 5* player that may double or triple the same people every event through the course of a season? They are not using line or even looking at opponent names. They are looking at point values and if the team looks like they can beat it because that is how the game mode is set up.

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

Does that sound fair or fun for simply playing the game in the way it is presented?

I have an alliance mate who received a line message from another player, because he dared to hop in the last few minutes and pushed the other guy out of top 1, 2, 5 or whatever it was.  Saying everyone was going to be chasing him and suppressing him the next event.  

Saying that people don't get targeted is disingenuous.  Its the double edge of the sword.  On the one hand, outside communications allow people to climb higher, with much less hassle.  On the other, people tend to get a sense of entitlement after awhile.  And by condoning slightly bad behavior, its a slippery slope until we see a post like OP.

While i dont speak for everyone, neither does anyone else, so take what you hear from people on the forum with a grain of salt.  But ask yourself this:  if it was all sunshine and lollipops, why do we see posts like this every couple of months?

We need more lollipops. I'm fine with getting hit. I get irritated when people get targeted for playing a game within the actual rules of the game.

Basepuzzler

There are two different worlds of people trying to have a conversation here.  4* players aren’t getting suppressed, so don’t worry about it.  

There are very few 5* randoms.  More than there used to be, but for the most part someone in one of the line rooms that calls out a certain player will know of the person.  

The “enforcers” aren’t targeting randoms or late climbers.  If you are trying to climb past 1200 and are hitting hoppers someone might try to make you shield.  But again, that’s not a 4* player so there’s really nothing to worry about or discuss here.  

PenniesForEveryone

Calnexin said:

tiomono said:

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

I don't know how often it happens, but it definitely does (or at least has).  I've seen that conversation on this forum.

It's mostly just empty threats for several reasons....

1.)  People like to score a lot of point.  A LOT of points.  Actively suppressing people (especially dumping to do it) removes points from the shard and is actually counter to their goals.

2.)  MMR is broken and does a really "good" job of preventing 5* players from really even being able to beat up on a 4* roster who isn't following the established "etiquette".  For example - if a 5* roster wants to target a 4* player to really give them a hard time they have to either wait until the 4* roster has a high enough score to break MMR (typically over 900) or break MMR themselves (typically closer to 1200) so that they can queue the 4*, then dump enough points (at least 300) to get low enough so that the hit on the 4* lands for more than a -7, and then climb back up to break MMR and do it again.  Very few people have the time/patience/energy for this.

3.)  People that aren't on Line rarely have any idea what they have done "wrong" and so enforcing them doesn't even have the desired effect.

Most of the discussion on the topic that has happened on the forums in the past are from the days of cupcakes and 3* rosters putting up 2k+ scores.  Now that they have fixed defensive teams and really limited the accessibility of 5* grills to other 5* rosters, the vast majority of the hand-holding and "etiquette" that takes place is done among 5* rosters, and specifically the ones that are on Line.

tiomono

PenniesForEveryone said:

Calnexin said:

tiomono said:

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

I don't know how often it happens, but it definitely does (or at least has).  I've seen that conversation on this forum.

It's mostly just empty threats for several reasons....

1.)  People like to score a lot of point.  A LOT of points.  Actively suppressing people (especially dumping to do it) removes points from the shard and is actually counter to their goals.

2.)  MMR is broken and does a really "good" job of preventing 5* players from really even being able to beat up on a 4* roster who isn't following the established "etiquette".  For example - if a 5* roster wants to target a 4* player to really give them a hard time they have to either wait until the 4* roster has a high enough score to break MMR (typically over 900) or break MMR themselves (typically closer to 1200) so that they can queue the 4*, then dump enough points (at least 300) to get low enough so that the hit on the 4* lands for more than a -7, and then climb back up to break MMR and do it again.  Very few people have the time/patience/energy for this.

3.)  People that aren't on Line rarely have any idea what they have done "wrong" and so enforcing them doesn't even have the desired effect.

Most of the discussion on the topic that has happened on the forums in the past are from the days of cupcakes and 3* rosters putting up 2k+ scores.  Now that they have fixed defensive teams and really limited the accessibility of 5* grills to other 5* rosters, the vast majority of the hand-holding and "etiquette" that takes place is done among 5* rosters, and specifically the ones that are on Line.

Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?

I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted?

cyineedsn

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

Calnexin said:

tiomono said:

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

I don't know how often it happens, but it definitely does (or at least has).  I've seen that conversation on this forum.

It's mostly just empty threats for several reasons....

1.)  People like to score a lot of point.  A LOT of points.  Actively suppressing people (especially dumping to do it) removes points from the shard and is actually counter to their goals.

2.)  MMR is broken and does a really "good" job of preventing 5* players from really even being able to beat up on a 4* roster who isn't following the established "etiquette".  For example - if a 5* roster wants to target a 4* player to really give them a hard time they have to either wait until the 4* roster has a high enough score to break MMR (typically over 900) or break MMR themselves (typically closer to 1200) so that they can queue the 4*, then dump enough points (at least 300) to get low enough so that the hit on the 4* lands for more than a -7, and then climb back up to break MMR and do it again.  Very few people have the time/patience/energy for this.

3.)  People that aren't on Line rarely have any idea what they have done "wrong" and so enforcing them doesn't even have the desired effect.

Most of the discussion on the topic that has happened on the forums in the past are from the days of cupcakes and 3* rosters putting up 2k+ scores.  Now that they have fixed defensive teams and really limited the accessibility of 5* grills to other 5* rosters, the vast majority of the hand-holding and "etiquette" that takes place is done among 5* rosters, and specifically the ones that are on Line.

Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?

I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted?

Will people on line notice such a player and say "argh hit that guy for me!"? Sure.

Will groups of "enforcers" go out of their way to lurk low or dump points to go target and hunt such a player? No, you'd actually have to do alot more to motivate people to go out of their way to try to screw with you.

They'll be hit by anyone late climbing, who will say oh I remember that name, sure I'll hit him. But in all honestly, those same late climbers are just going to rampage and hit anyone who they don't consider a friend anyway, so odds are that non-line dual 5* player is going to get hit either way.

tiomono

cyineedsn said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

Calnexin said:

tiomono said:

Now are they going to get a reputation with a community they may not even be aware exists and get targeted frequently for not playing by that communities rules which are not an actual part of the game but is an outside ruleset enforced by larger groups of players?

I don't know how often it happens, but it definitely does (or at least has).  I've seen that conversation on this forum.

It's mostly just empty threats for several reasons....

1.)  People like to score a lot of point.  A LOT of points.  Actively suppressing people (especially dumping to do it) removes points from the shard and is actually counter to their goals.

2.)  MMR is broken and does a really "good" job of preventing 5* players from really even being able to beat up on a 4* roster who isn't following the established "etiquette".  For example - if a 5* roster wants to target a 4* player to really give them a hard time they have to either wait until the 4* roster has a high enough score to break MMR (typically over 900) or break MMR themselves (typically closer to 1200) so that they can queue the 4*, then dump enough points (at least 300) to get low enough so that the hit on the 4* lands for more than a -7, and then climb back up to break MMR and do it again.  Very few people have the time/patience/energy for this.

3.)  People that aren't on Line rarely have any idea what they have done "wrong" and so enforcing them doesn't even have the desired effect.

Most of the discussion on the topic that has happened on the forums in the past are from the days of cupcakes and 3* rosters putting up 2k+ scores.  Now that they have fixed defensive teams and really limited the accessibility of 5* grills to other 5* rosters, the vast majority of the hand-holding and "etiquette" that takes place is done among 5* rosters, and specifically the ones that are on Line.

Where did anyone even say this is 5* line players targeting 4* players?

I will ask again I suppose. Will a non line dual 5* player that routinely double or triples line players without realizing it or maybe not even aware of the line etiquette getting targeted?

Will people on line notice such a player and say "argh hit that guy for me!"? Sure.

Will groups of "enforcers" go out of their way to lurk low or dump points to go target and hunt such a player? No, you'd actually have to do alot more to motivate people to go out of their way to try to screw with you.

They'll be hit by anyone late climbing, who will say oh I remember that name, sure I'll hit him. But in all honestly, those same late climbers are just going to rampage and hit anyone who they don't consider a friend anyway, so odds are that non-line dual 5* player is going to get hit either way.

So then it's easier to understand the experience of a non line user. In most other forms of single player competition if a group of players cooperate to ensure they get the best rewards or to stop others from getting rewards it is frowned upon. So why is it ok here? Is it because mmr stinks? Is there another reason?

I would love for the devs to go back to the drawing board and try to change versus in a way that could improve upon our obviously broken and frustrating current system.